Allan R

Sure starts up and run nice. BTW, Hope you didn't throw out the old carpet without taking the headlight switch grommet out. Most new carpets don't come with it.

How's the fan clutch on the car? Sounds really noisy. If that was a cold start that would explain it.

Rmsx327

We didnt! We kept the old carpet. Just pulled everything to see what we were working with, and did a temporary patch once we saw how bad it was.
It was a cold start. That was before we adjusted anything at all, though, and it's a lot better now.

Here's some stuff I never got around to putting up. (Little Lengthy)

-We got the original rally wheels from the seller, finally. Came with a bunch of extra goodies we didn't anticipate.
This is how we found them
C360_2012-05-04-20-06-54.jpg

This is how they ended up...
C360_2012-05-05-19-14-22.jpg
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C360_2012-05-05-12-02-02.jpg
C360_2012-05-05-12-47-38.jpg
C360_2012-05-05-17-52-13.jpg
C360_2012-05-05-17-58-46.jpg
C360_2012-05-05-09-29-33.jpg

-On my vacation to Florida, my mom and I randomly stopped at a flea market in Tennessee. After looking around for about an hour we were going to leave. But I saw a giant pile of 50+ tires, tons of rims, and engine blocks just randomly assorted in a field with a guy sitting in a lawn chair. So, naturally, I had to take a look. (I would've loved to get a picture, but it seemed a little awkward to pull out my cell phone and take some.)

Turns out, after digging through piles of newer plastic chevy rims and crap, I found 6 Center Caps, and a bundle of the beauty rings. (Of which I only needed 1) Being an avid "American Pickers" watcher, I used "the bundle" . (lol) I ended up getting 4 beauty rings (amazing condition for being out there, barely any scratches) and the 6 Center Caps for $75. Plus, I got the first experience of finding parts for my car as opposed to simply buying them online. Which felt really amazing, actually.

This was our temporary fix (We did the same for both sides)...
C360_2012-04-30-15-55-21.jpg

Here's the sub enclosure we made. It's easily removable, and we made the box around the body (Some kids cut their cars up just to put in subs ). So when I "grow up" and quit my annoying teenage thumping phase, it will be as if it was never there

-This was testing it, before we wrapped it
C360_2012-04-23-15-55-26-1.jpg
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-Here is the seat back in the car, with the cover on
C360_2012-05-05-12-02-15.jpg


---We got the battery tested, and it is fine. So we have a perfectly fine alternator, voltage regulator, and battery. But yet the car will not hold a charge... We're still messing around with things, but any guesses or advice would be very helpful. Sorry for the lengthy post! But I figured you guys deserved an update!

Allan R

Looks like you got a lot of stuff done. Nice going BTW on the parts picking. I know what you mean - it does feel good.

re: carpet. If it's in decent shape, you can use 'vinyl dye' to restore it to black. Also works on the door panels and door carpet if needed.

re: floor pan? Whatever works. I know its temporary till you get going on your welding course.

re: speakers - WOW! that looks kick ***!

I see you'll also need the quarter window rubber seals. They're not pricey and are fairly easy (sort of) to install. Trick is getting the old one off first. The new ones will slide in there with some soapy water solution. Once dry it's not moving.

The SSIII wheels and trim parts cleaned up very nicely. I'm more a fan of the silver on wheels, but that's an individual choice. The cool thing about these is you can always change colors if you feel like it, at very little cost.

Thanks for the update on this thread. Kind of wondered what happened for a while.

droptopron

How long does it sit before it goes dead? See what you are drawing at the battery when its sitting and narrow it down by going fuse by fuse.
I had the same issue with my car and it was giving me fits. My rebuilt alternator wasn't putting out enough so it was fine when driving but wouldn't put any charge on the battery.

Allan R

Wondering if a PO didn't tap into a always hot wire (like clock, cigar lighter, door jamb switches) causing a parasitic draw? Does the car have the optional light package?

Rmsx327

-------Replies--------
We used the dye on the door panels and it worked wonderfully! The carpet is a little torn up front, but is still fairly black. I'm just going to wait until I can buy all new carpet.
Yeah, the patch keeps my foot from going under Flintstones style , and keeps it water tight. Just gotta save up the money to patch it all up the right way!
Thanks! We had to take the subs from their original box, but they look awesome back their! Unique for sure.
I'm going to save up and probably just get a whole set for the car, because just about all of that stuff has rotted away or is barely hanging on.

