tmaleck

I haven't been around much lately, getting back to normal after the flood. The Olds didn't fair very well, and I had considered selling it. I had bought a 403 a couple years back and figured what the hell, might as well put that in, a running car would be worth a bit more. I asked around at a couple shops, and when you started to add up the 'might as wells', it got up over 3k in a hurry just to swap out the motor.
I figured for that kind of money, might as well buy parts and do it myself (sort of). My health won't allow me to crawl around under stuff, so I asked a couple of friends to help out. I paid them a fair price to help, and offered to teach them what I've learned over the years about cars and such. I saw the new FiTech system on one of the Sunday car shows, and got the base kit, since I had a few leftovers from the first attempt not ruined by the flood. I added a Derale remote trans cooler, Rostra cruise control, 3 row Champion aluminum radiator with dual fans, hella headlights and other stuff. I have a set of NOS small block Hooker headers, but I'm starting it with Thorton 350 Jr manifolds.

We started on Memorial day weekend, and every weekend since. Thought we were ready last night, as the car passed all smoke tests. Cranked it off and on and figured out no fuel. The brand new in-tank pump from Spectra was Dodo'd. But we're close and I had to share at least one pic of the almost complete project. Hopefully next weekend...

The gal laying over the motor is my friend America (that really is her name) and the other is my S.O. Jennifer.
Tim

oldcutlass

You had a bit of rain there also I see. System looks great, can't wait to hear on how well it works.

1970-W30

How long did it take to get your FiTech? I ordered the basic unit from Jeggs April 5 and still haven't received it yet! Getting tired calling them and FiTech. If mine does arrive before my new engine is ready, which is soon, I'm going with the Holley Sniper even though it's a few hundred bucks more!

tmaleck

I ordered through Pace Performance. They have some kind of sweetheart deal with FiTech.
I was initially told three weeks, but it showed up in ten days. This was in mid May when I ordered.
Tim

olds 307 and 403

I was going to suggest the Holley Sniper since it is the same price AND it controls timing. But Jeggs is showing October when it will ship!

tmaleck

FiTech also controls timing. 600 hp units have a 3x3 matrix, adjustable through the controller (which is way cool). Power adder units are laptop programmable with a 12x12 matrix.
Tim

olds 307 and 403

Does the Fitech control a CCC HEI distributor?

olds403

I just did a Fitech on an Olds403 as well. Works very well for what it is and will not run s Hei. Using msd 6530.

olds 307 and 403

Thanks, that tells me the Holley has some advantages over the Fitech. Curious how either works with more radical cams? Glad to hear guys are getting nice improvements over carbs with the Fitech.

hookem horns

Sorry to hear the flood got you but glad see you are so close on the engine.

Nonstop rain in the spring and now bone dry so I guess they will call it an "average" year.

dc2x4drvr

The Fitech EFI is on my to-do list, there's a big thread over on Team Chevelle, and the 'stang and vette guys have done a few installs.
I also like the idea of an in tank pump vs the Fitech command center pump.
Nice installation!

tmaleck

I did a lot of reading too, and saw some of people were not totally pleased with the long term performance of the 'Command Center'. I had bought a Spectra FI tank last year in preparation for the Professional Products EFI installation. That system did not get rave reviews for the pump in that kit. The Spectra tank was reasonably priced from Rock Auto, and I had the 10% off coupon, so I went that way. I had read the Spectra pump was noisy and short lived, but I figured it would be OK for a while. Turns out I was wrong.

The only real trick to using the Spectra tank is it uses the GM 16mm fuel line fitting on the pressure side. Took me a long time to find the correct 16mm to 6-AN adapter. It does make for a clean installation though.

To document what I did, the Spectra tank for 1967 Cutlass with two vent connections is GM37GFI. The adapter is an Earls 9894DBJ 16mm to 6-AN. I replaced the Spectra pump with a Walbro kit GCA758-2. I'll post next week if that did the trick.

oddball

Sorry about the flood, but looks like things are coming back together!

Did you get a picture of the sump area on the Spectra tank? Their first generation was pretty bad (the sump was a little tray mounted to the pump), but looks like the new ones should be better.

tmaleck

I did not take a picture, but I checked that when I first got the tank ready to install. They have a tin box around the pickup area, which is where the return is also. This appears to be their answer to the fuel starvation issue.
Tim

tmaleck

It Lives! Dead tired and filthy , but she had her inaugural drive around the block. Will figure out posting video tomorrow. Whoever says 403's can't make power needs to go for a ride! FiTech system gets better as it runs. Already smooth idle and good throttle response.
Tim

Eddie Hansen

Great Looking Build, and thanks for sharing!! following along for updates

Rick Finsta

Cool project, good to hear you've got it sorted.

