ACID64

Ok, so I'll be the first to admit, there is no good reason for me to be doing this project. I am completely inexperienced when it comes to classics, and I'm not a mechanic. I know how to take things apart... and if it's simple, I can usually get it back together. I lack organization, patience, skill, knowledge, cash and time. But... I have passion for what has potential for a cool car. So here I am.

ACID64

Initially the thought was to keep it all original and drive it around for a few years. Well after finding the original 330 needed some serious work I decided it would be better to pull it out and give it a quick refresh and then pop it back in.

I found a buddy just as naive as my self, and possibly even less experienced but willing to help. Free help is hard to come by and I wanted someone to share the joy of a rebuild with me. So we dug in.

ACID64

I read a few books on how to pull an engine and watched a few Youtube videos. So we became experts overnight! Well not exactly. We did do our best to label everything.

beebee78

Good luck that thing looks to be real solid and complete !! Nice find !

ACID64

Thanks its not quite as solid as I would have hoped, but was complete... until I got started.

ACID64

One of the suggestions I read was to take lots of pictures, so when it goes back in we could refer back to the pictures.

ACID64

So after disconnecting everything we thought necessary we started rocking and pulling. Lets just say that I think we had to stop a few times and disconnect a few more things. But it did come out!

ACID64

So after yanking the 330, I was ready to have it sent over to the machine shop to get cleaned up but wanted to find out what was causing the knock. A neighbor had suggested a rod or main bearing could be the cause.

We put the engine on a stand and flipped it over...

I'll have to share more detailed pictures later but the rear main bearing was nearly groveless, all the rod bearings were severely worn. One other thing noticed was one of the heads was rusted and had a bunch of gunk. All likely resulting from a blown gasket some place.

This led me to my next idea...

ACID64

After doing a little research (on here of course) I saw a few people had swapped their 330 for a 455. Well, I just so happened to have a friend selling a 455 from a boat which was fully dissembled. It was a decent deal, so I picked it up and started pricing out all the parts needed to complete it before going back into the car.

Who would have thought accessories and brackets can really start adding up! Some one with experience would know I'm sure. I also was concerned about bolting it up to the Jetway trans and it being able to handle any kind of horsepower/torque.

Long story short... I found another complete running 455 with a TH400 for a good price.

1 car garage, 3 engines and a motorcycle, doesn't leave much room for anything else!

ACID64

So this last weekend I received my new 330 engine mounts and bribed my friend to come down and help install the motor.

I sprayed a little paint to give it a cleaner look. Probably could have done a better job but for now I just want a running car and the next time the motor comes out I'll have it cleaned up a lot better.



Bought a cheap leveler, which I don't think the engine could have been installed without it.


The picture below is a good example of how to not install an engine with a trans into this car. It has to be angled from the driver to passenger side, plus, it helps to have all the parts that could get into the way removed. Notice something that might cause me grief? Like the crank pulley?

ACID64

So after figuring out the angle, and then removing the pulley, it was able to be wedged in a little further. But then ran into two issues on the drivers side 1. starter 2. the exhaust manifold.



After removing the manifold and starter, we lowered it down more.



We then found the A/C Compressor was hitting the passenger side fender and removed it.

ACID64

The next step was to jack the trans tail up and continue pushing it in. But being novices, we monkeyed with all kinds of ideas on how to get it to fit. Once we were about 3 inches from the engine mounts pads we found the trans needed to be lifted from the back to allow the engine to level out and get pushed further back. Had I not already read this was possible to do, I would have given up. It gets tight!

So the engine is in but there are a few problems that have yet to be resolved.
1. The drivers side valve cover is touching the brake booster.
2. The drivers side exhaust manifold is touching the frame.
3. The engine appears to be sitting at an angle.

Valve cover touching the brake booster.


Passenger side valve cover clearance is ok.


Maybe using the 455 engine mounts will drop it down more?


If the engine does drop down any further, the passenger side exhaust manifold will hit the suspension bolts.


The angle of the engine may be hard to notice in the picture, but it seems to slant towards the rear. I know I need to pick the trans up a little but I'm waiting on a 400 trans mount. Maybe this will level the engine some?