------------Here's the issue---------------
The problem started after I left my headlights on. I got a jump from my friends Lancer, but it was nowhere near enough to turn my car over. It wouldn't even crank for a fraction of a second. His dad's SUV got my car going though. After that, I drove around. My headlights were VERY dim, so I turned them off. I drove around backroads to get some charge and not be caught by the cops. After a few minutes I turned my lights back on and they were as bright as normal. I drove home thinking everything was ok.
The next day I drove about 10 minutes away on the interstate for a parade thing. My car got their fine, started fine, but when I got there, my radio was flickering on/off for fractions of a second. So I just turned it off and left it that way.
I parked my car and came back 2 hours later, and it started right up. I moved it to another spot, closer to where I was hanging out with people. The radio worked on my way over, without flickering.
I came back to my car again, maybe 3 hours later, and it wouldn't start at all. It was completely dead.
I got a jump from an ambulance (I told a cop about 5 minutes earlier, and he said I needed to move along because I was in a restricted area and fireworks started in 20 minutes. Then he drove off without even OFFERING me a jump. )
ANYWAYS, I started driving. I did the same thing I did before, since it was almost dusk. My headlights were dim, but this time, driving around did nothing for them. I got back on the interstate and drove home (stupid in hindsight, considering I could've broke down) I drove without lights, occasionally turning them on, seeing if they were brighter.
My dad was standing in the driveway, and as I got to the foot of the driveway, without really thinking, I switched my headlights on, trying to show my dad that they were dim. Well, to my surprise, the car died the second I switched them on. Right at the bottom of the driveway.
At least she got me home safely! <3.

From there, we've gotten everything tested and it's all fine. All the things that could be sucking power unknowingly have been installed weeks before this event, and no problems arose. We're thinking that maybe the battery was just SO low after I drained it, that these extras could be draining it to the point where it effects it. Whereas when it's at 100% it's not a big deal. We got the battery fully charged, and will experiment today and tomorrow.

Rmsx327

-Oops
It DOES have the optional light package

Allan R

Wondering if it isn't linked to a faulty headlight switch?? I read somewhere there is a circuit breaker in there that can go bad.

Econow

Electrical problems like this are hard to trace. this sounds like a loose connection on the grounding. Check all main grounding points and clean well. Power only flows if there is a good connection. Try that and let us know.

Rmsx327

Well, we took a dremel to a lot of the points and took all the rust off just to be sure. We tested it and the car started perfectly, everything functioned, drove it around, and the battery maintained it's charge. The battery was low on water, so we fixed that. We dont own a battery charger, so we suspect that I just drained the battery so incredibly low that when I drove around trying to charge it after getting jumped, the alternator was doing everything just to keep the car going, and was unable to spare any charge for the battery. We got a new voltage regulator, checked all the wires, the alternator passed, so the only thing we could think of that was off was the dang battery. After we got it charged, everything's been going perfectly. I'm gonna be careful though, and carry around the volt-meter for awhile, and just check periodically when I go places to make sure nothing else is wrong.

Allan R

Battery low on water will definitely contribute to not keeping a charge. Hope you put in distilled water. Regular tap water isn't all that great for batteries. Fingers crossed for you and the battery.

Rmsx327

Yeah, we used distilled water!
I drove it around a bit the past few days, it's been running fine. I carried the volt meter around with me and constantly checked wherever I went. It was running around 12.4-12.6 when stopped, and it wasnt going down, thought everything was good. Today I drove around a bit, got back home and parked for about 30 minutes. Went back outside to start her and the GEN light comes on. I tested the battery and it was running 11.89 while the car was on, and 12.09 when it was off. I'm gonna keep her here and probably check and then double check a few wires tomorrow. Definitely some odd circumstances.

oldcutlass

Make sure that when your Ignition is off, that the amp for the stereo is off. You guys are doing some great work!

Rmsx327

We took off the amp awhile ago, just to eliminate that as a possible problem. And thank you! .

oldcutlass

Sounds like the alternator and/ or voltage regulator is not working. Also could be a shorted cell in the battery loading everything down.

Rmsx327

well that's whats so weird! The alternator was tested, and it was fine. We got a new voltage regulator, and also got the battery tested and charged. All of those components were functioning the way they should. I'm thinking it's just a matter of getting everything to work together. I still think some wiring is off, but we'll see

Econow

Not sure if you did this but don't see it in the thread. with the car running the batterie should be showing 14 - 14.5 volts if charging. also another way to check alternator id to but a screw driver to the back of alternator while the motor is running and it will create a magnetic charge and you will feel the screwdriver pull to the center of alternator.

