kitfoxdave

Starting to pull apart the 72 Convertible. Replacing the tired 76 350 rocket with a bored and stroked rocket 350 (ABOUT 380 cubes) that cutlass EFI is doing for me. (should be dynoed real soon!) She is going to be a cross country cruiser with some torque! (the 76 tired motor was similar to stepping on a marshmallow when you hit the gas...) It has been sitting for 10 years now. (inside!)
Switching out the th350 with a 200-r4, going posi in the rear (thanks to Brian!)
Going with 4 disc brakes... (those mini's stop awful quick!) and 15x 7 wheels. (still up in the air between Specialty Wheels SSI and Cragar SS...)
Now a really quick question... I am pulling out the core support (isn't there supposed to be metal under the battery?) and installing a refurbed one. Do I need to pull the fenders to do this? The engine and tranny will be coming out when I do this, as well.
Thanks for your guidance. (no plans to hit the track with this car!)
Sorry for the long post!

kitfoxdave

a few beginning pictures... I have 2 good doors to put on it. needs some rust spots in the rear wheel wells fixed. (once she is driveable again!)

First pic is the black hole... (she smoked a bit, no fire though)
A bit dusty from sitting around (the airplanes take 1st priority)
Metal? there is supposed to be metal under the battery tray?

kitfoxdave

here are some more pictures from disassembly.

rotted core support, Front with core support removed, old 1976? intake.

hope to pull the engine and transmission soon! The heads for the 350 stroker are still at the machine shop... So probably mid october for the engine.

oldsguybry

Wow , you have your work cut out for you on that core support . Lucky for me , mine wasn't that bad . I just had one hole under the battery tray ( what was left of it ) Unfortunately I was playing trial and error with mine when I had it off , and the POR15 peeled off at the bottom where the coolant dripped down on it I must not of cleaned or etched the metal right before I put the POR on , but that was about 6yrs ago when I was still learning . ( still am ) I noticed the front of your frame is cut off . Was it rotten ?

kitfoxdave

The front of the frame is not cut off. It has some surface rust, but did not suffer like the core support. just needs a good cleaning, prep and paint... once the engine and transmission are out.

kitfoxdave

Stopped by to help a buddy and he was acid etching some parts. So we threw in the brackets for the front bumper... about 1-1/2 hours later, they looked about brand new! One is pitted (was under the battery) Hope to get POR15 on today.

oldsguybry

I have no idea what I was looking at to say the frame was cut off now that I look at the pic again . Maybe I need glasses

Those bumper brackets turned out great !

kitfoxdave

Making way for the new stuff!
Trying to get the engine compartment cleaned up before the engine and tranny arrive... So here is where I am at so far!
engine hanging in the breeze after some GUNK cleaner...
th350 tranny on the floor looking for a home...
lots of brackets and supports taken out for the next couple weeks of clean and POR-15
Time to order brake kit, fuel lines, tranny lines (old ones are 1/4" copper!)
and wiring harness (man that insulation is brittle!)
some pics with the 76 motor out...

RetroRanger

Looks like your making some good progress Dave

where are you getting the 200r4...thats on my short list of stuff

also what did you use for acid on those brackets they came out great

kitfoxdave

I have nave narrowed it down to patc, bqtes and ckperformance for the 200r4. just need to make final decision, The acid is Muriatic acid 30% from home depot. use gloves respirator and goggles. It gives off funky green vapor while it does its thing. I have some more perts to do so i;ll try to get some before and after pics.

kitfoxdave

my buddy has a cnc plasma cutter... he made me these for my valve cover!

kitfoxdave

another weekend spent under the olds...
Mineral spirits and a brass wire brush...

this is what I found
the good paint on firewall is pretty decent including stamp!
the paint underneath was protected by all the crud and oil film! looks new! (the white is residue from purple cleaner)
The bad.... well I found another small area that needs rust removed and patch!

The UGLY, all the wiring harnesses are brittle and the plug crumble to dust when you try to take them apart...

The New brake setup has arrived, the new rear arrives early next week... the engine is ready to go to the dyno...and I have to get the tranny ordered this week!

Allan R

Gosh, if you're going to all this trouble, why not just pull the body and put it on a rotisserie? Then you could also blast the frame and paint or powdercoat it.

kitfoxdave

I bought one of those anti-MAW Helmets! It is working sort of! Engine (76 smogger) and tranny both needed rebuild (this has always been a southern car so rust isn't too severe), I wanted posi, and a 4 speed auto fits into my future vacation plans... This one is going to be on the open road for LONG distance cruises (I have been told the Canadian Rockies are pretty nice, eh), not a trailer queen... (although she might pull a small one!) Of course with more power and Posi, I wanted to be able to stop... so the 4 wheel disc brakes... First order of business is to get her back rolling, then the body work and paint (next year) then the interior... (The new top may come before the paint though...)

