seanm12

This is a 67 Cutlass Supreme Convertible. I pulled the seats and carpet to prepare to lift the body off to fix some frame rust and rust forward of the rockers on both sides. I've obviously also got floor rust to fix. This link goes to a slide show where I've got 30 pictures posted so I can share with family and friends not in our forum. I can post higher resolution of pics when needed.
http://webpages.charter.net/sean_stu...5_1_car_floor/

If you click on the picture something should appear to make it full screen. It doesn't work in IE8 but works in some other browsers.

If you know of a post already here that will help me please reply with a link. I've searched and got some but could have missed some.

The first few pics are from something I built from some lumber to get the doors off myself and a way to move them around the garage and not worry about them tipping over. If anyone wants to know more about that I figured out a few wrong ways before I got to something that works better and am glad to share details of my attempts. I also posted a pic of the Harbor Freight electric scraper tool which has been quite handy for chipping out out old seam sealer and the passenger side stuff, probably held in there by antifreeze from the former leaking heater core. $30 with the coupon, I recommend it.

The pile of carpet that came out could pass for a creature from the TV show "The Strain"

I've got a few noob questions:
1. For removing the body from the frame - I need some tips on making holes in the trunk to get to the captured nuts for the mounts by the bumper to soak them with PB Blaster. I tried drilling some holes but don't see the captured nuts. I could easily cut out too much and want to avoid doing that.
2. For the car seat braces - Should I take measurements for where they are now for help welding them on the replacement floors?
3. For the rust on the firewall - I need some tips on determining where to cut things when I get to that point. If poking with a flat blade screwdriver with a little force doesn't go through maybe cut about an inch above where it did go through?
4. I am within driving distance to The Parts Place so buying from there will save me shipping costs. For a 67 Cutlass Supreme convertible and floor sheet metal from there, any experience you want to share, good or bad?
5. Galvanized panels in back by the window cranks - Those look to have some sort of red paint on them, not rust. Anyone know what those are for?

CopperCutlass - Thanks for heading out to my home a few weeks back and giving me your tips and advice. I really appreciate it! Be warned at some point later I'll be asking you to visit again

coppercutlass

Alright i'll try to answer them in order as best as i can. Hopefully others chime in too as im a firm believer in having options in technique.

1. I cut square sections out. Chances are the bolts will just snap. Here is the kicker. You have to try to bust them loose with an impact before you got cutting things out. I see nothing wrong with getting pb blaster through the top but essentially if you can avoid cutting holes avoid them , but it is a double edged sword because on one hand they can snap with out the pb blaster but if they come out you avoided extra work.

2. I dont like to cut braces out if i dont need to . Personally i would leave the braces in and drill all the spot welds and pull the floor out leaving the braces. Now You can do the individual pieces or the one huge big complete piece. If you get the one big piece i would drill the braces out and just use the pan. if you use the correct spot weld cutter you avoid drilling through. This is if your braces are in good shape and if you choose to do it that way. I would much rather retain the original braces in the correct location . I have not done braces on a car this old but in the shop (body) if i get a car where i replace a panel and the new one came with braces i will retain the original if its not crumpled up and take the brace off of the new panel and weld the new panel to the original braces. .

3. On the fire wall cut until you hit good steel you can weld on. I dont like cutting more than i need personally.

4. I have bought from the parts place not bad people to deal with in person.

5. i think that might be specific to convertibles ?

steverw

Is it possible to cut the body bolts from under the car with a sawzall...not sure if I spelled that right.
Yes measure the seat brace locations, easy enough to do. As Copper said cut the floors until you have good metal, no need to go any further unless the new pan is just an inch or so longer than the cut, then i might just cut it to fit the pan. I read if your doing a complete one piece floor pan, it easier with the body off.
Steve
My floor pans came from TAMRAZ then look nice.

