67 Cutlass Holiday Coupe, 1 owner restoration project

Old February 26th, 2018, 11:48 AM
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67 Cutlass Holiday Coupe, 1 owner restoration project

I'm several months into a restoration project of my mother's 67 Cutlass. She bought the car new in 67 in Dallas and it is time to bring it back to its former glory- or better. It has spent the majority of its life outside and was not running from 2000 till 2012. I got it running again in 2012, and parked it in a garage until several months ago when it was moved to the garage where the work is being done. The plan is to rebuild the original engine (330) and transmission (2 speed with switch pitch), upgrade the suspension and add front disc brakes. Also plan to add dual exhaust and most likely add 442 badging and a louvered hood (if I can find one!) Also planning to get rid of all the rust and repair the metal, new interior and paint.
1967
November 2017
November 2017- the black paint was added in 2012. It is not an original 442.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 12:25 PM
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So a little more history about the car... The car was driven by my mother as her daily driver from 1967 until 1984. It then sat outside at their house in Dallas until 1990 when my father rebuilt/restored it the first time for my brother and I to drive in high school. He rebuilt the engine and did some body work and a new paint job. As we will find out later, it was in a pretty bad hail storm at some point in time. I drove the car from 1994 until 2000 as my daily driver. I got another car at that point and the cutlass was parked at my parents house again outside until 2012. I got it running again in 2012 (and added a HEI distributor) and moved it into a dry storage facility- I started it about once per year until 2017. When I started the engine in November 2017 to drive it to another garage for restoration, it started up easily. 330 V8, 2bbl carb, 2 speed trans with switch pitch, single exhaust disassembly about to begin, November 2017




some significant rust from leaky batteries on the front left inner fender and core support that needs repair
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Old February 26th, 2018, 12:59 PM
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The engine and trans are now out. The engine is being sent to Speed Specialties Racing Engines in Balch Springs TX for a total rebuild/parts upgrade and likely bore and new custom hydraulic cam. I will include all of the specs and changes made to the engine when it gets back to the shop. Adding a different manifold for 4bbl carb- and we have talked a little about adding fuel injection. Transmission is already back from being rebuilt by the gents at Plano transmission. They said they don't see many switch pitch torque converters anymore and sent that part off to a specialty shop somewhere else in the county for a heavy duty rebuild. I'm not sure where the stall is set- will find that out.
about to scrape off 50 years of grease and dirt



330 V8 original engine



switch pitch torque converter, 2 speed (I think?) automatic transmission, column shift cleaning up the frame. Control arms are being cleaned up and reused. All of the other suspension parts are being replaced.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 01:26 PM
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Disassembly of the front continues. I'm wire brushing the firewall and frame, prepping for paint. control arms and front suspension about to get removed cleanup continues prepping the front of the frame for POR 15

Painted with 2 coats of POR 15. The paint is dry in this picture.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 01:36 PM
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Looks pretty solid.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 02:53 PM
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Decoding the cowl tag. There's something odd going on because both the cowl tag and the VIN say that this car is a Deluxe F-85 V-8, NOT a Cutlass. Was that Cutlass badging on the sides and trunk added at a later date? Perhaps when the car was repainted the first time by your father in 1990?





07D = build date, 4th week of July. I assume July 1967, which means it's among the last '67 models built that year.
67 = model year
3 = Oldsmobile
36 = Deluxe F-85 with V-8 engine
17 = Holiday Coupe (two-door hardtop)
LAN = Lansing assembly plant
18656 = Fisher body number
TR 936-A = Turquoise Vinyl (Aqua) Bench Conventional Bench Seat
First Paint K = Aquamarine lower body color
Second Paint K = Aquamarine upper body color
E = tinted windshield and windows
2E = air conditioning


VIN Decode

336177M414556

3 = Oldsmobile
36 = Deluxe F-8 with V-8
17 = hardtop coupe
7 = model year
M = Lansing assembly
414556 = production sequence number at Lansing. The starting sequence number was 100001, so this is a high number, consistent with the late model-year build date.


Only one Cutlass series was produced in 1967, and it carried series designation 38. So if your car were a Cutlass, the first three digits of the VIN would be 338, not 336. The cowl tag number would also be 33817, not 33617.

As I said at the top, both the VIN and the cowl tag say that this car is not a Cutlass. It's a Deluxe F-85 V-8.

The various A-body series' that year, from the 1967 Chassis Service Manual, were

33300 = Standard F-85 with L-6 engine
33400 = Standard F-85 with V-8 engine
33500 = Deluxe F-85 with L-6 engine
33600 = Deluxe F-85 with V-8 engine
33800 = Cutlass F-85 with V-8 engine.

