Indy_68_S

Chassis re-creation continues.....!....slowly

Finished up more lines. Added the fuel return & finalized the front hard lines. These all took a fair amount of manual adjustment to get them all to fit.

..
Compare the dist block lines to my previous post. It took me an hour of massaging the lines to get them to fit/lay right. I made all lines 'relaxed' and in perfect position prior to tightening the fittings. I don't like to have any tension/stress/angles on the flares/fittings.

..and finished the parking brake stuff...

I'm particularly proud of the parking brake collection of clips, hooks, adjuster, nuts,etc... They're not chinesium (Ize hates me some chinesium). I scored a little bag-o-parts on FleaBay. The parts were claimed "68 Chevelle" & had all been cleaned & replated. It had everything I needed & cost the same a the repro stuff ! So, I popped open the bag, did a few fist pumps & stomped around the garage shouting U! S! A! . U! S! A!....

70vista

Looking good and detailed. Keep up the good work.

Indy_68_S

Then it was on to the calipers. I was warned by many that the '68 4-piston setups were a pain....and I think I know why now!

First: I sent my old set to Lone Star for rebuild/sleeved/exchange. I took an exchange set from them figuring they ought to be at least equal, or maybe better, than what I had. I'm a little disappointed in Lone Star. The caliper seem to be rebuilt OK although the halves looked kinda mismatched (unlike my old ones). The paint (or whatever they used) while a bit thick, looks OK. But, every single threaded hole on them was a mess. I could only thread a bolt a turn or 2 into each mounting hole. I ended up getting a 7/16"-14 tap to clean out the mounting holes. I got a ton of crud/rust out of them all. Then I tried the fitting holes. Almost as bad. The flare nipples look OK, but the threads were a mess. The big one (dr. side) is a standard 1/2"-20 so I cleaned it up with a bottoming tap, but the little one (pass. side) is a funky 7/16"-24. I had to order this tap and am waiting on it now. I put a little dot of duct tape on the nipple while I was working on it to keep stuff out of the caliper.

I now have one caliper ready to go. And I finally picked some rotors...

I settled on Napa Ultras. No, they don't look correct, but I've had good luck w/ Napas in the past so I went with these ...and these were made in Canada and I'm avoiding chinesium wherever possible.... So, these have that going for 'em too.

Plus, they're already painted. Dunno if that'll burn off on first stop though...

I put on the rotor and caliper just to test fit everything and behold.....

...the caliper hits the rotor hub very slightly. I'm not sure where to go with this. The interference is very slight. I can still turn the rotor by hand. Taking no more than ~.1" off the bottom of the caliper ought to fix it and it looks like there's plenty of material there. Also, its only the top/front piston part of the caliper that touches. Bottom/back part clears by ~.1".

I did a test fit the other side and had the same results, but not quite as bad. The hub just barely drags on the top piston casting. My brackets & spindles are used originals (thanks, rockethound!) so I don't think they are the problem. I think the rotor may be a tad thick on the hub portion. I have an old one piece rotor, but no caliper big enough to compare them. I did compare the space from the stud to edge and the new rotor looks just hair larger. The old rotor also has a smaller diameter hub area starting ~ halfway back from the face....right where the new one hits the caliper...

My thought at this point is to just buzz a little off the calipers at this point...but I'm going to ponder that while I wait for my tap to come in....!

More as it happens...

Indy_68_S

Thank you, sir! I use your 'VC on a spit' thread for inspiration at times!

Indy_68_S

Despite NAPA's claims, it turns out the rotors I got from them are NOT compatible with the 4 piston calipers. Fearing endless rounds of incompatible cheaper rotors, I ended up getting a pair of 'correct appearing' 2 piece ones. Yeah, they're chinesium, but hopefully they'll work OK....& they didn't cost much more than the high-end NAPAs.

Clicky for big...