FWIW the FiTech can physically use an HEI distributor, but won't use the module; FiTech doesn't support the installation in their manual per se, but the information is there if you know what you're looking for. The reluctor and VR Sensor in an HEI are the same as something like an MSD, but you'll have to bypass the module. You just have to think of it as "single coil control using a VR sensor in the distributor" and the installation would be straightforward.

I just hate to see people running out and buying a different distributor just because it has handy purple/green wires coming out of it already, when a few spade connectors, some wire, and some sort of lockout mechanism is all you really need.

olds 307 and 403

So how is the spark duration controlled, the Fitech ECM? I like the idea of an EFI system constantly varying timing depending on load through a distributor like the factory CCC HEI.

tmaleck

Now that I have the car running, I realize I should have checked the block for old coolant. The P.O. had drained all the fluids, but forgot the block. So now I get to flush my brand new radiator and cooling system. Otherwise, I hope to get it inspected and registered next week.

In terms of timing control, there are two options. The basic 600 hp unit has a simple timing control interface built into the remote programmer. You can set up the timing curve using only teh programmer, and you have basic options only. I chose to start me car on my external Mallory Unilte, so I have not spent much time with the feature yet. I will as I move forward in the build. I too have a CCC distributor and would like to use it. It can also trigger external ignition boxes, I have an MSD unit to work into this at some point as well.

The Power Adder units also have a laptop interface, and a more intricate timing control matrix. I did not buy this unit, as I have no plans for a power adder, so I can't be of any help there.
Tim

olds 307 and 403

Great to hear it is running well and let me know if that CCC distributor works out.

Rick Finsta

With direct coil control, you are doing with the new ECU exactly what a CCC setup is doing. I don't have any information on the table resolution with the CCC, however.

The Go EFI 4 600HP gives you a 3x3 ignition table using the hand held controller, which while not ideal will honestly cover most of your needs, especially if it is interpolating between points (which you could check free-revving with a timing light). As far as spark duration, I'm assuming you meant coil dwell? It looks to be fixed when using the controller but I'm trying to get the number from them and also get a hold of the "Pro Level Software" to take a look through and see what else they have in there.

Rick Finsta

Okay, I got this reply from FiTech:

I asked if this was available on the non-power-adder interface so unless he skimmed over that part of the question it looks like you can get at the "pro tuning" options in a controller even if it wasn't set up to be tune able using the software. He also neglected to answer what the defaults are.

cutlassefi

I'm not going to point out the obvious but yes it interpolates, the same way it does on the fuel table.
And a 3x3 table isn't much better than a std distributor curve, what do they use for the X and Y axis? If it's not temperature influenced then it's a further waste. Throttle bodies in particular can benefit from the option of added spark when cold as they tend to puddle more than a multiport will.

Hope this helps.

cutlassefi

You know the more I think about this statement the more pissed off I get.
You basically called me everything but a human being over on ROP, questioning my EFI experience. Do you actually think the timing will jump from one number to the next with no interpolation? Really?
And btw, you never answered the questions I asked you on my last post there. Cat got your tongue?

Whatever.

To the op, I wish you the best in your project.

coppercutlass

Just cheking in to see how the FI tech works out.Im intrested in it for my next build. Its either custom built carb or FI tech. Nice looking set up BTW keep us posted.

Rick Finsta

There have been systems that process fuel and/or ignition using discrete bin values; I try not to make assumptions. This system either has defined regions that are either all populated with the input value, or they are smoothed between the input values of the different regions. While not ideal, there are innumerous tunes out there running the former. Subsequently, there may or may not be interpolation by the firmware between bins in operation. I don't know, which is why I so phrased my response.

You stated definitively you knew how this system processed the data, but then stated that you didn't even know the X and Y axis of the table, which sounds suspiciously like you're making assumptions and don't actually know. That's certainly your modus operandi.

To which thread on ROP are you referring? The one where you espoused the virtues of ignition control for maximum power and then told everyone you had no idea how one would actually use ignition timing for maximum benefit, without realizing you had done so? Where you then tried to tell me that the term for the outcome of such testing used for a hundred years by everyone from researchers to Formula teams is somehow insufficient?

