RagTopMan14

Hello. Im looking to buy a 1969 Cutlass Convertible but need three sets of seat belts in the back seat. Is this possible? Was it an option?

mfpm7232

Hi Ragtopman and welcome to the forum.

I'm not exactly certain if 3 sets of belts in the back was standard or an option but my 69 convertible has 3 sets of belts out back.

Good luck in your hunt for a convertible.

RagTopMan14

Thanks for the reply Mark. Im guessing your car had them already when you purchased it. Great looking ride man!

wmachine

2 in the front and 3 in the rear were standard equipment.

Jamesbo

Pull the rear seat to make sure they're not stuff under it

Welcome aboard

RagTopMan14

Thanks Kurt. The gentlemen I am looking to buy the car from says he only has two sets in the back. Is it safe to *** U Me the middle one may have been removed at some point?

RagTopMan14

James. I just posted a reply to Kurt before I saw your post appear. Thats a good idea. If it was a standard option hopefully its there tucked away. Thank you.

jaunty75

These are not easy to remove as the bolts are very tight and you often need an impact wrench to loosen them. I'm not sure why someone would remove only one (I'm presuming the center) set of belts, anyway. If you don't want them cluttering up the look of the rear seat, just push them down behind the seat. As Jamesbo says, the first thing to do is just pull the rear seat and see if they're not just stuffed under there or have fallen back under there over time because they were never used. Or you might just stick your hand down between the seat back and seat bottom and see if you can't feel them down there. You might also find some 1969 pennies or dimes and who knows what other treasures if the rear seat hasn't been out of the car in 45 years.

If they're really not there, given that three sets of belts were available originally, it's likely the mounting points are still there, and all you would need to do is buy a used set or an aftermarket new set and bolt them in.

I learned all about rear seat belts on my '67 Delta 88 because a previous owner, who apparently REALLY didn't like seat belts, had taken a pair of shears and had just cut off all the rear belts at the mounting points. So when I removed the rear seat, I had nothing but little seat belt stubs mounted to the mounting holes. So I needed to remove all the bolts (which is how I came to know that an impact wrench REALLY helps), and I put in some nice quality, used GM belts that I bought on ebay and I thought matched well and looked almost original. You can see them in the photo below. (As I recall, they were from a Chevy originally, but don't tell anyone I put Chevy parts in my Oldsmobile!)

The car had only two sets out mounting holes in the rear, so I have only two sets of belts back there.

RagTopMan14

Wow. Thats great news! Thanks Janty75. I have 3 sons from 11 to 6. They will get a kick out of this car. I will check it out. Looks like someone will be the proud new owner of 69 Convertible!

jaunty75

A.M. or P.M.? How many sons do you have at other times during the day?


When you get this car, post some photos of it!

RagTopMan14

Ha! Funny man...dont quit your day job.

Will post some pics when I get it. Looking forward to finally getting my rag top!

My dad had a 76' Cutlass Supreme with T-Tops back in the day. Black with white interior, swivel front bucket seats. I loved that car as a kid. Thats probably why I love convertibles!

Fun71

I think the center belts use the inner mounts for the other belts, meaning there are only four mounting points for the six belts.

oldcutlass

Either way you can install a 3rd if necessary.

jaunty75

I wondered about this. But that would mean TWO seat belts attached to two of the four bolts, which would mean double the stress on those bolts if the seats were all occupied and there were an accident. I wondered if the belts would actually be designed this way.

This was five years ago now that I did the replacement, and I'm trying to recall, but I don't remember that there were three sets (six total) of snipped-off seat belts when I removed the seat. I think if there were, I would have gone ahead and installed three sets of belts across the back instead of two.


Below is the dealer specs book page for the '67 Delta 88. First note the Standard Equipment along the left side. No mention of seat belts whatsoever. This surprises me as I would have thought at least front seat belts were required by law by 1967. But maybe not.