Oldsmaniac

Awesome job for 2 nubes, engine does teater back and forth till trans is bolted up to crossmember. You may need 65 or similar 442 exhaust manifolds in that chassis. I would forget the hot air tube from manifold up to air cleaner.

Oldsmaniac

Oh make sure you are using correct engine mount holes on block!

therobski

Your doing good, my thread "update progress on the 64 post" you may be able to pick up some tips. That is a nice car to start with!

gearheads78

great job so far and awsome looking project you have. You will probably need headers or 65-67 400 exhaust manifolds.

therobski

You can pickup some exhaust manifolds from a 65-67 442, but seen here on my 64 I'm using 70-W-Z's fit great no issues. I'm assuming those are big car exhaust manifolds you have. Most likely any A-body big block will work.
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therobski

Try and use the 330 A/C bracket if you have it. It should work, the only question I have is the pulley alignment for the belts. FYI the 64 radiator will never cool the 455 and plus the lower outlet is on the drivers side: a 64 one year only radiator.. Now what I did only because my 64 radiator was near perfect and it's a temporary fix until I build the 425 was I paid 65.00 and had the outlet moved to the pass side. Also I'm going electric fans with a shroud to cool the 400E. To come up with this temp solution I spent alot of time on the internet and phone. I still have not picked a dual fan set up yet, there is only 2 inches clearance between the water pump pulley and the radiator. Which ever one I pick will work with the bad boy 425 along with a custom built aluminum radiator. It's all fun but when you start modifying from original it's not "plug and play"

ACID64

Thanks for the tips, I pulled the 455 mounts off so I could use the 330 frame pads and mounts. I have the trans resting on the crossmember but still need a trans mount. I wonder if any TH400 mount will work?

ACID64

Yeah those manifolds look nice, so does your suspension arms, I'll probably have to go that route, you are correct the engine is out of a 72 olds 98.

ACID64

Thanks, I prefer headers but finding ones that will fit is my main concern.

ACID64

So this brings up a good point that I've been debating. I need a radiator that fits and from what I understand should be a 4 row. I'm hoping for finding something less than $200 but haven't had much luck. I'm wondering if the stock radiator from a Olds 98 would work. I'd rather not mess with the 330 radiator and have to spend more cash down the road.

Oldsmaniac

Any good name brand header that fits the 65 442 will work.

therobski

You will discover headers for these A bodys are not cheap, most of them except maybe for Smitty's will not plug and play either without some "massaging" In addition with a stock low compression 455 you will get very little benefit out of them.

ACID64

Thanks, so the 65 442 came with a 400, I'm assuming the 400 and 455 shared the same exhaust port outlets? I'm at the point of spending the money to do it right the first time. As therobski said, a low compression motor won't see a noticeable difference with headers but after the headers is the exhaust that needs to be re-done anyway so I might as well get everything I want now.

The next question is will the 65 442 exhaust fit? Or will this be something I should have custom built?

Oldsmaniac

Yes the 65 442 came with a 400 but the turbo 400 trans was not available but will work without problems as far as fitting in your 64. I would think the exhaust for the 65 442 would fit the 64 nicely. My brother has a 64 with 455 and turbo 400 and used Hooker headers with only slight tweaking as most headers need. I also think there are different sized vacuum boosters for the brakes. Yours looks pretty large.

therobski

Take a look at my thread, on a 64-65 frame you simply cannot bolt up the transmission cross member to accommodate a TH400. Because there was only the Jetaway and or a 3-4 speed manual in 64-65, the frame rails were not stamped out long enough to just slide the cross member back and bolt everything up. There some work to do including getting a few right parts for the parking brake to work for you.

Oldsmaniac

It has been so long ago since my brother and I did a similar swap I dont remember this being an issue but if it was I believe we got around it by using a cross member from a mid 60's B body and possibly cutting it down to size on each end... and then drilling some holes for mounting to the frame.

therobski

No problem there are guys that will simply slide the cross member back drill holes and bolt is together mashing the frame to the cross member and may have had no issues. And some guys have fabbed the 64 cross member on these early cars to work or spend 259.00 on an after market. I chose this route hoping that the pinion angle is right. The "wedge washers" I located at Fasenal. The plate is 1/8 inch plate steel.
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67 442

You are going to want to change out your front coil springs. That 455 is a fair bit heavier than your 330 was.

