New VIN sticker...

Old September 9th, 2018, 12:32 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 72455 View Post
Here's what my car is equipped with:
L75 455 engine
TH400 transmission (column shift)
Air conditioning (not comfortron)
Remote driver door mirror
Power driver seat
Tilt wheel
JL2 brakes
N10 dual exhaust
G80 anti spin differential
Power steering

How can we determine the added weight?
I'm sure it's not possible as the records that would show the weights of these have probably long been discarded.

But most of them would add just a few pounds at most, so their effect would be in the tens place on the weight, not the hundreds or thousands. A remote mirror is maybe 1 lb in extra weight. Power steering is probably mostly the added weight of the pump, a few pounds. Tilt wheel probably too small to mention. A/C certainly as the compressor alone is 30 lbs or more, and all the added parts probably add up to well over 50 lbs. Dual exhaust will add some poundage as well.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 12:36 PM
  #42  
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There you go

Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
It doesn't. It just shows all the options that were available. All the various combinations that could have been ordered means that few cars weighed exactly the same amount.

But you know what? WHO CARES? Put whatever numbers you want on the sticker. Who would ever question them? Who, besides you, would ever know that they weren't exactly correct?

The details on the sticker I had made were from a photo of my original door sticker

You could try the SX Cutlass website and see if they would have an "original" exact tag / sticker for you to copy. My window sticker for 1972 v code shows no weights and would not be correct if it did...

Cheers
b

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Old September 9th, 2018, 12:42 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
Pain in the *** for who? Not worth it for who? Bob? Or you? Why? Too costly? That sticker you show looks pretty good. What's not worth it about it?
BOB told me it was a waste of his time......

Not enough money for a pain in the ***.

If you hired him to restore your oldsmobile he would make an accurate repro door VIN sticker for you for a reasonable amount.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 12:50 PM
  #44  
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Brian - how interesting. Your 72 CS vert rolled off the same assembly line as my 72 Cutlass S. And judging by the VINs our cars were built within 2 days of each other. My last 6 are 208783. I know my body shell started assembly at FBW on April 7 and the car was sent to final production, completed and delivered off the line on April 10.

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Old September 9th, 2018, 01:03 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
I'm sure it's not possible as the records that would show the weights of these have probably long been discarded.

But most of them would add just a few pounds at most, so their effect would be in the tens place on the weight, not the hundreds or thousands. A remote mirror is maybe 1 lb in extra weight. Power steering is probably mostly the added weight of the pump, a few pounds. Tilt wheel probably too small to mention. A/C certainly as the compressor alone is 30 lbs or more, and all the added parts probably add up to well over 50 lbs. Dual exhaust will add some poundage as well.
Plus another 50 for the big block over the small block, right?
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Old September 9th, 2018, 01:05 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
But most of them would add just a few pounds at most, so their effect would be in the tens place on the weight, not the hundreds or thousands. A remote mirror is maybe 1 lb in extra weight. Power steering is probably mostly the added weight of the pump, a few pounds. Tilt wheel probably too small to mention. A/C certainly as the compressor alone is 30 lbs or more, and all the added parts probably add up to well over 50 lbs. Dual exhaust will add some poundage as well.
Dan, when was the last time you actually worked on any of these systems? Power steering pump is a good 30 lbs, and the the hoses and pump and fluid add about 10 more. AC? Lets not forget ALL the AC components - like compressor mounts, pulleys, belts, compressor, condenser, cooler, POA valve, Lines, heater assembly, heavy duty cooling system and shroud etc?? It's not just an oh hum one piece and you're done situation - AC is a major modification to a build. An automatic transmission is also going to add a lot more weight than a standard. Same with an FE2 suspension, another 100+ lbs for a 455 etc.....There's a whole lot more than 'just a few pounds' involved. That's why I conservatively estimated at least another 300-400 lbs from the standard offerings.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 01:24 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Brian - how interesting. Your 72 CS vert rolled off the same assembly line as my 72 Cutlass S. And judging by the VINs our cars were built within 2 days of each other. My last 6 are 208783. I know my body shell started assembly at FBW on April 7 and the car was sent to final production, completed and delivered off the line on April 10.