Run to Rund

I am afraid you will be chasing rust and rust-thinned panels for a long time, lots of work. You might consider starting with an almost rust free desert southwest body or car.

seanm12

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm going to do a few responses so I can put more than 5 pictures in. The stuff I used to make the web page slide show reduces the quality and resolution of the pictures.

I decided to go for cutting a hole and hope the bolt will come out. I plan to hit this with PB blaster for several days, and work it gently with a wrench, no impact. I got some rubber plugs 1-5/8" to fill these holes in later, in the last pic. I used a 1.5" hole saw. I didn't do great with lining up the hole above with the bolt below, but the hole is good enough to get me a enough access to put PB Blaster on the caged nut. I might try to get fancy and hit the bolt with the TIG torch to put some focused heat on it I included the tape measure from the trunk latch and drew a red dot where the caged nut actually is in case anyone else wants to figure out where the holes should be drilled.

seanm12

I cut out the top layer of sheet metal to get to this mount inside. There's a little bump in the floor that lines up with this mount. Why did the trunk have 2 similar bumps on each side that were nowhere near the mount?

seanm12

With the tips you guys sent me I've got some ideas on the seat braces. I do think the braces are good to use again, but I do think the floor is bad enough that I'll need to transfer the braces. There are 3 studs and 1 threaded hole that goes into the floor brace underneath, so as long as I keep that brace hole in place that will give me 1 solid reference point. There is a straight line from the outer seat belt hole to the rear seat brace attachments, so with using those things I can put the seat in to line things up. I'm also thinking if I cut out enough of the old floor in 1 piece to keep the braces in place I can set it on the new floor, drill some holes in the top and draw some marks on the new floor to line things up. I would still put the seat in after tacking things to make sure they are in the right place.

I'm thinking I may want to do 2 halves for the floor, so I've got seat braces from 1 side as a reference while I work on the other side. I also think for my skill level I'll do better at lining up half a car floor than than an entire floor. I know this means more welding, but feel free to point out other factors I'm not thinking of.

Run to Rund - Thanks for the advice, but going after another car or body isn't really an option for me.

seanm12

More pics in a slide show - http://webpages.charter.net/sean_stuff/2015_2/ . What I've done in these pics:

• Dropped the gas tank. 2 gallons left in there I gotta figure out how to dispose.
• Disconnected the parking brake cable. I used a hose clamp inside the car to collapse fingers while turning the outside with a wrench and pulling the cable.
• Took out the brake pedal.
• Pushed rubber plugs for wiring from the trunk that goes to bumper mounted lights down. I used a heat gun to soften the rubber.
• Disconnected the heater hose at the back of the engine and a ground strap.
• Disconnected the carb link and the plug for the switch pitch transmission.
• Emptied the master cylinder, disconnected brake lines and wrapped the ends.
• Disconnected steering at the rag joint.
• Disconnected column shift link.
• Removed the master cylinder and brake booster.
• Took a wrench to the body mounts.
• The good part - no caged nuts are spinning inside so far.
• For the 4 in front the outer ones snapped and the inner ones came out intact.
• For the 2 in the trunk one came out and the other snapped.
• I didn't go after the ones inside the cabin. I'll be grinding whatever is left of the captured nuts for those.

I need to get some metal to brace the door openings. I'm thinking a piece of angle iron at the hinges and under the striker, angle iron between all 3, and angle iron from 1 side to the other. Any tips on bracing the doors?

There's some rust that's inside the body forward of the rocker panels. I want to mention another link I was fortunate to find that shows 4-5 parts of metal sandwiched together that I'll be going after before I work on floors. The information at Squid's Fab Shop provides a super detailed explanation of what I'll need to repair here - http://www.squidsfabshop.com/bodyw2/GTObody2.php
I sent Squid (Dave) an e-mail saying HUGE thanks. There's a lot of good information there!