You seriously need to reel your neck in. I'm on these forums to enrich myself and others; you're hanging about to sling parts and engorge your ego, it seems.

cutlassefi

[QUOTE=Rick Finsta;938633]
You stated definitively you knew how this system processed the data, but then stated that you didn't even know the X and Y axis of the table, which sounds suspiciously like you're making assumptions and don't actually know. That's certainly your modus operandi.

To which thread on ROP are you referring? This one;
http://realoldspower.prophpbb.com/topic10915-20.html

The one where you espoused the virtues of ignition control for maximum power and then told everyone you had no idea how one would actually use ignition timing for maximum benefit, without realizing you had done so? Where you then tried to tell me that the term for the outcome of such testing used for a hundred years by everyone from researchers to Formula teams is somehow insufficient? I clearly explained myself, even acknowledging that most of what you said was correct. But you're the one the slung the mud DUDE.

You seriously need to reel your neck in. I'm on these forums to enrich myself; yeah hang onto that, it seems you need to.[QUOTE]

You obviously have the book smarts, but that doesn't mean squat in my experience. I've fixed lots of tunes from guys like you.

Have a nice day.

tmaleck

The work is almost done. Had a setback this weekend, the fuel pump wire got loose and found the exhaust pipe. Smoked the ECU. FiTech will repair the unit on a two day turn for $250, so I can't complain about that. My recommendation would be to add a fuse to the fuel pump lead as close to the throttle body as possible, now we know there is no protection if that wire is shorted to ground.
I also seemed to have solved my overheating issue. I installed a Koolflow high volume water pump and a bottle of water wetter. Not sure about the claims either one makes, but together my temp went from 220 and climbing at idle to 195 steady. The stock rebuilt pump I took off hand one of those stamped impellers with a lot of space between the vanes. Who know, but if it stays cool, I'm happy.

Other than those little incidents, the learning curve on the FiTech system is pretty fast, and it is really responsive. I can't get over the lack of unburned fuel smell I used to get with the Holley. All that's left is to finish installing the Rostra cruise control, repair the ECU and tidy up a few loose ends. Next is inspection, plates and a few top down miles.
Tim

tmaleck

One final wrap up on this. I continued having cooling system issues and overheating. The engine would hit 220+ after just 6-8 minutes of idling. Upon shutdown, the radiator cap would pop, and spray coolant everywhere. I found an online article from Hotrod.com (http://www.hotrod.com/articles/1965-...erheating-fix/) about an El Camino with similar issues. It had some great ideas. First, the upper radiator hose has a curve to clear the fan blades. The top of the curve was above the radiator cap opening, trapping air. I had the same problem.
Next was the radiator cap. The one that came with the radiator was bad, poorly made and incorrect spring on the relief pressure. I put on new Stant 16 lb. cap.
Finally, I decided to follow the advise of some other articles and forums and go back to a fan clutch with fan and shroud. Trouble was, my original would not fit. It was too long. I had radiator that was at least an inch wider in the core (probably more, the radiator in the car was a plastic Spectre piece), and the newer 403 and pulleys used a 1/2 inch longer water pump. After a ton of research, I found out my clutch was off an 84 Cutlass with a 3.8 V6. I only had about 3 3/4 inches from the pulley to the radiator. Hayden makes a HD fan clutch for old GM's that fit the pump and fan and was only 2.7 inches overall length. The Hayden number is 2947. If your water pump pulley does not have studs, I would highly recommend them. Getting bolts into position was a bear given the tight clearance from the fan blade to the mounting flange.

I used the factory plastic shroud. The Hotrod.com article said to have about half the blades sticking out the back of the shroud. Mine's a bit deeper, I can't bring it back to get more than 1 inch of the blade exposed. This seems to work pretty well in my case.

I also put in a 160 degree high flow 'stat. After all was said and done, the car idled at about 165 degrees. Going down the road with the A/C on averaged 175, even on the highway at 70 mph. Idle temps rose to about 185 with A/C on. Guess I need to put the 180 'stat back in. Getting Edelbrock manifolds and cast iron thermostat housings to seal is such a pain, I may leave it for now.

The second EFI unit works pretty well out of the box. I've seen a few things that need adjustment, so I'm learning EFI tuning as I go. The last big thing is the Rostra cruise control. It's installed, but not working. Maybe next weekend...

Tim

oldcutlass

Glad you worked through the unfortunate shorting issue and its coming together.

olds 307 and 403

My 403 was a challenge to cool as well, glad you got it figured out. Try a double gasket on the water neck with RTV between layers and all sides, just don't go nuts. Also use thread sealant or Teflon tape on both bolts.

GammaFlat

I've got the same scenario. Thanks for the tips - I'll use them very soon!