72Keeper

Hey,
i'm new to CO, and just ran across this thread.

I like your ride.

Miles71

It sounds like you clearly have some electrical issues.
There many threads on this topic.


Here are a few items to do and check:
Get a battery charger (10amp with 2-3 amp trickle). It is indispensable for debugging long electrical issues, etc.
The stock alternator with 1972 AC is approx 63 amps at speed. At idle you are looking at 5-10 amps from the alternator. You said that at "running" you saw 11.89 volts. That is Bad! At idle on my 1971, everything off, battery fully charged, I will always see above 13.40. At speed I will see 13.40 - 14.30 (varies with temperature, using stock Relay voltage regulator).


Flickering:
I have only seen flickering of lights a few times, when my battery was low, headlights on, heater on at a stop sign at night. If your Radio is flickering on and off, that’s bad. It simply means you do not have enough power.



(off topic story)
A friend was using a 2-way amateur radio on board the Russian Space station Mir. The radio (Kenwood TM733) had 3 transmitter power settings 5, 10 and 45 watts RF. He called me and said, "the radio only works on 5 watts, when I set the radio to 10 or 45 watts, the radio shuts off when I key the microphone. What's wrong"? I told him the 15 amp power supply (48-VCD to 13 VCD converter) was more than enough to support that radio, what else did you connect to the power supply? Mike responded, "2 laptops and the Kenwood radio on the 1 power supply". The poor little power supply was simply over loaded and would shutdown (and recover gracefully) every time he exceeded the power supplies limit. I told Mike he was at the limit and he would have to wait for the next cargo rocket to get any more power converters.

Check battery with existing tools:
Fully charge your battery overnight 8-10 hours at 10 amps. Install Volt meter at Battery, unplug Charger and turn on head lights for a minute and check voltage. If over 12.1 after 1 minute with headlights turned on, you are in OK shape battery wise.
Now kill the headlights and start engine. Check battery voltage at battery. At 700-800 idle RPM, you should see 13.2 (appproximately check manuals) or higher up to 14.xx. If you do not see over 13 VDC with the engine running idle on a good battery, you have More problems.
If your car has an external Relay Voltage Regulator. Unscrew cover and look for burnt coils (not sure what style you have). Check manuals for Regulator and Alternator testing.


Battery drain:
Check for voltage leakage from existing and new electronics. With engine Off, key off, Doors closed and all electronics switched Off, test for current leakages. Read the manual for your voltage current meter first before you run this test. Disconnect the positive battery cable. Install the meter in Current Mode between the battery and battery cable. Check the amount of current being drawn while everything is OFF. I have not checked my car recently. From memory the current leaking you should see will be well under 500 milliamps. If you see 500 milliamps or more, Or if you blow a meter fuse or melt your meter, and then you have a current leakage problem.
After test, remove the meter before turning on anything that exceeds your meters current power limits.

Rmsx327

When it's at high RPM'S, the GEN light turns off. Elsewhise, it's on.
It is staying at 12, regardless. It isnt going down, but it also isnt going much higher. We unhooked the stereo (the amps been unhooked for a longtime) and all . There doesnt appear to be a leak from what we tested, but it also appears to not be where it should. (Obviously, since it isnt going to 13 or 14 like it used to.) Still stumped...o.0

oldcutlass

Just per chance I've seen battery cells short, then when the battery is moved say to go and test it, the plates shift and the battery shows good. Then the plates shift and it shorts again after its reinstalled. If it's not charging, then it's not charging, I'd go after that problem and see where your issue is with that first. Check the wiring going to the regulator from the alternator and the battery. Double check the junction block and make sure the terminal and cable terminals are clean.

I've found a down and dirty test for the charging system is to disconnect the battery with the engine running and the headlights and accessories on, if the engine stops then there is a problem with the alternator/ or regulator. The battery is there just to start the car.

Rmsx327

We got a new alternator, and put it in. The GEN light still stays on. Driving around, it only goes off around 2,000 RPM still. The battery went from 11.7 volts to 11.9 from driving around a bit, so there's a little charge going to it. Just havent driven it too much, as to be careful. However, the car has trouble starting. Like there's not enough amps to turn it over.
I'm afraid to get a new battery if I have electrical problems, because then I'm just running down a perfectly fine battery. On the other hand, idk if my current battery is the cause, but I doubt it.

droptopron

Just because your alt is new don't assume its good. I just had an issue that my rebuilt wasn't putting out enough. Most rebuilders do a shyt job these days. If you can, have it bench tested.