64Rocket

The only problem with the front springs is if they are sagging already. Other wise they will work fine. There is NOT a big diff in the 330 to the 455.
Any of the big block Olds header will work, with the engine in, you will have to remove the starter and the oil filter mount. Best to use the mini starter. The headers will go in from the bottom.
You should be able use all the Acc brackets from the 330 and be sure to use the engine mounts for the 330, which should be part #2261.
Get a front yoke for a T-400 and have your drive shaft shorten and install the yoke.

Gene

ACID64

Thanks, good tips!

ACID64

Ok for future swap reference here is a list of items that have to be changed or modified, let me know if I missed anything and I'll add it to the list.

For swapping the 330 & Jetaway to a 455 with TH400 (long tail shaft)
Must have:
-Keep 330 mounts #2261
-New 4 row radiator with proper inlet/outlet locations and new hoses
-A/C cars use the 330 brackets
-Shorten the drive shaft and use 400 yoke
-Move trans cross-member location towards the back of the car
-Floor shifter mount/brackets need adjustment

Change if necessary:
-Front springs to ??
-Smaller brake booster
-Headers or 65-67 422 exhaust manifolds
-Oil filter mount ??
-Swap to a mini starter

Good idea to change:
-Disc brakes

Did I miss anything?

therobski

Okay it's Friday, looking at your notes:

If you use A-body ( Cutlass is an A-Body) BB exhaust manifolds 65 on up there is plenty of clearance for the stock starter and the heat shield, It has plenty of cranking power. Again for sex appeal that's about your going to get out of headers on a low compression 455, until you decide to build a high performance 455. But hey if you got the $$$$ and you are going to build on later; go for it.

therobski

You will need the intermediate parking brake cable for a 67 with a TH400. I don't know about later years-but I'm sure that part number is good for many years I just know 67 works for me. On my 64 build that's all I needed when you re-fit your trans cross member all the other cables hook right up.FYI my 200R4 is postioned exactly were a TH400 would sit. Although I'm having a new drive shaft made my 64 Jetaway yoke and the length of the old drive shaft are both correct if I was to hook it all up to the 200R4.
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ACID64

After looking at these last photos you shared, I think I forgot to mention I have the TH400 with a long tail shaft. My cross member butts up against the body mounts, which may be why I might have fitment issues with my floor shifter.



I'll definitely have to create some type of shim to get the cross member to sit on there correctly but first I need a 400 mount. I suppose any mount from NAPA will work.

I'll have to double check my parking brake cables but I didn't notice any major issues with where they are now.

therobski

Trans mounts are a dime a dozen, to bad you don't live close. I have that kind of stuff laying around. Now I think what your trying to do ( ask the trans guys on our site) your trying to stuff a big car TH400 in the A-body. I have no experience with that task.

ACID64

So I found a recommended custom radiator company (Alumitech) from one of the Chevelle forums. The guy can build me a custom radiator, price is undetermined at this point. I just want to know if there are any other options of squeezing a stock 455 radiator in?

oldcutlass

I've never tried a long tailshaft 400, most of us use a short. You can reuse your ebrake cable by fabricating a shorter hook on the pasenger side of the transmission xmember. Your body has a flange mount radiator, so you can't use the radiator from the 455. Any 4 core radiator for an A body from 64-66 will work.

You might try the radiator for the 330 befor purchasing one. My BB works most of the time unless its really hot out.

64Rocket

The 65 to 67 radiators are of a different height. The bottom of the rad support has to be modified on the 64 Support to use the 65 & up Rad.
I cut my side panels of the support and modified the bottom some to get a bigger rad in.
Like has been said try the stock rad for the moment. Be sure to use a good fan, not the cheapo flex fan, they are junk. A good 7 blade with a clutch or check out Summit or Jegs for an electric fan set up.
You can use the 64 water pump on the 455 and then your stock Rad will hook up fine. And you can use all the brackets, pulleys, P/S pump, and Alternator from the 330. when you do that all the pulleys should line up.

Gene