Allan R

Anti MAW helmets don't work. You also need anti MAW goggles. I think you'll be happy with the engine tranny choice. What gears on the posi? I would think that the 200R4 will give good enough gear range that you could get away with something like a nice combo econo gear set like 3:08. But then again if you're planning really LONG cruises and it's intended as a highway car? Stick with 2:56. Are you keeping stock wheels or going to larger like 17 or 18?

Yup the Canadian Rockies are super pretty. Actually so is most of Canada so you'll have a great driving experience when you do it. Our gas prices up here are measured in litres instead of gallons so you might be in for a culture and $$$ shock. Right now we (Edmonton) has almost the cheapest price in Canada for gas at (4.12/US gal).

kitfoxdave

Going to use 3.42 gears and 15 inch wheels (to clear the disc brake kit). I have seen a lot of the east coast of Canada, and a small amount of the west coast (Victoria and Vancouver area) Familiar with the gas situation... Not as bad as europe and Turkey for gas prices though! (5 years ago it was about $9 usd per gallon!)

Allan R

Nice. I just installed 3:42's in my car. It won't get a test run till next year. I just finished cleaning and detailing the rear diff last week. Soon as it warms up a bit I have to put it back in the car. I made it look like a W27 rear end. Can hardly wait to try it out. Only difference is that I kept my TH350 so I'll be slurping gas more than you. I also have 14's with 225X70 to mimic the old G7814s.

If you're going to come through Edmonton, give me a call and drop by. You can let me know via PM on the info exchange.

kitfoxdave

My posi rear end came in today! It looks amazing! Thanks Brian, great job!
the Drive shaft should be done this weekend.... its all piling up to go back together.

kitfoxdave

Here's first picture of stroker engine...

Hope to post pictures of posi rearend soon! The old rear should be out later today. Will be boxing the control arms hopefully this week. Bolted on the first part yesterday! (steering box)

kitfoxdave

Here are some picture of the rear ends

The Original, and the rebuilt (from Brian!)

Also recieved the new 15 x 7 SS1 wheels from specialty wheel

kitfoxdave

The right stuff isn't... rear disk brake kit is a NIGHTMARE! on a 10 bolt axle, had to machine the flanges of the axles down to fit inside the rotor, put things together per their instructions with 1/4 thiick shim.. only way to fit the caliper on is with no shim! Even tried the thinnest one! Instructions say need at least 15 inch wheels... well the SS1's I got from specialty wheel will not fit without cleaning up the welds, grinding some off the caliper housing, and installing a spacer for the wheel! It has been a 2 day struggle and it still isn't complete... The stuff may work on a chevelle, but NOT Oldsmobile! Steer clear of this one!

Allan R

Yikes, sorry to hear about that. Who was the vendor? Sounds like they need to take it back.

kitfoxdave

I need to replace fuel tank and fuel lines...Rusty and Crusty! If I get a 70 tank, and fuel lines, will they fit a 72 cutlass? and could I then get rid of the weird evaporation thing in the rear behind the seat and the charcoal canister? I know I would need a different gas cap! The car is too old to worry about emissions (and with the Edel intake and carb no real place to hook up anyway)

kitfoxdave

firewall has everything removed for cleaning before installation of new parts

The rear disc brakes are a nightmare

Picture of firewall...

kitfoxdave

The New Transmission from Bowties is here... 200R4 Level 2

Struggled the upper bushings into place on the rear end. Still need to machine some stuff for my brake installation... Hopefully It will be ready to go in over christmas/ new years break... I have 2 weeks off.. hope to actually get more accomplished...
Still need to drop the fuel tank and swap out fuel and brake lines to the rear... the front ones are starting to go in.
Still waiting for engine... Hope Santa's elves get busy and send it by Christmas!

Going to start getting the rear control arms back in soon ready for rear to go in!

kitfoxdave

Quick update... the engine has gone to the dyno and will be here any day now.
398 ft-lbs of torque!
Specs and dyno sheet under SBO stroker thread...
Made some progress with rear, struggling with front brake lines. Getting ready to lift the body off the frame to get new body mounts and fuel line installed... The floor pan (bottom side is almost clean of gunk!) Hope to get pics posted this week.

RetroRanger

Nice Dave I'm jealous, I want that 200r4 !!!