Rmsx327

That's just the thing, the last alt tested passed the test just fine. But, we found out it wasnt meant for the car, and just decided to get a new one and eliminate a variable.
The GEN light still went on even with the old, tested alternator.
-In fact, it went off a few days after the new voltage regulator was installed.
Now, even with the new one, it stays on.

-I drove it today for about 5-10 minutes around town, it didnt seem to charge up at all (even whilst staying at a constant 2,000 RPM, where the GEN light would be off) Then, it wouldnt start back up once I shut it down for about 5 minutes.


To address a few things, I don't have a battery charger, but we did get it charged at Advanced Auto Parts. Everything came back good, and it got back up to almost full capacity for the time we left it there. After we put it in the car and used it, it slowly dwindled (meaning, it wasnt getting enough charge FROM the car. Since it is able to actually charge, as proven by the test. Meaning it wasnt the battery not accepting a charge.) We replaced the regulator. It seemed to fit better than the last, and nothing was different, really. About 2-3 days later, however, the GEN light randomly turned on when I started the car. Had used it the night before, and it wasnt on that entire previous day. Since then, it's stayed on. Even after a new alternator.

Keep in mind, this problem stemmed from leaving my lights on and stressing the system weeks ago. Since, the voltage regulator has been replaced, all the points cleaned and checked, along with a new, proper, alternator. Maybe I should replace the battery? But again, my fear is that something else is wrong. The GEN light wouldnt be coming on if my battery is the only weak link in the system, would it?
I'm just afraid of toasting a perfectly good battery if there's something else wrong. Then I'm out $200+ whiiiich I dont really have.

Miles71

Hi Rmsx327:
I understand you do not want to waste money on a new battery. However, without a real battery tester and other tools it's harder to isolate the problem.
Battery:
If a cell is shorted you will Not see over 12.0 volts (No load, No charging). Try to buy or borrow a 8-10 amp charger with the Trickle option. Take the battery out of the car and charge it over night. Then take the charger off and let it sit for a few hours with No load, no Charging. Now stick your volt meter on the battery. If the no load voltage is over 12.2-12.9 you do not have a shorter Cell. If you had a shorted cell you will see less than 12.0 volts. For each shorted cell you will loose approximately 2 volts. 10 to 11 volts after an overnight charge means 1 shorted cell.
There is no fix for a shorted cell.
Alternator / Regulator
It sounds like you have a separate Alternator and a firewall mounted regulator. It seems your Alternator works at Auto parts, but does not work in your car. A good Charging system should still show good voltage with a marginal battery.
What is the amp rating of your Alternator and Regulator?
Do all of the wires match up correctly?
Some external regulators have an adjustable voltage screw under the cover. I tweaked my mechanic stock regulator for 14.2 volts at 1000 RPM.
Test every wire between the Alternator and Regulator.
Test wires from Regulator to battery etc.
Check the belt tension on your alternators.
Send pictures of your installation, Alternator, Regulator, horn relay, etc.

Rmsx327

Got a new battery and the GEN light is still on and the problem still persists

Rmsx327

Always something simple.
As a last ditch effort, we put on the old regulator and everything worked perfectly fine, the GEN light was off, new battery running at 14.23.
Autozone sold us a brand new faulty regulator, which caused us to have to buy a new battery, and alt.

oldcutlass

Glad it's fixed!

Miles71

Glad you resolved the problem, it was sounding like a wire or regulator problem.
Keep an eye on the charging voltage over the next few weeks. When the car is on the Highway and battery is charged and all electronics off, your charging voltage should stabilize between 13.5 - 14.10. If you see consistent Highway voltages with lights off above 14.20 you may want to check to see if you can adjust the High end down to no higher than 14.10 range. Some batteries do not like 14.20+ for long periods of time, they will get hot, boil and smell like Rotten eggs.

Rmsx327

I'm being very careful with it. Carrying my trusty volt-meter! lol. I check before I leave, both on and off, as well as when I get back home. Just to make sure it's not overcharging, or losing charge, etc.
All seems to be going perfectly!!!
We went to AutoZone and gave them a piece of our mind, though. Theres a time and place for cheap *** Mexican labor and parts...

Wills72455

Neat project and a fun thread to read. I am also rehabing a 72 so it's interesting to see where yours is rotten vs. where mine is. Have fun with it and be safe on the roads, there is life after 30!