More relevant to the conversation here, look further down the left side under Factory-Installed Options. Seat belts are mentioned here, with the first being "Deluxe Front and Rear" for all of $6.32. This implies that there was a "standard" seat belt, and if you look at the top of the next column, there were shoulder belts available to match either "standard" or "deluxe" seat belts. So I'm assuming that "standard" seat belts were standard equipment, even though they're not listed.

Now look at the bottom of the first column. Center rear belts, standard or deluxe, were extra-cost options. I take this to mean that you could have ordered rear belts, but the base configuration was only two belts with the third one an extra check box on the order form. So my car could very well had only two sets of rear belts as it came from the factory, and perhaps if it had been ordered with the center belt, there would be three sets of anchor points there today?

jaunty75

But you have to do it right. You can't just drill a hole through the floor pan, stick a bolt through it, put a nut on the other side, and tighten it up. The floor pan metal is too thin and thus not strong enough to support the load and prevent the seat belt bolt from pulling out in the event of an accident. Also, factory seat belts do not use a removable nut on the bolt, anyway. They screw into a threaded hole, and the floor sheet metal is too thin to provide enough threads to make for a strong attachment.

The factory mounting points are actually thick, wide pieces of metal welded to the underside of the floor with drilled and tapped holes in them. This makes for a much stronger anchor point as there are more threads in the bolt hole, and the load is spread over a larger area of the floor pan sheet metal as well.

Any aftermarket belts installed into a car that is not prepped for them would have to take account of this lack of a strong mounting point, and weld nuts would have to be attached in the correct locations.

RagTopMan14

Interesting. I guess the best way is to pull the seat out and see..

RagTopMan14

I have only seen shifters in the center by the console. Was this an option for a non S model?

jaunty75

Not sure what you mean here. A column-shift three-speed was the base transmission for all Cutlass lines in 1969.

According to the '69 dealer specs book, all kinds of options were available. For the Supreme, you could have gotten a three-speed floor shift with Hurst shifter, two four-speed floor shift with Hurst shifter, one wide ratio and one close ratio, and, of course, an automatic, the Turbo Hydra-matic 350.

The Cutlass Supreme was available only with V-8 engines, and the above were the only transmissions offered. The Cutlass S and base versions could also have been had with L-6 engines or lower HP V-8s, so one additional transmission was offered, the two-speed automatic Jetaway with (I assume) column shifter.

jaunty75

I should amend what I said above. While the factory installation included a large nut welded to the underside of the floor, aftermarket seat belt kits often include a large washer that you put on the underside of the floor, and then a nut holds the bold in place. The large washer spreads out the load, thus making it less likely the bolt will just pull out of the floor in the event of an accident. So, as oldcutlass says, you should be able to install a third seat belt set in the back seat, even if there was never one there originally and no mounting points are there.

Here's a typical aftermarket kit.

oldcutlass

I've used doubler plates bigger than the washers pictured above, you can weld a nut on the back of the one below the floor. It really isn't that complicated.

RagTopMan14

Thanks for the education. I've been trying to do some research but I haven't seen any pics online with it on the column. I really appreciate all the information you have given. I'm going to see the car in person next weekend.

Fun71

Yes, that is the way it was designed. Here's a picture of my car way back when with the back seats out. You can clearly see the center belts are shared with the outer belt anchors:

PC230030_zpsf63cd72d.jpg

jaunty75

Well there you go. Answers the question. Thanks.

RagTopMan14

Perfect!! Thanks very much for helping the newbie!

joe_padavano

Coming into this thread late (and it's already been answered), but for the 1969 model year, federal law REQUIRED seat belts for every advertised seating position. This was not negotiable. A 1969 Cutlass with bucket seats was required by law to come from the factory with five sets of seat belts, one for each bucket seat front and three sets on the back seat. What typically happens is that some or all of the belts have gotten pushed back under the seat cushion over the years.

And as for a single mounting bolt taking the stress of multiple belts, simply look at the belt arrangement for a front bench seat. The 68-72 cars with the separate shoulder belts and bench seats have THREE belts held by each of the inboard mounting bolts at the floor, the inboard end of the shoulder belt and half of the lap belts for the outboard and center passengers.

RagTopMan14

That's great info. Thanks Joe.