How did you get thebushings in the rear, I assume your talking about the ones for the upper CAs where they attach to the rear

kitfoxdave

The bushing shells were a bit of a pain, as the cast housing gets in the way for putting a piece of pipe around the bushing to draw it in with threaded rod. Ended up drawing it in as far as possible, then cut a horse shoe shaped piece of 3/4 plywood and had the washers bear against that to get it in the last 1/4 inch. used 3/4 threaded rod to apply the necessary force. judicious raps of a wooden mallet helped speed things along initially. Should have been an easy job that eneded up taking a couple of hours!

kitfoxdave

I got the front to rear brake line in (stainless) and tied into the back of the distribution valve. Rebent the front right brake line and tied it into the distribution valve. (mounted distribution valve on frame where original one was located)

it now should clear the exhaust!

Once I finish the install I'll get hold of Tony at Right stuff and let him know how I modified their parts to work on the cutlass.... and why I had to do it!

Still need to order a couple of lengths of tubing for the lines from master cylinder to the distribution block.

I'll try for more pics tomorrow... some did not come out.

Eddie Hansen

Dave just order stock power drum brake lines , that is what I used, not sure if the connections on my dist block are the same as yours, but the power drum lines fit perfect on mine. I also used the power drum front lines to the distribution block also fit fine.

Nice job so far, and love the numbers on you motor

Btw could you post some pics of your rear disc set up, I am really curious about the interference

kitfoxdave

Eddie, I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow. I took some today but they did not come out... Issues with the card in the camera.
for the front to rear line, I cut off the fwd flare and swapped in the larger fitting that ties into the rear of the distribution valve that came with the kit. (looks almost identical to the one that was on the car with disc brakes) also straightened the fwd end of the line and it fit well. Cut off the extra on the Passengers side front line and reflared it (also removed most of the outer "spring" so I could tweek it to fit with a tighter radius at the frame to clear the exhaust. I may opt for the drum brake setup for the master to distribution valve, but since I have the different distribution valve, It might just be less hassle to just "do it"!
I now have the tools...
I am so looking forward to getting that installed... it will be a cruiser with some attitude... I LIKE the low end torque numbers! Glad I decided on the "stage 2" build for the 200r4... Beefy is better for longevity!

kitfoxdave

some pics of the brake installation...

Rear axle, you can see a little bit of scraping on the caliper where the seam weld on the SSI's interferes... the 3/8 spacer clears this problem.

droptopron

You've done some nice stuff to this car. Good luck finishing it off.

kitfoxdave

Well, I started lifting the body off the frame... (Replacing the Body Mounts!) and installing the new fuel lines... Looks like the rear bumper needs to come off to do this! No Allen! It is NOT going on a rotisserie! I have my MAW helmet pulled down over my head, all the way to my ankles!

Sampson

Careful with those body mount bolts. I was taking mine out this past weekend to replace the mounts and rounded the head on the bolt behind the right rear wheel. I know I will need to cut the head off the bolt but not sure how I will get the remainder of the bolt out of the body. I had only planned to lift the body enough to replace the bushings. You have made some great improvements to your car. Good looking job. Did you have to modify the floorboards for the trans swap?

kitfoxdave

All the bolts came out with no trouble at all! I LOVE southern cars! The transmission is supposed to be a direct swap with NO sheet metal mods... unless I go the console shifter route... Once the engine is here, I will bolt the tranny to it and slip it into place! Then I will know for sure!

Eddie Hansen

Sampson sears makes an extractor for rounded lug nuts lock nuts that the key has been lost etc it runs about 40 bucks for the set comes with three sockets just a thought

Eddie Hansen

Dave thanks for the pics, great work, I still don't understand why you didn't need spacers? The spacers set the mounting bracket further inboard? I know I had problems with the axle flanges and had to ground these down, I know you said you turned down the flanges did you have new axle bearings pressed on? Just thinking out loud. I like your work around with the kit pov valve too

Allan R

Got pics of that? I'm really interested in how you did it. BTW right now I don't have the rear bumper on my car so this 'might' be easier than I thought...

kitfoxdave

Eddie, with the rear rotor supplied in the kit, no spacers were rquired to line up the caliper to the rotor disc. When I talked with Todd at Right Stuff he said that happens with about 5% of the rear axles. I checked the rear that I pulled out of my car and it had the same dimensions as the rebuilt one I am installing (including axle flange diameter)

Allen, my car frame is supported on adjustable stands (about 17 inches off the floor). I removed all the bolts and made sure everyting betweem the body and frame were disconected. I used concrete block and a bottle jack in four locations (with a block of wood between the floor cross brace and the top of the bottle jack. I took it really slow and stayed out from under the car as I did this... If you have rust issues, I could see thiss being a real PITA!