Rocketowner

Check Cinncinatti craigslist. There's 2 listed. One is $1000, and the other s $2900! Both look solid. Might be the best and easiest way to go. Good luck

coppercutlass

Do people really give up that easy geez. Not to be abrasive but some guys rather fix what the have then get another one to work with. My 72 cutlass started out as a midwest rust bucket that needed floors , quarters , fenders , there was not a panel on the whole car that did not have some form of rust on it. I dont think his 67 is as bad as my 72 was it needs work but i think sean has enough skill to tackle the project from what i have seen already.

Rocketowner

Please excuse my above post,I had your post mixed up with someone else's that was looking to buy a 4 dr. '66-'67. Totally my mistake,Larry

seanm12

Rocketowner/Larry - Thanks for explaining that your post was meant for another thread.

Sean

seanm12

Anutter slide show. For this and the previous slide show links, if you point the mouse to the top right corner you can click on something to display the pictures full screen.
http://webpages.charter.net/sean_stuff/2015_3/

What got done here:

• Ground the driver side body mount bolt. What was left of the captured nut was thicker than I thought it would be.
• For the passenger side mount bolt I took the TIG torch to heat it up. I cooked some PB Blaster and then mushroomed the bolt, so I had to grind it. Woo hoo, got that bolt out!
• I ground the heads off the bolts behind the rear tires. With all the rot above those I don't think anything else could have een done there.
• I got some angle iron from a welder in town. I plan to V from the striker to each hinge and run 1 piece across from 1 side to the other. 1 piece is a little short.
• 4 pieces of angle iron with some 1/8" tacked in.
• I used the TIG as a very crude plasma cutter and blasted some holes for the hinge bolts. I don't have a drill press so this a lot easier than starting the holes with a drill.
• I drew circles around the strikers with a crayon to get a starting point when they go back in later.
• The PS striker was too stripped to come out. I welded a bolt to it. That will get it out!

seanm12

Part 1 because I need to get the body higher. Here's the link to the slide show - http://webpages.charter.net/sean_stu...rt1/index.html

The theory behind what I did:

• Raise the frame
• Disconnect frame from body
• Lower frame supporting the body similar to how a lift raises the body
• Theory met reality - I've got about 4 inches between frame and body. I need to get the body higher.

What was done in these pictures:

• Disconnected parking brake line from the frame
• Braced each door. Note they needed a bend.
• Welded a section of angle iron across
• Raised the frame as high as possible on jack stands
• Noticed enough rust under the trunk to build something to support it before lowering the frame
• Attached wood to wheel ramps to support the body
• Lowered the frame
• The front tipped down as that was the heavier part. I had a big teeter totter!
• I jacked up under the radiator support and added wood under the front crossmember, then the axle.

Next - rust repair in the trunk and underneath.

RandyS

If I were you, I would not go near that car with the type of cribbing you are using. Use some concrete blocks, or 4 x 4's-6's-8's, something very substantial. Those landscape timbers with the rounded sides look very scary and unstable to me. Don't want to loose a member cause their car fell on them. Just sayin........

lemoldsnut

I'm with Randy. Use something very stable and substantial. It isn't the car you worry about its you. safety is number 1

steverw

Rent a cherry picker if you dont have one, get 2 chains criscrossed across the two outer front seat beltbolts and 2 outer rear seatbelt bolts and lift the body off. I just did my 67 this way and it worked perfect. the cherry picker will be on the side of the car, so you can slide the frame out from the other side works great.
Steve

seanm12

Yeah, I will be replacing the landscape timbers with something square, concrete blocks and/or real 4x4s. It seemed OK when looking at things at the hardware store, but they will be replaced. I do have screws from each to the one beneath, so they aren't just stacked, but are also screwed together.

coppercutlass

hey sean i have concrete blocks DO NOT buy them . I'll bring them by saturday.

Here is how i had mine stacked up . The wood was the pallet from my snap on box when it was delivered. I cut it in half . I have a cherry picker if you wanna borrow it.




