dalilama

Hi all,

I'm looking at a 1972 Cutlass Supreme convertible tomorrow. It's a 350 with A/C (nonworking), bench sets (cracks in vinyl), Can any give me some things to watch out for for this model year:

• Rust (The seller says there is none, but where are the bad spots I should look for?)
• Transmission (3-speed?)
• Interior issues?
• Electrical issues?
• etc...

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Gary M

What is the price? If it's high be more picky.Have it put on a rack and look under it for rear main seal leak (in my case it would have helped me negotiate a better price, turned out the rebuilt motor need rebuilding again). Look for rust under there or other leaks; gas brake fluid. Close the doors. if you have to slam them you may need hinges. The top should operate smoothly without stalling. If it does you may need to add fluid due to a leak or bad cylinders. Good luck and post pics for more advice if you don't buy it on the spot.

Octania

Your location is not cited, but even in Arizona, there is no car with NO RUST

It's only a question of how much rust. Inspect closely underneath, all the hard to reach places. Look for holes, or repaired holes, sealer over new patches, etc. Floor supports at edges and ends. The frame itself. Usually if the rust is flaky then it's bad enough to have a hole somewhere.

Since vision is a light based phenomenon, take a strong flashlight with you.

Gary M

Kelly Blue Book has a classic section to help determine value but you really need to inspect the car thoroughly to follow that price . Its a forty year old car so anything goes but they are popular and parts can be bought through online vendors but not cheap.

dalilama

He is listing it for $14,900. Pretty high from what I've seen around here, but I get the feeling he'll negotiate. 93K on the speedo, the engine has been rebuilt 8K miles ago.

Good idea on the rear seal - I had one of these go out on my 68 Montego.

Here's a pic of the outside - he says the paint is a bit rough but it looks OK in this pic. I'll post more tomorrow.

dalilama

It's been in the Chicagoland area for 17 years, but he claims he has never had it out in the rain :roll eyes: . I'll bring that flashlight!

Gary M

Take pics of anything under there that concerns you. Post them and if you can have a professional car inspector look it over. They know what to look for. My motor was rebuilt 8000 miles ago too but was not done right. Check the rear main seal for leaks.14000 may not be out of line depending on the condition of it. At that price I would pay a professional to look it over. I paid 35000.00 and had to put another 8000.00 in it because the motor was ruined.

dalilama

Yike! Sorry to hear that. I was considering getting a professional inspector or at least pay a mechanic to give it a whats-over. I think you just convinced me.

Gary M

Nice looking car. Don't let what I paid sway your decision. My car has an extensive restoration past. The car you are looking at appears to be very well taken care of. Is the paint original? The interior needs work but you can get the parts online or have it done at an upholstery shop....$ ..negotiate that into the price.

Gary M

The mechanic (if you know and trust him is a good route). Don't let me scare you away from it because it does look like it was cared for and not all rebuilds fail. Has he owned it for a long time? I would arrange the inspection as soon as possible because the pic looks so good someone else may jump on it. Be careful but don't miss the dance if it is in good shape.

dc2x4drvr

If the car has even seen the mid west forget about a main seal...look for hidden rust...pull up the carpet, run a magnet along the rear quarter panels, crawl underneath..

RetroRanger

Typical rust areas are the lower windshield /cowl area lower fr fenders and behind them, floors, rear quarter/ trunk drop offs, for extra points the rad support under/ around the battery is usually ugly as well! Lotsa olds out there for that price or less this one should be In good to great shape for the money if not negotiate or walk away

dalilama

It was repainted - probably 20 years ago. I think it was tan originally since the interior is saddle.

