Goliardi

After about 25,000 miles of topless Alabama driving I am removing the clicking, 0-60 piano dragging (but 60-100 roaring) 350 motor, and have undertaken the finding, building, installing of an Olds 455, rear disc brakes, rear OEM sway bar, front hotchkiss sway bar, 4 channel alpine amp, and JL 10 inch self-amped sub. The goal? About 400 hp of SDD (Sunny Day Driver) 7 speaker - old school rock and roll cool.

(The 350 motor will be rebuilt and placed into an Olds to be named at a later date - anybody around B'ham have a 40's fastback or 65 cutlass they need removed?)

For the time being, the TH 350 is staying - but am interested in learning about the overdrive "device" that a friend talked about that hooks up to the driveshaft?

ENGINE: Mike "Porkchop" Richards procured a 1973 Olds 455 and a set of 1969 C heads. The motor arrived spray painted, over the Olds blue, in ..... GM orange . . . puke in my mouth (Had a 69 Camaro SS Convertible and still thought - wow that is almost Tennessee Orange - yuck).

The C heads are being rebuilt. Troy Thompson braved 20 feet of snow to dig out a nicely re-mfg 750 Rochester quadra-jet with electric choke and a set of OEM exhaust manifolds. Add in an Edelbrock intake manifold some sealed power .030 over and a super performer cam(?) and hopefully, when you drop it into the Kenny St. John of Springville auto-caudren, the result will be a 9.1 compression 400 hp breath taker.

Hirsch provided the engine paint (could not apply quick enough) and we are half-way home.

Any pitfalls - advice - etc. will be greatly appreciated.

Mr Nick

http://www.gearvendors.com/

But I would personally go with a built 200-4R.

Stevec

You may have to modify your transmission tunnel to make room for the gear vendors unit. It replaces the factory tail section of the transmission and requires a shorter drive shaft and I've heard stories of them either being a bitch to get to work properly or at all but when they do they are really a nice upgrade.

orismedic

For the money it would cost to get a gear vender you can get a really nice 200R4.

dc2x4drvr

Yah, 200R4. Cam specs?

Goliardi

Elgin Pro Stock E 977 P? And I am not sure about that or what that means. But I am hoping that it helps make smooth reliable 100,000 miles worth of power.

SOUND SYSTEM: Acquired one JL 10 inch self-amped subwoofer and alpine four channel amplifier. Also found out that the plan to use the two alpine tweeters that were previously installed under the dash, where the original Olds speakers were located, will not work as they were "removed" by the kid that I had add the second set of speakers under the dash (sneaky bastard).

Still, four amplified six inch Diamond speakers (two in the back seat side panels and two under the dash) and one nice subwoofer should be loud and clear enough without the tweeters - love saying woofers and tweeters. (Kind of like whisker-biscuit (on a hunting bow)).

Mr Nick

E-977-P
Int .296 .473 289° 214°
Exh .311 .497 300° 224°

Almost at the bottom of the page

http://catalog.elginind.com/app/engi...27s+by+Part+No.

Goliardi

Anyone have any experience with the largest firmest wheel tire combination you can put on the 72 Cutlass without altering the standard suspension configuration and rubbing fender wells? Tirerack indicates 225-55-16 - which is fine (z rated) but wondering if I could cheat a little more in back (really looking for width above all.)

Mr Nick

What size wheel?

I have 285/40/18 on mine with no rubbing issues, and I'm lowered a good 2" front and rear. If you want to stick with 15's, you should be able to run a 275/60/15 with no trouble in the back (use an 8" wide wheel), it's a popular size.

Goliardi

I love the look-ride of the 245-60-14 I have now - but am looking for a tire-wheel combo that I can drive to and use on track days at some local road tracks where I can have a little more fun. Thank-you for the info on the 18's.

Mr Nick

18x9 wheels front and rear.
255/45/18 front and 285/40/18 rear

IMG_0406_zps7275c7be.jpg

HWYSTR455

If you're not going to run big brakes, 17s provide a great, affordable tire selection. 255/40/17 on the front, and 275/40/17 on the rear is pretty standard, and provide an excellent balance of performance.



Mr. Nick - What kind of wheels are those? They look great on your car! Are those C5 brakes?


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Cutlass Memories

Mr. Nick, did you have to use spacers on your setup?
I will probably end up using 17's, but haven't settled on that yet.

Mr Nick

No spacers on those, clear the C5 brakes no problem and the 13 offset is perfect.

They are Voxx Gasser wheels, I believe distributed by BG Rod Works. I got mine thru my local Discount Tire.

http://www.bgrodworks.com/eng/wheels...machined-face/

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/whe...=Car%2FMinivan


I did have the 17" Old School wheels on there before (my signature), and they needed spacers to clear the brakes. The curved spokes on the Gasser solved that.

Goliardi

Wonder if the Gasser's in 17x9 will allow for 10 inch disc brakes?

Mr Nick

They should,but don't go by my opinion only. My 18's clear the 12.8 front and 12.0 rear brakes I have.

Lots of guys running them on new Challengers because they look like the Hurst wheels. Not sure if any of them have the 17" size or not.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bg+r...=isch&imgdii=_

HWYSTR455

That's what I have on the LeMans, the hybrid C5 brakes, and it's tough finding wheels to clear the calipers. It's rare that wheel manufacturers list specific dimensions when it comes to caliper clearance, and most just say you have to test fit. That's not an option when you order custom widths and backspacing, you're stuck at that point.