Assembling the brakes was a bit of a chore. I found myself reminiscing about replacing the calipers, rotors, & pads on my wife's Saturn years ago....45 mins from key off to key on...! I now know why the 4 piston setups are avoided for drivers.

The repro ILT lines I got needed some massaging to fit....


Left one (red) has been modded / Right(brown) has not


Both modded

Time consuming....Install line, memorize what/where to tweak, remove line, bend gently with hands, repeat...over & over

This may be because I have the 'first series' 2 piece type hose/line brackets. I've seen/heard that this was changed at some point to the 1 piece design.




Assorted notes/thoughts.....

Had to use aftermarket backing plates as mine are too far gone to restore (bent/rusty/etc..). Just wish they didn't have that logo on them...

Painted all the rotors' cast areas with some VHT cast. I just cleaned them, masked off the rotor wear surfaces, and hosed 'em with a rattlecan. Hopefully this will keep them looking OK for a while...and not like the blossoming barnacle ones on my truck...

Pads are some generic organic pads. The caliper piston preload springs make the pads really drag the rotor. It would be very difficult to remove the pads 'by the book' using the 'tip/rotate & pull pad out method' as it sits. Same with installation. I ended up loading the calipers and sticking a couple of 1" OD sockets 'tween the pads. Then I could just drop the caliper on.

Also installed shocks all around. KYB GR-2s refinished to gray (hardest part was removing the KYB label!). Cheap & quick & if I don't like them, they're an easy fix....

Up next...steering & drivetrain !

Indy_68_S

2.5 months later.......

I now realize that a project I thought might take 1 - 1.5 years is going to take wee bit longer....

Engine time...
As always, click for big pic

Started with this....
....
the gently pulled original 350 4bbl is all its grimy 43 year old glory... (Note the chains are still on as I didn't fully trust the chinesium HF engine stand..)

Once I warmed up to the engine stand's bounciness, a few hours later we were to this.....

ohhhhh..thse cyl wals look like mirrors & look at that little dish. Not a flatop, but.....


..and then this....


.....the longest part being the bagging & tagging all of the brackets/bolts/nuts/etc..

All cataloging done to my hillbilly specs...as quickly & cheaply as possible.....


Hauled the block & crank down to the local machine shop & had them cleaned/checked out. After cleaning, the machinist did a very light hone on the cyls as they needed a decent surface to measure. Post hone measurement were just getting to the high side of stock. He told me the block & crank looked 'virginal', but that oddly, the #8 cyl was the one most showing wear. He said he usually sees the #1 as its the one that get hits with cold water...therefore shrinking it a bit & wearing more. The crank was only borderline on the #1 block journal. All others were fine. Also, the block was mag'd (was OK) just in case...

Unfortunately, this shop doesn't do any building.... just reputable machine work. And, after checking with a few shops, and thanks to some CO guidance, the block & the crank are now in the hands of a builder I trust.

I then emptied the heads....

Indy_68_S

Odd casting numbers

Right head (2 4 6 8)


Left head ( 1 3 5 7 )


4 on the 118 julian date & 3 on the 120 julian date.....and my steering arms are dated 118 & 120 too.....
Apparently the lefts & rights were a couple of days off...from different stock ...or..?
Car's build date is late 04/68...

jensenracing77

i didn't know they didn't assemble them. i always did that part myself but i thought they did also.

Indy_68_S

???

It went to Brownsburg Machine first....

jensenracing77

OK, i was thinking something differant.

Indy_68_S

And the wheels of progress grind slowly...

Figured I'd better post up some progress lest CO folks think I only make snarky comments and I lose my 'resto cred'

Current state of affairs...



clicky for big...