IN this one you can see how i had the cherry picker.

steverw

Again if you use 2 chains on crossed right front seat belt bolt to left rear seat belt bolt and left front to right rear seatbelt bolt, cherry picker from the side, its so easy. Slide the frame out from the opposite side. I did have my wheels on dollies. It was rearend heavy but we blocked it up, rolled the frame out the other side. then i put a cross beam under just in front of the wheel wells until I got it hooked up to the rotisserie. You can lift it pretty high with the hoist and block it as you need it. This is assuming your seatbelt attachment points are still strong and not rusted out. Doing it this way you dont have blocks in the way of rolling the frame out.
Steve

coppercutlass

I used 2 cherry pickers. The one infront I used 2 chains on a common hoop with hooks on the front mounts, then I lifted the rear from the trunk latch with a strap. I opted not to pull the frame out as my repairs where on the frame so I left it over the frame.

seanm12

CopperCutlass - HUGE thanks for offering those concrete blocks! I was pondering asking you if you had something you weren't using for a while I could borrow. I gotta warn you getting time to work on my car comes and goes, so I may need them for a while. You want a cash deposit? I can get access to an engine hoist.

Steverw - Thanks for your suggestions, but I'm a little light on dollies, a rotisserie, and enough garage space to put the frame next to the body. Up is the only direction where I've got room.

coppercutlass

Sean The blocks are just sitting along my fence. I was not about to throw them away you can use em as long as you need no cash needed.

rcktdoc

I have a 67 conv body, plus many rust free, or already had minor rust repaired sheetmetal,came from california,Im just up the road in Harvard if your interested. You can do everything with one cherry picker if you use your head and for under 100.00 you can make a wooden rack that will let you have more access and much safer than stacking concrete blocks. 224-234-3860

Greg

seanm12

Greg - Thanks, but I can't work with doing a body transplant with my garage situation.

Made a bit of progress cutting out rust and putting in good metal. Here's a link to pictures - http://webpages.charter.net/sean_stu..._brace_repair/

• There's a patch like this on both sides of the trunk. Here's what I saw on the passenger side. It's air ducting flattened out that was riveted in.
• Pictures from the wheel wheel and underneath.
• I started with a spot weld bit that's round with teeth, and cut through too far in a few spots. I also cut too deep into the braces in a few places. CooperCutlass gave me another type of spot welder, and I did a lot better with that. Thanks!
• 2 patches to go in.
• I welded up holes and slots I accidentally cut in the gas tank brace
• There's a pic of what I cut out.

I got the trunk repair panels that have the body brace spot welded underneath. Next is chipping away undercoating and working on that, drivers side first. There's less rust on the drivers side, probably because this is a limited-slip rear end, less stuff kicked up from the tire.

coppercutlass

I LIKE the brace repair it looks great.

seanm12

Copper - Thanks for the reply.

I twisted my darn ankle and sprained it so the car work has to wait a bit. I've posted some pictures of rust at the rear of the drivers side wheel well, and the rust in the trunk by the frame-to-body mount. I've got the trunk repair patch panels and am quite pleased they make those. I pushed a screw through to help orient things from both sides. On the 1st picture note below the red arrow the sheet metal has a rectangular shape below. I'm thinking this isn't what the outer wheel house looked like from GM, and since I've got rust to fix I want to make it look closer to original. Could someone post a reply with a picture of the back parts of the inner and outer wheelhouses, or if there's a thread that has this I haven't found, a link to that please? Even if you don't have a 67 pictures will help to get me an idea.

Thanks.

rcktdoc

I have a 67 body that can be cut up that has good pieces if your interested.

Greg

seanm12

Thanks Greg. For what I'm on right now I just need to fabricate a little for the bottom of the wheel house, and wouldn't want to cut that out of good parts. I'll keep you in mind as I go into other areas. It sure would be helpful and appreciated if you could snap a few pics of the back of the wheel house to see what it looks like where it meets up with the quarter panel as well as the trunk. It looks like both quarter panels have been replaced on this car before I got it, and I want to tidy up some parts of the work done before.