The 00 places were for the body style, in this case 17, which means two-door hardtop (Holiday Coupe).
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Old February 26th, 2018, 03:08 PM
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Here's the full model designation page out of the '67 CSM. I put a red arrow showing your car.

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Old February 26th, 2018, 03:26 PM
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Thank you for this information. I guess I was just used to calling it a Cutlass. I found another picture from 67 with the cutlass badging on the left front- same as it is now. Is that not correct? Thanks again with helping me figure this out. 1967
original title
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Old February 26th, 2018, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by juliusz3 View Post
Thank you for this information. I guess I was just used to calling it a Cutlass. I found another picture from 67 with the cutlass badging on the left front- same as it is now. Is that not correct?
From your vintage photo, I would say that the car came originally with the Cutlass badging, so I'm not sure what to think. It's just that the VIN and cowl tag indicate Deluxe F-85, at least according to the chassis service manual model designations.

That's cool that you have the original title, but I don't think that's definitive as to the model designation as title office clerks do make errors, and the information they put on the title is only as good as the information supplied to them.


Maybe someone else will have an explanation.


P.S. Your mother was (is?) quite an attractive woman!
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Old February 26th, 2018, 03:45 PM
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I agree with the title possibly being in error. Let's see if we can figure out the answer to the puzzle! Yes she is a pretty lady. She doesn't know about the rebuild and going to hopefully surprise her with it.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 04:03 PM
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I always thought that it went as follows:
http://www.oldsmobility.com/oldsmo/v....php?f=12&t=18

33300 (F-85)
Standard F-85
L-6 Engine
Club Coupe (post)
Station Wagon - Two Seat
Four-door Town Sedan (post)

33400 (F-85)
Standard F-85
V-8 Engine
Club Coupe (post)
Station Wagon - Two Seat
Station Wagon - Three Seat Extended
Four-door Town Sedan (post)

33500 (Cutlass)
Deluxe F-85
L-6 Engine
Hardtop Holiday Coupe
Station Wagon - Two Seat
Four-door Hardtop Holiday Sedan
Convertible
Four-door Town Sedan (post)

33600 (Cutlass)
Deluxe F-85
V-8 Engine
Hardtop Holiday Coupe
Station Wagon - Two Seat
Four-door Hardtop Holiday Sedan
Convertible
Four-door Town Sedan (post)

33800 (Cutlass Supreme)
Cutlass F-85
V-8 Engine
Sports Coupe (post)
Hardtop Holiday Coupe
Convertible
Custom Station Wagon - 2 Seat Ext.
Custom Station Wagon - 2 Seat Ext.
Four-door Hardtop Holiday Sedan
Four-door Town Sedan (post)
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Old February 26th, 2018, 04:27 PM
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That is going to be a nice car once again. I know its a lot of work, and its going to be worth it! Thanks for sharing.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 04:29 PM
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Core support needed repair which has been done and sent off to powder coating with a bunch of other stuff. We decided to reuse the control arms so I got those cleaned up with a wire brush and angle grinder and prepped and painted with POR 15.
Left side of core support
repaired all of this, including core support off to be powdercoated semi-gloss black
upper control arms before
After POR 15
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Old February 26th, 2018, 04:42 PM
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Front disc brake, rear drum package from Summit with new spindles and Ride Tech Street Grip suspension added with new ball joints, springs, shocks, front and rear sway bar. There was no rear sway bar originally, but there were mounting holes present, so it bolted right on. While we are waiting on the engine to be rebuilt, we started stripping paint and fixing areas of rust.
several rusted out places down low on these panels on both sides
back left panel filled with bondo- will need repair
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Old February 26th, 2018, 04:45 PM
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NICE, back in the DAY I met W.O. Bankston on several occasions in Dallas. If you grew up in the Dallas area, you would also remember R.O. Evans Pontiac-GMC? His son Rusty and I were best friends back then. RO and WO were good friends as well. I worked for Jim Allee Oldsmobile then. He was a great guy. He started out selling Chevy's at Doran Chevrolet in the 60's until he got his own Oldsmobile deal. FYI-I have some new suspension parts and other junk etc. sitting on the shelve collecting dust in the shop form my 64 Pro-Touring build. Let me know if you need anything.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 04:58 PM
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The awesome cassette player is going away. We need to order new dash pad which I think we can get from OPG. The cigarette lighter got stuck on at some point and melted the bezel around it. Does anyone know if someone can refurbish this, or is there a replacement part available? In case anyone is wondering what tape that is... Van Halen, 1984. melted!
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Old February 26th, 2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
Decoding the cowl tag. There's something odd going on because both the cowl tag and the VIN say that this car is a Deluxe F-85 V-8, NOT a Cutlass. Was that Cutlass badging on the sides and trunk added at a later date? Perhaps when the car was repainted the first time by your father in 1990?