CRAZY

VIN ALMOST MATCH BROTHER!
CHEERS


1 in a million???
mine has broadcast card W29 convert
protecto-plate and docs from california

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Old September 9th, 2018, 01:51 PM
  #48  
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Brian, what I also notice about your VIN door sticker and mine - the GVWR is not an exact addition of the GAWR Front and Rear. I don't profess to know why that is, but it's also a similarity I didn't overlook. I also have my broadcast card but it's not a W29 in box 12.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 02:10 PM
  #49  
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Here's my final rendition. Allan, is my weight estimate in the ball park?

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Old September 9th, 2018, 02:50 PM
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Gross Vehicle Weight = 3728?

I weighed my convertible with half a tank of gas and just my skinny a$$ in it and got right over 4000 pounds. After subtracting out the gas, me, and junk in the trunk I calculated the bare vehicle was ~3800 pounds
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Old September 9th, 2018, 03:20 PM
  #51  
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His isn’t a convertible so it’s lighter. Looks you forgot the 3 on the VIN this time.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 03:53 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by 72455 View Post
Here's my final rendition. Allan, is my weight estimate in the ball park?
No, not even close. How did you come up with only 400 lbs added to the curb weight to = GVWR?? Please read the explanation I gave you earlier to determine that number or use the estimates I gave you earlier. Your car is way over what you are thinking- and as noted your VIN starts with 3J

GVWR on the other hand includes EVERYTHING including the weight of passengers, full tank of fuel, and cargo. Assume that your average person weighs 160 lbs (likely more) and that cargo would be around another 150+ lbs. Now add the total weight and you get 3499 + 640 + 150 + (fuel) 120 + options (guesstimate 300-400 lbs) = 4809

If I take the ratio of 1964/3499 and 1535/3499 I get 56% and 44% respectively which should be the weight (axle) distribution. If you assume your car is a GVWR of 4809, that would break down as follows: Front GAWR 2693 and Rear GAWR 2116 These numbers I've posted are hypothetical based on what I remember your car has for options.
GVWR 4809 GAWR Front
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Old September 9th, 2018, 04:03 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Fun71 View Post
After subtracting out the gas, me, and junk in the trunk I calculated the bare vehicle was ~3800 pounds
Kenneth that's just the shipping weight of the vehicle. CURB weight for your car is 3837 lbs according to GM documentation. Fuel will weigh 137 lbs and coolant another 34 lbs. Now start adding options, passengers, cargo, and you get GVWR. Your car should easily be about what mine is, or even more since the vert frame alone is heavier. Unfortunately your car is a 71 so it won't have any of this information printed on the door VIN sticker. The OP has a 4257 and I calculated his GVWR and GAWR's using the same documentation and process.

EDIT: Note Brian's VIN door sticker for his 72 4267. It's going to be really close to what your car is, and it's got a whopper of a GVWR

Last edited by Allan R; September 9th, 2018 at 04:06 PM.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
No, not even close. How did you come up with only 400 lbs added to the curb weight to = GVWR?? Please read the explanation I gave you earlier to determine that number or use the estimates I gave you earlier. Your car is way over what you are thinking- and as noted your VIN starts with 3J