Allan R

The sad part is the counter people are just the messengers. They have no say in who orders what parts from whatever supplier. I feel sorry for those guys - they hear it from everyone. And in today's economy you don't give up a job just because you hear a lot of $#@* every day. Hope they can avoid taking that home to their family.

Not a criticism of your actions - I would also go back and tell them I was disappointed and let down by their product. Usually I ask them what they can do for me to 'restore' my confidence in their products. Sometimes I get nothing, sometimes I get a big discount on my next purchase. Anyway, just some thoughts I thought I'd share.

Rmsx327

I agree with that completely! Don't shoot the messenger. We did it in a nice manner, and they agreed with our stance completely. He talked about how he didn't agree with their business model, and gave us the money back for it, and offered to help if any further problems arose. It's usually the same guy or two who works at mine, and I see them all the time. They're good people! Just doing their jobs is all

ziff396

I agree. I went through 2 voltage regulators from auto zone. I gave up and just put a 1 wire alternator on mine. Works great. I needed to upgrade from the 37 amp anyways. With an amp etc. you should at least be running a 90 amp or better alternator. Yes, I know, but I like the 1 wire set ups.

Rmsx327

Havent really done much more than the last update. She's been running good!

I'm curious about a few things though. If any of you could help, it'd be great. I was wondering how much it might cost to get it sandblasted, get some body work done, and a paint job. All together it'd be a big sum probably. But my Uncle owns an business and said he'd hook me up, but only on paint. So I can get his painter for $10/hour. With that being said, I was wondering if anyone had an estimate as to how much it may cost to get her sandblasted with minor/moderate body work.

Allan R

Take this constructively. You have a shyte load of big rust repairs ahead of you. I went back and looked at your pics from the start of this build.

1. The lower fenders on both sides need patches.
2. The lower doors look like they are perforated. It would be nice to patch but probably cheaper to just get some replacement ones.
3. The passenger side quarter is shot around the wheel opening - prolly the liner is too. The drivers side looks like its rotting out too.
4. The entire trunk floor pan and drops need replacing. That suggests the integrity of the inner liners is also shot especially where you really need it - at the joints.
5. Both front floor pans are shot and need replacing. Didn't see the rear pans, but I'd be surprised if they weren't also in danger of needing replacing.
6. Based on the floor pans, I would suspect the rocker panels under that stainless also may need replacing.
7. The rad support (especially under the battery tray) is shot. I'd look for a replacement. Note: Must replace a 72 rad support with one from the same year - due to changes in top metal for grill fitment.
8. The frame has a lot of rust on it. I'd want to take the body off and check to see if that frame has weak areas.

Much as I hate to say? You have a TON of work ahead of you before you can even start thinking about a paint job. You mentioned that you'll be going to an automotives class (hopefully body work) this fall? If that's so, I'd volunteer this car as a class project to cut down the (huge) labor costs that will associated with a rebuild.

I'm glad the car's been running well. There's so much body work in that car to do it's a good thing to hear you're enjoying driving it while you can. I have a sneaking suspicion it won't pass a safety inspection in its current condition.

None of what I mentioned ^^ is being mean. It's simply observations about what is seen in the pics you posted. I'd rather be up front and say this will cost a lot of $$$ than sugar coat it and suggest you could 'patch that up easy'. What you're taking on is a MAJOR REBUILD. You can do it with the frame off or frame on though.


EDIT: ON the + side you have 2 guys - Eric (jensenracing77) and Scott (Oldspackrat) who have tons of 70-72 Oldsmobile parts. They both live in Indiana too. Eric - Brazil , Scott - Indianapolis

Rmsx327

Well thank you for being honest! It really does help. I enjoy constructive criticism.
My dad and I patched the trunk last week, as well as more inside on the floor pans. It isnt pretty, nor "correct", but it is keeping water out, as well as my feet in. Not a permanent fix for sure, but something I can go with for now.

Most of my reasoning for getting paint is so what I have isn't rusting away as well. I don't need an immaculate paint job, but just something. I've already watched new surface rust form, because my paint is faded in parts where it is just bare metal. It's surface rust, yes. But it only progresses from there. With the winter coming up here in Indy, the last thing I want is for any parts of my body to be exposed more than necessary.
I've used some small magnets, as well as my hands and went along the body, seeing what is bondo and what isnt. A lot of both my quarters are overly thick bondo that's just cracked. So I'd just go ahead and replace them entirely.
The actualy frame, yeah. It'll need work. Most of the car will, and I'm fully aware. About the only thing that isnt in need of immediate attention is the interior. Even the engine could have a good professional lookin' at. After all, it's 40 years old!!! I'm just new to the game and was curious of prices for basic stuff. Heck! Maybe even for some of what we've talked about.