Gary M

Yes if you have your mechanic look at it and its up on the rack you will see a lot of areas under the car that rust will be a problem. poke them with an awl to see if it pops through. The magnet along the body will reveal any bondo also so don't be shy. Run it everywhere.

dalilama

I'm not sure he'll let me pull up the carpet, but I'll try. Good idea tho -

Gary M

Well the metal under the carpet is the same under the car so if its been repaired with putty you will see it from under the car. He will not let you yank the carpet but he should let you have it inspected.

classicmuscle442

As stated above check the exterior metal with magnet, empty trunk and check for patches, under car watch for undercoating covering previous repairs or just caked over holes. On convert check around windshield and cowl area, carefully check door gaps. Jambs should have brass rub plates to keep doors tight. Spend the time now and know what your buying. The good part of a convert is there are usually taken care of. Good luck, price is good.

midrange

If you can, pull out the jamb vents (will need a phillips screwdriver and flashlight) in the door jambs and take a look into the rear quarter area under/behind the back passenger armrests/panels.

I found alot of body work, including a big dent repair on my car this way, but not until after I had already bought the car.

Gary M

If the paint is not original and a bit rough that is another negotiation point to try. To paint a car these days it is not cheap. I checked to have mine stripped and painted it was approximately 12000.00. If you don't need it stripped that would be less but as with everything there is a price and it is figured into value. ask a shop what a paint job costs and consider it in your offer for the car.

dalilama

Good ideas - they just went on my inspection checklist. Thanks

Gary M

Excellent thought MIDRANGE. easy access and very informative. You will see if bondo is in there and if you just see surface rust you can use rust converter from Eastwood .com to stop it. You can look from the trunk to see the back half of the rear quarters and through the jamb vent for the front half. Make sure the back windows are up for this.

dalilama

Gary M, midrange, classicmuscle.442, Retroranger, dc2x4drvr, Octania -

Thanks for the great ideas and feedback. I'll post back after my inspection tomorrow and send a few pictures (especially if I notice anything "funny").

Gary M

I always say "trust but verify". Let him know you just want to see the condition of the car since it is 40 years old and he is not the original owner. Once you get all the details based on your inspection of what is needed on it you can easily negotiate the price.

joe_padavano

In my experience, sellers who say "no rust" usually mean "no rust visible at the moment". Unless the car is in original paint, be VERY suspicious of what's under a repaint.

jaunty75

While you're looking at the car, take a good, clear photo of the body cowl tag on the firewall under the hood and post it here. It can be decoded to indicated, among other things, what the car's original color(s) was(were).

Octania

Right...

"no rust" =

"No rust... holes big enough to throw a cat thru."

dalilama

OK - looked at the car yesterday. I took a bunch of pictures, but I still need to post then all. Wish I could post the file I put all of the info and photos in but it's way too big. Here's the rundown:

Looks good from the outside – paint is showing age when you get closer. Some cracks and touchups.

Body is straight and not too many imperfections.

Bench on driver’s side is split – as are both headrests.

Dash is OK but missing some of the trim.

Back seat is faded

Inspect Underside of car for rust & mods (start at back). Exhaust. Very little surface rust. Saw some oil on the brackets holding the transmission rear. Seemed to to be engine oil. Can’t tell if it’s a leak in the oil pan or somewhere else (yike - rear seal?). I'll get a mechanic to look as a contingency.

Exhaust looked in good shape – only small surface rust and very little pitting. Pictures:

Back-right underside.
From left underside towards trans

Look at rear bumper Looks good – very little pitting.
Open trunk and inspect. Surface rust in the trunk. No rust in wheel wells. Trunk molding needs replacement.

Surface rust near left wheel well on trunk surface. It looks like the original coating on the trunk.

Surface rust on the right side of the trunk floor. Floor was solid though.

Look down sides of car for waviness No real waviness – pretty straight with no obvious dents.

Open door and look at door jambs (bottom of doors & drain holes) for rust. Check for closure. Passenger side closed fine. Brass striker did it’s job. Drivers side closed but was loose.

Passenger side – some surface rust on the bottom. Metal present – no Bondo (magnet check)

Small (1/4 ") rust-through on passenger side door well near vent.

Drivers door badging – this and the VIN matched.

Drivers door bottom – no rust (visible at least).

Driver’s door well – no rust. I opened the vent with a Philips and no rust inside or any Bondo.

Drivers side showing loose striker plate. Door did not fit snug – this was probably why. Hinge seemed fine.

Inspect floor inside. Under the car

Could not pull up carpet – this is what the right underside looked like.