Sean

seanm12

Hi folks. I've got the common rust in the trunk where the body mounts meet with the wheel well. I got the patch panels with the body mount, cut it down, and got things fitting pretty good from the trunk side. I'm working on a cardboard template for the wheel well side. What I'm struggling with is a good 1/2" space between where the floor is versus the end of the body mount. Should I bend things on the end of the floor to get closer to the end of the body mount, or have I somehow buggered things up? What was on the car was too far gone to see how this was done originally.


Hopefully someone else has done this and can share what they did for this. Apologies for some of the pictures not looking good. I had to rush things a bit. Hopefully things are clear enough but I can post better pictures if someone wants that.


Thanks all.


Sean

seanm12

This is what I started with. The body mount was welded so I didn't bugger that up. The passenger side is similar, so I'm guessing the patch is correct.
https://www.opgi.com/gto/PAN412R/

seanm12

I took another look, comparing the patch piece to what was cut out of the car, and figured out what was different. With some clamping and welding at a few points I got the bracket and trunk panel much closer together. I'll post some pictures later.

seanm12

Warning - a lot of pictures here (54). The first 4 pics are before, the next 4 are after, and after that most of the details in between. Hopefully that's good for folks with a short attention span

https://s3.amazonaws.com/seans-bucke...air/index.html

Hopefully the pictures tell enough of the story, but feel free to ask any questions. I Started with a trunk with some air ducting riveted in, cut out the rust, used a trunk repair patch, added in more metal to fill in the blanks. I'm pretty happy with what I accomplished, except for how long it took me to get this far. I still need to weld up the rivet holes, clean off the surface rust, and hit it with primer so it doesn't rust any more.

Next up is fixing the passenger side. The trunk filler panel is bad and I see a bunch of filler at the bottom of the quarter panel. I'll need to ask my friend Copper Cutlass for advice on the passenger side quarter panel when he can pay me a visit in the future.

Copper - Please don't think I'm asking you to visit any time soon. I've got plenty to keep busy I don't need to wait on your advice for

Oldsmaniac

Nice work, you are saving a car that most would trash. Cool!

seanm12

Thanks Oldsmaniac. I inherited this car when someone passed away, so my choices are keep it and fix things when I can or trash it. I'm going the fix route, going at small chunks as I can. One day she'll roll again!

seanm12

I got a replacement trunk side filler panel through Rock Auto, made by Sherman. It's for a Chevelle, and after cutting out the old one I see some significant differences. I'm thinking I'll be grafting the top part of the old panel onto the new one. I'm wondering if anyone has done something similar and has any tips. I've got 15 pictures here in this and the next 2 postings.

seanm12

More pics

seanm12

and more pics

RandyS

I found the same thing when I had to replace both of them on my 66 Project. The ones I got (from Carid) had a similar profile to OEM, but were too short from end to end. I had to cut them in half and add material in the middle to make them fit. I spent hours and hours on that part of the project.

seanm12

I started working on the passenger side trunk, which led to working on the trunk filler panel. The patch panel I got from Rock Auto looks the same as what other places have, and I seem to have something different for how my trunk is shaped. I tried for a month to reform the stamped parts to what would work, then gave up on that and fabricated a bunch of it. This part is finally done, next I get back to the passenger side trunk.

Warning - about 60 total pictures here
http://s3.amazonaws.com/seans-bucket...fab/index.html

The first few pictures are before, the next few after after, and then follows the work in between.

1. Drilled out spot welds, top and bottom.
2. Cut out most of the part.
3. Compared old to new. Significant differences.
4. Flattened out the top and re-bent to match the old part.
5. Created the rear section.
6. Cut some slots in the front and tried to match the front of the quarter panel. That didn't go well.
7. Since reforming the stamping on the new part didn't go well I fabricated the front part. There's lots of pictures covering those steps.

While working on this I looked at the other side for reference. There's a couple little holes on the filler panel there. I'll be dabbing some JB Weld over those. I'm not doing this again if I don't have to !!!

I'm not welding this in now. I'll be popping this piece out a few more times when I get to wheel wells and quarter panel work later.