smietana

my neighbor just bought a 76 Cutlass Salon with Hurst options? It has a 455,t-tops, is this a factory car? Rare?

tru-blue 442

I would like to see some pics of that one.
I thought Hurst stopped after 75 and
then started up again in 79.

pogo69

i thought so too...maybe hurst t tops?

smietana

That's what I thought, It does have a 455 J heads

rgk1977442

There was a 76 white prototype and (2) 77 hurst olds proto types. There are posts of the history in 73-77 olds forum website. I don't believe that car is a real "hurst".

Hurst/Olds 73/74

That is not a Hurst/Olds. The Hurst/Hatch T-tops were available on any Cutlass Supreme (or Cutlass Salon) that year. That does not make it a Hurst/Olds. The Hurst T-Handle on the shifter was not available on that year Cutlass. It must have been added later. Same with the "Hurst Equipped" fender emblems (available for around $15.00) and the "Hurst/Olds quarter panel decals. Nice car, just not a real Hurst/Olds.

1969Hurst

Yep, x2

I also believe, or at least I've seen some 1976 Cutlass's that had Hurst T Tops have a sticker on the inner door jam that was something like 'This car has been modified by Hurst......", someone sees that and all of the sudden they think they have a Hurst/Olds, not saying that car has it, but I've seen that lead to confusion on other cars.

smietana

Thanks for all the info.

svnt442

If he's at all disappointed he can toss the car my way.

My second car was a 76 Salon.

joe_padavano

Yeah, one-of-none.

Hurst/Olds 73/74

x2 My second car (first NICE car) was a triple black 1977 Cutlass Supreme.

tva442

If you want to see pictures of the 76, 77 and 78 prototype cars they were all at the 2012 Hurst Olds Club of America's National Meet in Hershey, PA

http://www.hurstolds.com/meet/2012_Meet/index.html

tru-blue 442

Very cool. Thanks for posting.
Whatever happened to the cars?

tva442

These original prototype/ proposal cars are in the hands of individuals. They were only proposals, and Hurst/ Olds were not picked up for those years.
The owner of the 76 said that Olds was selling so many Cutlass's those years that they barely even had one to give to Hurst to use for making the proposal. Thus they did not really need the special model and those proposals never made it to production.

Mikel7099

So in 76 there was never a cutlass salon with a Hurst option?

joe_padavano

Uh...

Go back and read the posts in this thread.

Mikel7099

We'll I guess this from Hemmings motor news is wrong then

Mikel7099

From 442.com.

joe_padavano

Mikel7099

Wow but it does say some of these cars came equipped with Hurst T-Tops and Hurst badging. Hmmm

joe_padavano

What's your point? The fact that Hurst was trying to promote their then-new Hurst Hatch product line by sticking plastic emblems on an otherwise stock Cutlass doesn't make it a Hurst/Olds, or any more valuable. Some might ever argue that the increased water leakage due to the hatches made the car LESS valuable.

HOCA only recognizes the prototype 76 H/O, as shown in the photo above. Go to the Hurst/Olds Club of America website for more info.

Mikel7099

Wow. Panties in a bunch huh Joe. Point being people such as you being so fast as to saying someone down the street threw emblems on the car but might not be the case! Since I proved that fact! Regardless someone put the emblems on the cars! Was it Hurst or GM when the conversions were done. Prototype Not a real Hurst in my eyes then either. Sorry that car was being promoted to but failed. Got turned down so not real.

jwsolds

What fact proven? 442 dot com has bunch of misinformation like this and that's a fact. I have seen many '76-'77s as this and I will be the one to say an owner put the emblems & decals on. Not one ever seen had period correct nos emblems or decals. Or any documentation to prove Hurst or GM added them. Whether it was Hurst or an authorized installer, the only decal added for the Hurst T-tops was the modified by Hurst on door.

So you call it a prototype? Well also said that those cars are accounted for and though different from actual production cars, those proposal cars are real Hurst/Olds. Why don't you dig out the article from back in '77 on how to build you own H/O which is what this car is about and always someone believing it's a special Hurst car. Hurst/Hatches are cool and were also available on many other GM cars back then.

Mikel7099

Ummmm. Learn how to read number 1- I never called the car a prototype or a special order Hurst. Another one so fast to cry foul but since you say the owner put the emblems on the car and not Hurst or GM it must be true! Funny thing is someone else claimed the Hurst modified sticker on the doors were fake on these cars but you say otherwise. Lol. More websites than 442.com say that these car do exist but they are all wrong. Lol but everyone on here is so right. Ha ha ha. If you need help understanding my previous post message me I will explain it to you.
Prototype cars got shot down for production so not real. John down the street modified them

jwsolds

I see where I misunderstood and I can read just fine. Just trying to point out the facts which others on this thread - Tom, Jeff, and Joe said factual stuff and you still questioned them. One car not mentioned was another '76 proposal car (black) that does exist and is recognized as a true Hurst car.

Nobody on this thread claimed the "Modified by Hurst" door jam sticker as fake but was pointed out how it causes confusion making people think they have a H/O. Again, all the cars with H/H t-tops got this door jam decal saying it's meets Fed Safety Regs and it's not a fake decal but it is reproduced and should be on any car having Hurst/Hatch T-tops.