Check rocker panels Looked solid on both sides.

Inspect fenders and wells (look at rust and suspension)

Some rust getting through on the rear fender bottom. The magnet would barely stick to this – the first bit of Bondo I guess. About a 2" square.

Jot down VIN
Done -

Look low down front and look for dents on hood. Look at front bumper. Hood looked good – no rust and was solid. Front bumper was recently replaced and unfortunately it was put on with a big gap on the right side:

Open hood and look in engine bay. Fitment was pretty good.

Engine bay looked a little dirty dirty but not greatly so. Leaky valve covers. Wiring looked pretty good but 40 years old!

Rocket 350 – it supposedly was rebuilt about 18 years ago, and the new owner said he only put on about 8000 miles since then.

Brake booster looked like it was never touched (but brakes worked OK during the test drive later).

A/C did not work – No visible issues…could be anything.

Leaky valve covers – not really bad though.
Check air filter / fluids (Oil/Trans/Brake/Washer/Rad overflow)

Air Filter – New
Engine Oil – clear
Trans – a little yellowish and a bit smelly. Maybe needs a flush and filter change. – Transmission shifted OK on test drive.
Rad overflow – good.
Washer – worked
Brake Fluid- up to right level
Check Battery & tray
Check Radiator for leaks.
Battery was fairly new – battery tray had no rust.
No visible leaks from Rad.
Look at glass outside & inside. Check for rust around windshield-body. A bit of rust found on drivers side on base of windshield. Also a chip in the windshield.

Also top of windshield was very worm where the top connects:

Open doors and check window operation.
All windows worked well – the driver’s side fit well. The passenger side had a small gap.

Windshield had a chip:

Operate convertible top and look for stalling - Top is a swiss cheese mess and does not work at all. Hit the switch and nothing happens. He said he was quoted $2,500 to fix it so he never did and just stayed out of the rain.

Check tires for age and tread depth. Tires had about 30% of the tread left.
Look at seats and interior. Note condition of seats, floor, dash, and gauges.
- Radio
- Horn
- Turn signals
- Shifter
- Steering wheel Interior pix:


Bench seat would not slide back – was stuck at most forward position on passenger side - probably a cable

Carpet was not torn but dirty and faded. All seat covers needed to be replaced.

Passenger side armrest – seemed like the wrong color.

Driver’s side armrest – totally gone.

Dash trim missing all around.

Loose piece of dash and “Mystery Switch” (owner did not know what this switch did).


Radio did not work – was newer not original.
- Horn - worked
- Turn signals – Worked but the dash indicator for the right side was out.
- Shifter – lined up correctly and shifted easily (column shift). I did notice the collar was split:

- Steering wheel – was cocked to the left a bit and not lined up with the front wheels.


Glove box worked OK – but had no rear. May have been cut to get to radio. This is not rust but is aged insulation.
Start car and check for:
- Idle
- Sound (knocking)
- Air Cond
- Heat
- Defrost - Idle (Idled a bit rough – seemed like the carb needed cleaning or an overhaul)
- Sound (knocking) – No knocking or weird noises.
- Air Cond – Did not work at all.
- Heat Defrost – Worked OK – but mechanism was not always working.
- Lights – low beams OK – High beam switch was loose from floor and not connected.

Shift into drive and attempt to accelerate while braking. Listen to engine. Check for smoking in rear when racing engine. Engine did not stall. Did not jump or rattle when put into gear. No smoke.

Drive Car. Notes:
- No speedometer vibration or accuracy issues. Gas gauge appeared to work.
- Car shifted into gear with no issues
- Car ran and accelerated very well.
- Needed alignment – drifted to left.
- Brakes pulled a biut to the left, but worked well
- Power steering worked well, but felt very loose. Normal for these?
- Speedo worked OK

Bottom line is it's got a pretty solid body (hardly any rust). Engine runs and accelerates good, but the oil presence on the tranny bracket is disturbing. We talked and came up with a potential sale price that was contingent on a clean bill of health on the oil thing. We may also potentially split the cost of the work (with my half deducted from the sale price).

Thoughts?