Sadly, plans have changed. My dad got a job in Los Angeles, and is now halfway across the country. He left a few days ago. And I'm pursuing motion graphics with my teachers at school. He offered to get me a connection with this guy who works at NBC, but in order to be in his class, I had to drop my vocational school. So, no experience/free labor for me. .

I'm looking to do the most with what I got! Which...isn't very much. lol. I get my moms car when I leave for college at the end of this year, so after that, this wont be my daily driver, and I can probably do a lot of MAJOR things then. I might even be able to do a frame off. I only drive about 6-8 miles a day, so she isnt under heavy use at all. I'm really hoping not to drive it much in the winter. Any suggestions on...not necessarily small...but some important and manageable things that I could do about now?

Allan R

Yes. If you can store the car in a dry garage during the time it has to wait that will help a lot. You could go ahead and spray it with paint if you felt it would help (might a bit) but in truth, any rust that's under the paint will still be able to grow and spread. Rust is to cars what cancer is to people. The only way to cure it is to cut it out completely and hope you got it all. Just follow normal processes for storing it. That will NOT stop rust from spreading, but it will help control how fast it spreads.

Old cars like this cost a lot of $$ to keep as projects. They also require a heavy time investment. Hopefully you and your Dad will be able to coordinate further restoration at a later date. I'd put together a gant chart so you will have a timeline of priortizing the build process. Further, I'd suggest watching the parts market for good buys on the parts you'll need to restore this ol gal.

What is motion graphics? Is it something like the old days cartooning?

RAMBOW

I'm going to make a post that a lot of people here are going to dislike.... But i like being that guy.

Don't worry about fixing the rust now. Its a project. Take a tip from the 1980's when it was just an old car, not a work of art.

Get some friends to come over, rent/buy a couple da sanders and strip/smooth out the paint. Grind down the rust you see- AND FIX IT THE BEST YOU CAN. If that means filler (notice i didn't say bondo.. there are much better fillers now) then thats fine... if you can weld in some patches and have them look ok, thats cool too.

Get it straight and then have it painted. It will look like a million bucks while your work on it and enjoy it.

In another 5-10 years, you can strip it and do it right when you are ready and financially able to.

If you sand blast it (btw... you don'T ever want to SAND blast outside sheetmetal... media blast. Sand will warp the metal.) you will basically be relegating the car to being off the road for YEARS while you try and fix it. No sense in doing that.

Reading your post, and seeing the things you are working on... its obvious what is important to you. You don't have to treat it as a full restoration as other people do.

Take a look at the pic of my car in my sig. This car was purchased by the previous owner in 1978 when he was 14. He and his 12 year old brother stripped the paint, filled all the rust with bondo and angel hair(it was 1978 remember) then their uncle who owned a body shop painted it. It was reshot again in 1988 w/o taking out the filler or stripping to bare metal.

Looks pretty good for work that a 12 year old and 14year old did body work on! Sure its full of bondo- but the car has always been babied and been indoors, and its only now FINNALY beginning to show signs of needing help. My rust is not as bad as yours, but the premise is the same. You clean it up, fill it & paint it- in a few years when it starts to show through, it will STILL look 100x better than it does today, because the solid parts of the car will have nice paint on it.

DO a quick and dirty job on your car- you will be glad you did. You can always come back and do it "Right" the next time. OR... you'll have a cool looking car to play wiht while you are restoring your next more solid one.

My $.02

BTW... the 68 elcamino in my sig was a 99% rust free arizona car, and it was stripped down to the metal, minor frame straightening & front end & door alignment tweaks due to a accident in its past- repaint w/ jambs, SS stripe was painted on, was laser straight- that was $7500 straight cash in 2007, done as a favor to me from the owner of the shop whos a friend of a friend, and he told me straight out when i picked it up that it was the deal of the year, and under normal circumstances he'd have charged double that for the same work. Just food for thought.

Allan R

Ben, I don't think that you and I are that far apart. I agree with the principles you mentioned. The most important thing for Rmsx327 though is to find a place to store the car where it's not going to deteriorate a whole lot more.