07D = build date, 4th week of July. I assume July 1967, which means it's among the last '67 models built that year.
67 = model year
3 = Oldsmobile

36 = Deluxe F-85 with V-8 engine
17 = Holiday Coupe (two-door hardtop)
LAN = Lansing assembly plant
18656 = Fisher body number
TR 936-A = Turquoise Vinyl (Aqua) Bench Conventional Bench Seat
First Paint K = Aquamarine lower body color
Second Paint K = Aquamarine upper body color
E = tinted windshield and windows
2E = air conditioning


VIN Decode

336177M414556

3 = Oldsmobile
36 = Deluxe F-8 with V-8
17 = hardtop coupe
7 = model year
M = Lansing assembly
414556 = production sequence number at Lansing. The starting sequence number was 100001, so this is a high number, consistent with the late model-year build date.


Only one Cutlass series was produced in 1967, and it carried series designation 38. So if your car were a Cutlass, the first three digits of the VIN would be 338, not 336. The cowl tag number would also be 33817, not 33617.

As I said at the top, both the VIN and the cowl tag say that this car is not a Cutlass. It's a Deluxe F-85 V-8.

The various A-body series' that year, from the 1967 Chassis Service Manual, were

33300 = Standard F-85 with L-6 engine
33400 = Standard F-85 with V-8 engine
33500 = Deluxe F-85 with L-6 engine
33600 = Deluxe F-85 with V-8 engine
33800 = Cutlass F-85 with V-8 engine.

The 00 places were for the body style, in this case 17, which means two-door hardtop (Holiday Coupe).
In the first picture with your mom the car has the f85 bumper and tail lights, a later picture shows it with a Cutlass bumper and lights.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
I always thought that it went as follows:
http://www.oldsmobility.com/oldsmo/v....php?f=12&t=18
But the chart further down that page shows the same thing that I posted above. There are two different charts there. One shows 33600 as being (Cutlass) in parentheses and then "Deluxe F-85 V-8 Engine" below it. Two tables below, it shows 33600 as being "Deluxe F-85 V-8 Engine" with no mention of Cutlass.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 07:28 PM
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I think the problem is that the service manual was printed early on, and the model designations changed before the cars went into production.

Here's a page from the '67 Dealer Specs Book. It shows the 36 series as being Cutlass and the 38 series as being Cutlass Supreme. The date of printing of the specs book is March 1967, well after the service manual would have been printed if the one I've been looking at was printed in time for the start of the model year.


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Old February 27th, 2018, 04:13 AM
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Dave is right, defiantly different tail lights in those 2 pics. Wow looks like you have some other neat projects going on also!
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Old February 27th, 2018, 05:01 AM
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The car is a Cutlass, not F-85 not a Cutlass Supreme. The early picture shows the Cutlass side chrome and correct rear bumper and reverse light location and trunk lid chrome. Yes a later picture shows a Supreme bumper so it was swapped. This is no biggie. The factory manual as said was printed early with 66 info carried over. The later spec sheet is accurate. Only the Cutlass Supreme got the dual brake light bumper with the reverse lights mover in toward the center.

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Old February 27th, 2018, 06:43 AM
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Too bad about the melted spot on the dash panel! It looks super clean other than that.
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Old February 27th, 2018, 08:53 AM
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It's becoming more clear now. Thanks for the info. I found some more old pics and apparently the bumper was switched- most likely during the 1990 remodel. I do remember now that there was a problem with the bumper. The exhaust for some reason was heating up that back right side of the bumper and caused some erosion? I had forgotten about that. I remember we had to be very careful around that back right side because it was so hot. I burned my leg on that old bumper! That must have been why it was switched to a different bumper. I will ask my dad and see if he remembers doing it. The picture in the snow (in Dallas- it never snows like this anymore!) was me in 77 or 78 and it still has the original bumper- and it looks like some rust or erosion developing on the back right. The other pics are from 1990.
1977 or 78. Original bumper. Dallas, TX
1990- I can't tell if this is the original or the switched supreme bumper, but I think it had already been replaced at this point. I remember the small wreck that took out the right front fender- Mom hit something.
bumper has been removed 1990
1990. Sweet paint booth Dad!
1990. Different bumper installed at this point.
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Old February 27th, 2018, 08:55 AM
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You sure do have some nice old photos!
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Old February 27th, 2018, 09:01 AM
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Its a real perk to have the history on a car. Nice work so far.
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Old February 27th, 2018, 04:18 PM
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All the pieces came back from 3D powder coating of Dallas today (not all are pictured). I think they turned out very well, especially the core support and the inner fenders (these are the originals). New dual exhaust manifolds for the 330 from Supercars Unlimited came back from 3D looking great with the new black ceramic coating. The radiator is now a 4 core (3 regular plus 1 high efficiency- I'm told) and came back to the shop a few weeks ago. The plan now is to start reassembling parts on the fire wall and hopefully the engine will be back in a few weeks. Paint stripping continues.