GVWR 4809 GAWR Front
Check on that...those are the numbers I will use. Just can't imagine it weighing 2 1/2 tons. And I'll fix the VIN...doh!
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Old September 9th, 2018, 04:36 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by 72455 View Post
Check on that...those are the numbers I will use. Just can't imagine it weighing 2 1/2 tons. And I'll fix the VIN...doh!
Dave, you're not understanding the GVWR. It's not what the car weighs as it sits in your driveway - it the FULLY LOADED car that's going to weigh that much - distributed over the 2 axles. Your basic car with no one in it is likely going to weigh around 4000 lbs or so. If you REALLY want to know how much your car weighs, go to a truck scale and have it weighed. I don't think they charge for that and you'll know exactly how much it weighs with the options in it, plus you and a full tank of gas. After that you can factor in the weight of cargo and 3 more passengers. How's that for a fair and equitable solution to this whole thing? I think my numbers are really close to what you'll find out.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 04:46 PM
  #56  
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To help you understand the GVWR go back to this permanlink and look at the numbers That's for Dans 78 Toronado XSR. That's in an era when the E body car was still large but there were significant moves on weight reduction. Even with a small block 403, that cars GVWR was over 6000 lbs (3 tons). And honestly there's some basic similarities in options that weigh the same, and trunk space in the 77/8 Toronado is pathetically less than even the Cutlass, which means less or similar cargo capacity.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Dave, you're not understanding the GVWR. It's not what the car weighs as it sits in your driveway - it the FULLY LOADED car that's going to weigh that much - distributed over the 2 axles. Your basic car with no one in it is likely going to weigh around 4000 lbs or so. If you REALLY want to know how much your car weighs, go to a truck scale and have it weighed. I don't think they charge for that and you'll know exactly how much it weighs with the options in it, plus you and a full tank of gas. After that you can factor in the weight of cargo and 3 more passengers. How's that for a fair and equitable solution to this whole thing? I think my numbers are really close to what you'll find out.
Lol Allan...it's not that serious for me to have it weighed. I'm just gonna go with your estimate and call it a day. And after all that, I got impatient and missed the "3" in my VIN on my last attempt. Problem is, I stuck it on my car, so now I have to order another sticker, but that's ok, I won't make the same mistake again.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 06:46 PM
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It's been a fun thread. Glad you have it all figured out now and know how to finish this project. Such a fun hobby isn't it? Lots and lots of learning and sharing.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
It's been a fun thread. Glad you have it all figured out now and know how to finish this project. Such a fun hobby isn't it? Lots and lots of learning and sharing.
You got that right😀😀😀
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Old September 10th, 2018, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Kenneth that's just the shipping weight of the vehicle.
That's what I was trying to point out to 72455 - his FULLY LOADED car can't possibly weigh 300 pounds less than my UNLOADED car. I think you finally convinced him, so all is well.
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Old September 10th, 2018, 02:58 PM
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Well since my handiwork showed up on this thread.
Back when I made these I had a program for printing that wouldn't work when I upgraded to a faster computer and changed from windows XL to windows 7. I actually scanned a bunch of tags, then cleaned up the files in MS Paint and then cut - pasted the individual numbers and letters to create different tags. It was a fun exercise but just took a ton of time. I was disappointed when I discovered that I had to get my old computer out of the attic and hook it up just to make more tags. Then just now I tried to post a picture of the blank tag I created, however I made these in TIF file format which is a larger file that's not internet friendly. ~BOB
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Old September 10th, 2018, 03:11 PM
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Bob, when you make these tags, do you have a list of option weights that can be added to the Curb weight to get the final GVWR and GAWR F/R? I noted that some GAWR weights don't necessarily add up to GVWR and i wonder if you could shed some light on that?
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Old September 10th, 2018, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Carshinebob View Post
Well since my handiwork showed up on this thread.
Back when I made these I had a program for printing that wouldn't work when I upgraded to a faster computer and changed from windows XL to windows 7. I actually scanned a bunch of tags, then cleaned up the files in MS Paint and then cut - pasted the individual numbers and letters to create different tags. It was a fun exercise but just took a ton of time. I was disappointed when I discovered that I had to get my old computer out of the attic and hook it up just to make more tags. Then just now I tried to post a picture of the blank tag I created, however I made these in TIF file format which is a larger file that's not internet friendly. ~BOB
Bob, where do you plug in your 5.25" and 3.5" floppy disks on the new computer ?<--HUMOR I try to make copies of everything on two different external hard drives. You never know what WON'T work til after you change computers. Good thing you saved the old one.
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Old September 10th, 2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Bob, when you make these tags, do you have a list of option weights that can be added to the Curb weight to get the final GVWR and GAWR F/R? I noted that some GAWR weights don't necessarily add up to GVWR and i wonder if you could shed some light on that?
I've noticed that too and have no idea. The copies I looked at just now; if I add both front and rear the total would be between 20lbs to 100lbs more than what the total GVW # that's listed.
A couple of other things. 1. I've seen different GVW #s for the same body style and can't explain that either. 2. I think the GVW info shows up on tags after the 1st of the year 1972. ~BOB
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