- Engine is orig block .030 w/ Probes. Recond OE rods. Recond OE crank w/new pilot bearing. OE iron intake. Orig 67cc (measured) #5 heads w/ 1.625/2.000 valves & light bowl work. W/ light decking C/R came out to 9.92:1. Comp 1441 adj rockers. OE 7028250 set up to W-31 spec. OE distributor w/points. Erson 220/228 on 110 - .504 lift. Cloyes TruRoller. Sanderson SBO shorties. Dyno'd @ 345hp/390tq, but I'm a little supsect about that as water temp was down during best pull.
- New Anchor 2261 engine & 2378 trans mounts.
- Bellhousing is 9785581 OE and was indexed (only .004 runout - yay! No offset dowels!)
- Clutch is new flywheel, Centerforce II Dual Friction, new throwout, OE fork & longer GM ball stud to accomodate thinner flywheel.
- Trans is 1968 M-20 - Rebuilt - All new seals,bearings,synchros,etc.. B/U light switch is aftermarket.
- Shifter is OE Olds Hurst w/ OE mounting plate & 3759 stick. Spent a while indexing rods for smoothest op.
- Front susp. / steering complete.
- Old 15x7 SSII wheels bead blasted. Had to dig all those little beads out of the hub/barrel crevice, but they came out great for as rusty as they were. Looked like OEM steel. Painted with flat black epoxy primer all over - Backsides finished in semi gloss black. I'll eventually paint argent once I find the right shade & maybe mimic the '68 SSII with painted trim rings! Am investigating getting/making a pair of 15x8 for rear. Tires are trash rollarounds.

Random notes:

- Core support should be back from paint this week. Have original 4-core rad that's been re-cored. (You can see 4 core top plate on cardboard on rear x-member)Then its time to finsh up engine acc's, wires, hoses, etc.....add some cooling and annoy the neighbors!

- Battery is there because I was testing starter as I had a heckuva time check pinion/flywheel clearance w/new flywheel. Turns out everything is fine w/ no shims needed. Genuine GM bellhousing shield needed ~ 1/4" trimmed off area where it hits block & in starter hole to fit right.

- Still waiting for body guy to make progress co I can get the body back.....

Eddie Hansen

It is looking great very very nice work

real57vetteguy

Great work and great progress, its easier to take it apart but awful nice to be working with clean parts during assembly. I look forward to seeing more pics and results!

jensenracing77

looking good!

Indy_68_S

I was getting a bit frustrated with the body guy as my body was languishing in the corner of the shop. The panel/floor repairs were mostly done, it just needed cleaned and the bottom painted. There hadn't been any progress in months due to him 'not having enough help'.

About a month ago I offered to 'help' if it meant progress. So I spent a couple of days at the shop grinding, scrubbing, sanding, etc.. on the bottom & firewall.

End o' day 1

clicky for big...

Other than tired arms from days of running grinders/sanders, it was kinda fun. I appreciated him letting me 'help'...and, as a bonus, I got to play with a MIG welder for some little hole fixing. My only previous welding experience was with spot welders decades ago in high school. He gave me a 2 minute tutorial and cut me loose. These MIG welders are awesome. If I had one, I'd find something to weld every day!

Meanwhile, I worked on the chassis at home. Got the rad support, rad, hoses, headlight buckets, etc.. on and ready to go.



Now that I had a rad, I could fire & tune the engine at home. The engine ran well at the builder on his his dyno, but I needed to do a few things like re-clock the distrbutor, run vac lines, test the fuel pump, test oil/temp senders etc. I also installed part of the engine wiring & batt. cables with new wire from Lectric Limited.

I will admit a stupid mistake at this point. I had run the new wiring for the starter and had to test it. I rigged up some wiring and spun the starter (coil wire off). I heard a rythmic screeching while it was turning. Seemed to be coming from the front of the engine. I couldn't tell as I had to stand off to the side to hold the 'start' wire on the batt to spin the starter. I kinda diagnosed it to the timing cover area. I thought "sh*t, the double roller timing chain is hitting the pump arm".