As for more websites other than 442 dot com saying these cars exist, what are they? Just copying bad info already posted? I like the way Hemmings stated them as curiosities which is a correct way of putting it that they are not H/Os, people other than Hurst made these mods. I remember the Cutlass debated car which claimed to have original H/O badging that started alot of this and is the reason 442.com stated wrong facts. The Proposal cars are all accounted for and are real H/Os even though they didn't make production.

Subject car is just a Cutlass Salon that got the Hurst/Hatches. Shifter handle, and other badging & decals were added at some point by someone other than Hurst or GM. That's the fact about this car and nothing more.

I don't claim to be the expert and you can disagree with me but I've done my homework and researched the Hurst cars for many years! Just stating the facts which everything in print or online is not always correct. Cars like the subject one come about quite often and always someone not informed or should I say misimformed buys it thinking they got a special H/O.

Mikel7099

Your also forgetting the FACT it also said these cars GOT BADGING!!!! Lol. The prototype cars to me mean nothing! No production not real!!! I can throw a cam in a motor tweek the suspension put decals on it show it to automobile executives and call it a prototype car too and call it authentic. Lol. What a joke! Funny thing is if the white car is the 76 prototype car it has the same decal. That car is a fake!!! Lol. So far no one has showed me that someone just put the badges on this car! I provided two facts that show these cars CAME WITH BADGING! All I hear is blah. I am not saying this car is super special or rare. So you can stop posting that. Just stating the fact these cars also may have come with the badging.

jwsolds

Really?! This misinformation is what I'm trying to disprove to people like you who believe everything found in a quik web search. I did not forget badging, that's the info trying to disprove because it's not a fact.

And now you're are saying Rick's '76 proposal car is a fake?! It's restored and is the real deal. His car did come with other unique Hurst badging.

You have not proven any facts, just shown info in writing that is incorrect and what I'm trying to say is wrong. None of these cars with standard floor shifter came with a Hurst T-handle, special Hurst badging, or decals when new unless it was an H/O.

Just because you found something stated in print I don't have to prove individuals added these items to their '76 & '77 Cutlass, you need to prove Hurst or GM did. Only the Hurst/Hatches was an option and if you want to believe that Hurst or GM put all that other stuff on, it can only be proven by paperwork docs which nobody has been able to produce because it didn't happen. If Hurst did add extras, it was one of their company cars.

So word of mouth and incorrect web info spreads bad info making people believe the extra badges and stuff was a factory thing, so again what was proven? Pretty clear that individuals added options for whatever reason or desires. Don't believe everything what google says or even me but I've done my research.

Mikel7099

So let me get this right. I am not suppose to believe what I read on the internet but I am suppose to believe you. Lol. Ricks car has been restored and has unique badging so that makes it the real deal. Oh wait don't know if this car has been restored but it has unique badging.Lol. So it's real deal too! Ha ha. What a joke!!! Better do more research! Showed me nothing. All talk so far

tru-blue 442

JWS...Nicley put, period.
Some men, you just cannot
reach my friend....

Mikel7099

Yes. Well done. Nice way to show facts like I did. Lol

sicky olds

This is getting to be an interesting read... What do you mean Hurst option? as in the H/O package or some of the options that Hurst provided?

Also the prototype is a real H/O and is considered a real one due to the Hurst company made it, just like they did all the ones in the past. With the badging, which may or may not be factory or dealer installed, it was not installed by the Hurst company itself.

Also, I love how you called out JWS because he cant read, when in fact it seemed to be you who could not type.

You arent even the original poster asking about this car but you seem to be mighty interested in fighting. Do us all a favor and troll on a different forum please.

pogo69

i never cared for the term 'troll' its a made up internet word... a persons personality and what he believes somehow gets labeled troll maybe in most cases this is just a stubborn person by nature and enjoys engiging argument, nothing wrong with that. anyway i believe as most have said this is not a H/O but has some parts and the H/O sunroof

Mikel7099

I believe what you just posted is considered trolling. Another Olds know it all but no facts to back anything up like the others which I clearly did. I am not the original poster you are right there. Interested in the truth which you and others can't back up! I have provided proof but everyone is wrong but you guys. Lol. Not fighting providing facts to educate you guys on what you don't know obviously. Obviously you also can't prove Hurst didn't put the badges on the car. So you go troll somewhere else until you provide facts otherwise. Have a nice day.

Mikel7099

Not trying to argue or be stubborn. Just showed what I found and seem to be getting blasted for it. It says some of these cars came with badges. Just trying to find out who May have put them on. Hurst/dealer who? Maybe it was the owner or a previous owner but the cars it said did come with badges who put them on?

sicky olds

What proof have you effing shown? A website called 442.com, a Hemmings motor article? That sure as **** is not facts or documents proving what you are saying is true. "Hey, let me pull up wikipedia and use that for my reference," allowed no college ever when writing a paper for your citing.