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Old February 27th, 2018, 05:02 PM
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Thank you for taking the time to share the pictures you have. Yes it should be a 2 speed transmission. But are you sure that the torque converter is a switch pitch? The reason I ask is I've been under the impression the switch pitch torque converters had extra weld dots on them. The photos below, the one on the left has the dots I'm describing. John






Weld dots



No dots
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Old February 27th, 2018, 06:25 PM
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juliusz3-I do not know much about the old 2-speed Jetaways, however if you let the people that are rebuilding your converter know your new cam specs, they be able to set you a new stall speed in your converter? Just thinking out loud
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Old February 27th, 2018, 11:56 PM
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AWESOME! Fantastic work ethic, and lotsa patience, seems to me. Can't wait to see the finished product. Anyone old enough on CO to remember Triangle Olds down on Cedar Springs (I think). My uncle Bodie was a salesman there, and I bought my '50 88 2 door post (used) from him in 1956 for $500.00. Oh, my goodness, sure wish I still had it!!!!
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Old February 28th, 2018, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 2blu442 View Post
Thank you for taking the time to share the pictures you have. Yes it should be a 2 speed transmission. But are you sure that the torque converter is a switch pitch? The reason I ask is I've been under the impression the switch pitch torque converters had extra weld dots on them. The photos below, the one on the left has the dots I'm describing. John

I honestly didn't know much about the switch pitch trans until we got it to the trans shop. The guys there told us all about them when they saw this transmission. I know that the transmission itself has the switch pitch feature and there is the mechanism on the fire wall that links it to the accelerator. Is it possible that the torque converter was changed to a non switch pitch the last time it was rebuilt (only 1 time)? Will that even work with this trans?



No dots
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Old February 28th, 2018, 05:01 AM
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That is so neat!! Looking good!
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Old February 28th, 2018, 06:16 AM
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I may have a line on a 442 hood? PM me if interested.

Nice work BTW.

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Old March 23rd, 2018, 09:49 AM
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Progress continues. Paint is now all off and down to bare metal. Rust areas in lower panels, trunk and front driver and passenger floors are being repaired. There are also several rusted out areas around the windshield. We are hoping that the rust around the back window isn't too bad, will find out soon.

rust holes to be filled on both sides of the trunk
back left
rust being cut out of the trunk and replaced
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 10:12 AM
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some rust holes at the front of the hood that will be cut out.
several rust holes on driver and passenger side that will be cut out
patch panel finished on the left side of the trunk
patch panel going into the trunk. I wonder how all this water got back here?? passenger side rust
driver side rust

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Old March 23rd, 2018, 10:21 AM
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floor patch panels complete and all holes welded, metal prepped for paint




POR 15 applied!
trunk
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 10:27 AM
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Uh oh. Found some pretty significant rust holes around the rear window that were previously filled with bondo. That repair is next.



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Old March 24th, 2018, 05:10 AM
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Looks good, I don't know if you have seen another members thread about repairing a 67 Cutlass rear window? He did a great job, you may want to look at it for pointers. His name was 67supreeeme.

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Old April 9th, 2018, 10:52 AM
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Rust repair continues...

Trunk, back window and windshield all had areas that needed repair.
swiss cheese
new fabricated piece being welded back in
new rear window piece in the weld process finished
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Old July 31st, 2018, 12:16 PM
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Progress slowed down a little this summer, but hopefully will pick up this fall. The engine is still at the rebuild shop, but should be finished soon. In the meantime, work continues on reinstalling the a/c and repairing the duct-work under the dash. The 10 bolt rear end is out for cleaning and repainting and adding different gears (3.7) and a posi.





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Old August 29th, 2018, 09:14 AM
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Body work is almost complete, now a rust free car. Primer is going on. Prepping the dash and inside doors for paint. New dash pad has been painted.





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