So, I drained the rad, pulled the support, pulled off a few accessories and taught my young son how to hold the start wire to spin the starter. He did and I listened... carefully...moving around the front of the engine....until I got to the carb area...and noticed that the little cap I stuck on the ported vac port had come off (prolly when I was doing vac lines) and the screeching was the port sucking air. Grrrrrrr....... Do'h.

So back together it went.

More to come...

68oldscutlass

B-E-A-UTIFULL. Wish I went this far on my 68. Just couldnt afford it. I did do a whole lot of work but yours is going to be just stupendous!

Indy_68_S

Finally ! (& no, I don't know why the body plugs weren't installed before it was painted....but guy says all wil be OK)


clicky for big...

Indy_68_S

Thanks!

Your car is sharp ! (but I'm partial to Provincial White!!)

The main reason this is taking so long (3 yrs now...) is that I'm cheap and do as much as I can myself. Me convincing him to let me work at the shop saved me some $$ for the bottom/firewall prep.

gearheads78

Looking great. It will be worth it in the end.

jdana24

Very nice work! I look forward to following your build. It will look great when it is completed.

Indy_68_S

Re-united...and it feels so good!

Milestone.

Body put back on frame. No real drama. Just 4 guys & a bunch of ratchet straps hung from the ceiling beams to get it off the rotisserie.






click for big...

Next steps:
Bag the heck out of everything to keep out dust
Primer everything that's not already
Finish out the interior/dash paint-wise.
Clean up & fit doors, fenders, hood, etc.,

Then I'll bring it back home to finish up all of the firewall/dash, mechanical, & wiring....

68 cutty

I know thread is a little old how can I tell if my cutlass vert is a Lansing?

Indy_68_S

'M' as the 7th character in the VIN

ala 336678M123456

jeff70

How do the Sanderson headers fit?

Olds442redberet

Wow! you're going to have a new 1968 whenyou're finished. Great work!

Indy_68_S

Yikes. Just realized I haven't updated in 2+ years. Not good..not good.
Must....get....busy.

jeff70, PM'd you.

jensenracing77

I have been wondering how things were going with this. Did the painter ever get done with the body?

Indy_68_S

Short answer; "No."

Long answer; (grab a sandwich & settle in...it's long!)

After we dropped the body on, he was supposed to spray the interior (white), the dash (Garnet), and a few other places in the next week. This took him 4 months...and that was with me going by weekly to prod him. For example: It took him a whole month "trying to match the dash paint". I finally thumbed thru some PPG/Dupont/whatever books he had laying around and found an exact match (used my mint str. clm. cover as ref color) in a stocked color. Bought some at NAPA and gave it to him. Turned out perfect.

It had been turning into a real PITA for some time and was headed for full-on nightmare. His people were good, when they were there & did good work, but never lasted. His shop had moved mid-project and seemed to be going downhill after that. I lost all trust/faith in the guy. I always had issues with him following directions and then giving me BS excuses/explanations...& sometimes veiled threats, but it was getting worse. The car was basically trapped there, so I just kept on him with the hope that I could eventually get everything done right & get it out of there.

Some of my consolation was there were other cars in there in the same situ. You see a pair of '70 fenders in the last pic. Car is a white over blue 'vert. Owner, who was nice but not much car guy, had owned it since '70s & it came in as #s match orig. That car was farther along than mine, but nothing on was even remotely correct now. Generic/aftermarket/cobbled-together everything....& the car owner told me how much he'd spent so far. I felt bad for him & the car. There was also a mostly together '69 'Vette buried under stuff/dust "waiting for interior"..but hadn't been touched in 1+ years. I met the owner one day & we decided we were in the same boat (& I emailed him links to int. sources).

At the 4 month mark (after body on) I told him I was picking it up the next week so everything had to be done. He did a few of the little things. I showed up on the sched'd day with a buddy & his rollback & another guy for backup. Body guy seemed shocked...veering between PO'd, aloof, & sorry. I had to dig thru the junkyard corners of his shop to get all my parts that were buried under other cars' dusty parts/junk. What were once freshly blasted fenders, hood, & trunk lid now have some flash rust because he never painted them. I also never did find some stuff like door/trunk hinge bolts & other little things (time for a trip to oldspackrat!).