.

Goliardi

All cleaned up.

csouth

You should have no problem clearing a 10" brake with a 17" wheel. C5 Vette's had 12.8" front brakes with 17" wheels.

Goliardi

Back to momma. A broken transmission mount ordered and the time draws near to top down, seventy-sunshine-time.

Goliardi

1) rebuilt 455 overheating from get go - summit aluminum radiator with electric fan v. something clogged in motor v. squirrel stuck somewhere? Has new water pump and pulley has been checked. Thinking of buying new four core copper getting shroud and getting rid of summit aluminum and electric fan. Thoughts?

2) put car on rack and rotated the right rear tire (and held driver's side tire in place) and counted the revolutions of drive shaft and got 10 tire rotations resulting in 13.7 drive shaft rotations - does not appear correct, eh?

Seff

The driveshaft has to turn both wheels, meaning you have a 13.7x2/10=2.73 rear. IIRC.

Goliardi

Well that math works our perfect. What is redline go no further on a stock 72 455?

Mr Nick

Probably no reason to go past 5,000 RPM on a stock 455.

Goliardi

Looks perfect then for my needs - 2.74 diff with 225-60-14 tires equals

3000 rpm - 80 mph
5000 rpm - 132 mph (faster than I would try... probably)

Still looking for advice on the overheating - any chance 73 455 block and crank mixed with a set of 69 C Heads incompatible and cause?

ent72olds

Check timing or lean carb for possible overheating issue.

Goliardi

6 Degrees?

csouth

Before you start throwing a new radiator at, I would ask:

Have you verified there is no air in the system?
What temp thermostat are you using?
Can you verify that the fan starts from cold to warm at the correct temp?
What size and how many CFM is the fan that you have?
How is the coverage of the fan shroud to the radiator?

Goliardi

Thank-you all for excellent advice. Went ahead and obtained four-core copper radiator, replaced lower hose, installed 6 blade clutch fan, AND fan shroud. Tested for 15 minutes in driveway in nuclear hot Alabama heat and maintained a 160 temp reading on questionable aftermarket gauge. So far so good. Taking for short test drive tomorrow.

Goliardi

Back to drawing board. Drove gradual around town - temps increased to about 200 gradually. Then down to 190 and steady. Took to interstate within 10 miles at 60-80 mph - temps increased to 230 and pinging-knocking occurred-increasing with temp issues.

So, it aint the radiator, fan, shroud, or hoses (felt like a gale wind under the hood at idle)

Probably not brand new water pump, probably not brand new thermostat.

Timing, double check air . . .

george landis

What does "Porkchop" say? Tell him George (66 Tri Pwr) says "Hi". My 400E is at MJ Proformance getting done.

Goliardi

Good to see someone close to home on here. If the twists left and twists right do not solve the problem, Master Porkchop will be the next stop. Let me know how your build turns out.

Goliardi

After the rear drum to disc rear swap pedal is very soft and will not lock up.

New MC and booster installed.

Going to double check for vacuum issue and reinspect front lines (rear are new - front are 72 Nova discs installed by previous owner).

Would lack of a proportioning valve cause sponginess?

Is a proportioning valve necessary on four wheel discs?

Goliardi

Here she is. If it is wrong and need new MC and/or proportioning valve - open to suggestions for brands.

Goliardi

Eureka!

Took off fan spacer, added electric fan in front of radiator (overkill but it worked), turned timing dooowwwn, and in Alabama heat - runs an even 200 degrees during day, 180 at night with rapid changes in speed.

Replaced original Q-jet with extremely nice replacement from Troy Thornton (thank-you Troy) and no pings no knocks, no overheating, and the four disc brakes work much much better - still curious if I need a new master cylinder and proportioning valve?

Ran strong and responsive from 0-triple digits. Handles nice and extremely Cutlass Supreme like on the flats and much tighter in the corners.

Goliardi

Anyone recommend a master cylinder and proportioning valve for front and rear disc brakes?

HWYSTR455

Yes, the 9" dual diaphragm booster and a disc/disc combo valve. The combo/proportioning valve is specific for disc/disc setups, as is the master. The best master to use, for capacity, availability, and performance is the standard 'vette style master.

Did you remove the original combo valve on the frame rail? If not, that's an issue, since it's for a disc/drum setup.

Contact Pirate Jack Brakes, best deals on boosters, masters, and combo valves.

http://www.piratejack.net/

You can look at my build thread, I use that master/booster/combo valve setup on all my a-bodies.

Have to make sure you bleed the heck out of the system too. Once it's bled, bleed it 2 more times. You would be shocked how much it takes to bleed.

Just looked at your pic, that's a disc/drum master, or appears to be. The vette masters have the same size front and rear reservoirs, disc caliper pistons take more fluid to articulate.

.

Goliardi

Thank-you. Going to double check vacuum and then invest in disc/disc MC and proportioning valve.

Also extremely glad to say that my first tank of gas did not involve a roll back and had an average mpg of 8.

MarkyMark14

Im new here guys but im glad to see theirs more oldsmobile guys in Alabama than just me, Im from blount county but Chop is one of me and my grandfathers close friends cuz all we work with is olds

Goliardi

I am over in St. Clair County. Welcome and if you need anything off a 72 Cutlass let me know (have misc. parts). - Alex