About this time, my work changed drastically so I didn't have time to work on it. About all I could do was start it once a month or so to keep everything lubed. Only now am I starting to get some time.

So, it sits mostly like the last pic above...but safe in my garage...

jensenracing77

Sorry to hear of so much trouble. If you need more work done my body guy is much faster and real good. He is $50 per hour. he has a backlog now but after he gets one in he is very quick. I am pleased with the work on my car.

Olds442redberet

What you are experiencing is actually a very common scenario. My brother and I have been studying this phenomenon for a couple of years now, even going so far as working with a shop owner in order to fix his business model. The experience proved valuable. The fellow we helped started to make real money but he couldn’t overcome his constant bouncing from idea to idea and now he is finished for good. His name and reputation were destroyed forever by his inability to stay focused along with his constant corner cutting when it came to customer cars.

My brother and I both believe a lot of these bodyshop guys have no business running a business. Most of them are true geniuses when it comes to paint and body. And you see it in the product they produce for themselves (not always with customer cars). But these artists seem to suffer in other areas. Most aren't very good with the customers, timelines, task organization, inventory, or even taking care of the customer’s cars. The ones I have done business with just seem to be enamored with the idea of being the owner of the establishment. My brother and I watched them start up and run into the ground business after business. Only a few really have what it takes to be an owner operator. It is but a few who are really willing to make the sacrifices needed to build and grow a business.

I have seen and heard so many horror stories that I am now afraid to leave my car with anyone.

These are my opinions only.

Indy_68_S

This describes my situation to a T. My guy seemed pretty good at paint/finishing. He'd jet off to CA for a few weeks about once a year to do some project and showed me magazine articles with his work. He had freshly spun off from another long established shop to be on his own & was recommended by a great local hot rod shop owner when I started.

At first, all was well (Based on conversations, I suspect he had a large $$$ infusion from a relative to get going.). Nice shop & equip, several seemingly good workers, good looking projects moving through.....and he talked a good game. But slowly things started changing. Less workers, weirder projects, some projects stalled/abandoned, difficult to contact, etc. A year or so in, he moved way down scale into a smaller dingier shop with increasing excuses, BS, & downright belligerence for my increasing 'WTH?' moments. It got so I would write instructions with a marker on sheets of paper taped to the car so he couldn't come back with 'You told me to do it that way' when he didn't do something the way I'd asked. I was having to go there once a week to badger/monitor him to get anything done...and done right

The shop & projects were going downhill. I was there so frickin' much that I witnessed a lot. More customer arguments, crappy spray jobs on cheap ricer cars, fights with the tool truck guy, crap/trash piling up everywhere, & he was down to one teen age kid as his only help. I knew I had to get it out of there and while not complete, the big work was done. But the logistics of grabbing the body off his rotisserie out of the back of the shop were stopping me. My break was that he re-arranged some cars and mine went to the front. That's went I went full on to get it back on the chassis ASAP so I could take it.

My biggest mistake was not trusting my instincts when the problems started increasing. This project was new to me and at times I wasn't sure if problems were real...or if I just wasn't understanding something. I also wanted to believe all was well & at times kinda deluded myself that all would be OK. The more I learned, the more I realized I was right to be concerned. (I should've listened to the voices in my head !)

I guess I'm somewhat lucky. The work that did get done (or re-done) is pretty good & nothing horrible happened to the car while there. My only real loss was time.

Indy_68_S

I'll be PM'ing you ! Thanks !

Positiveray

How goes the project? I am in the process with my '68 442... and had a question, if you have the time.(?) Just let me know you are available to chat and I will explain what's up...
Positivery