Basically what i am saying is that **** was wrote by people like you and me who just hear things and have no definitive truth or evidence to prove anything. That car could have been built by Abraham Lincoln on the planet mars for all we know.

Mikel7099

Lol. I agree with you to a point. God only knows who put the badges on. Could be real could be fake? I thought it would be worth looking into after seeing that some came with badges but it seems some on here want to bash instead of saying hey it could have been possiable let's investigate. Some are saying no way I feel show me it's not possible they came on car. Never know?

sicky olds

Depending on your views with the God only knows. And yes it could be possible, anything is possible. If you read my original post i did not confirm nor deny what you have stated, I just said it was not the Hurst company that installed them. But hey maybe they took the car to the company and paid for them to do it, who the eff knows. I only argued that you said the 76 Hurst proto was not real when in fact it is, without original paperwork, like finding out most packages, no one will ever know

tru-blue 442

Ha ha. Welcome back Steve!

It's not the size, but the length of the stream.

oldcutlass

What if it was already large?

Hurst/Olds 73/74

Quote from "The Hurst Heritage" by Robert C. Lichty and Terry V. Boyce (with Acknowledgements listed to the late George H. Hurst;Carolyn Panzetter, formerly of Hurst Performance Products; Helen Early, Oldsmobile Public Relations; Joe Hrudka, founder and Chairman of the Board of Mr. Gasket Company; Richard Chrysler, former Chairman of Cars & Concepts, and Linda Vaughn, Hurst Performance Products.), page 77:

"Nearly a decade later, Car Craft featured another Hurst/Oldsmobile, this time a real prototype, but not a successful one. There may have been additional Hurst/Olds prototypes for years of non-production, but none were as potentially interesting as the '77.
By the time the article in Car Craft appeared, it was already evident that the 1977 Hurst/Olds program had turned down a dead-end street. Oldsmobile said that they were building all the Cutlasses they could sell, anyway, so a special interest-stimulating version was unwarranted. (1977 was a long time ago in Detroit.)
Bruce Caldwell had wrung the prototype out for Car Craft, and called it one of the finest assembled....
...America's automotive press was truly disappointed by the decision to drop the '77 H/O, Hurst was chagrined as well, of course. One person has never regretted the lack of subsequent '77s beyond the prototype. He's the fellow who bought the actual prototype from Hurst. rumored to live in suburban Philadelphia, the owner of the car knows what he has, and he has one rare H/O.
Every Hurst/Olds-indeed, every automobile-proceeds through a prototype state. Executives want to see 'the real thing' before approving a production model. Engineers need to actually fit parts to a full-scale car before releasing specifications. Ad agencies need a car to photograph for a the sales brochures, and the promotional folks need pictures, long before production lines begin to roll."

Quote from "Hurst Equipped" by Mark Fletcher & Richard Truesdell (with acknowledgments listed to members of the Hurst family, including Laurie Hurst and Bev Anderson, Hurst co-founder Bill Campbell; Dave Landrith, Dick Chrysler, Bob Riggle, Joe Shebeck, Marty Danko, Don Lane, Walt Czarnecki, Jim Kerr, Pat Flannery Stevens, Linda Vaughn, Jim Wangers, Shirley Shahan Bridges, Bob Tarozzi, and Jack Watson; Hurst historians Mark Janaky, Tom Benvie, Eddie Stakes, Mike Pemberton, the Badgley family, and many members of The Hurst/Olds Club of America.), page 112-113:

"Hurst created two 1976 H/O proposal cars in white with T-tops, based on the Cutlass S. The blacked-out headlight surrounds and dual grilles gave it a forceful and dominant look in an era when performance cars had become almost extinct. Dual, wide gold stripes outlined in black started from the top of each grille and continued down the trunk. A padded top covered the side windows similar to the 1975 top.
The H/O emblems were installed on each padded sail panel and the lower right corner of the trunk. Other factory options included swivel bucket seats, dual sport mirrors, and a tilt wheel. Contrary to what some have claimed, the car did not have a rear spoiler when it was proposed to Oldsmobile. Component choices were limited to the traditional Hurst Dual Gate shifter and factory-installed Rallye wheels with white-letter-tires. The 1976 H/O program was well received, but Oldsmobile abruptly ended it when Dick Chrysler announced his departure from Hurst to start his own company, Cars and Concepts.
Based on production Oldsmobile-supplied vehicles, Hurst employees drove and later sold these cars. One of the proposal cars has been found and is still unrestored.
Hurst created at least two 1977 proposal cars using the exact same recipe as in 1976. Painted black with saddle tan bucket seat interior, it featured red pinstriping starting below each section of the split grille and outlining ghost stripes over the hood. An additional 4-inch-wide lower body stripe started on each front fender crossing the wheel wells at the midpoint. This gold stripe crossed each rear quarter, with Hurst/Olds spelled out in block letters and pinstriped around the edges in bright red.
Similar to the 1976 proposal, the 1977 model featured a padded top with a 2-inch band along the front edge covering both quarter windows. The car was equipped with Hurst-installed T-tops, as Hurst was doing approximately 70 percent of the factory-ordered T-top installations at this time. The car did feature the understated trunk-mounted rear spoiler with an H/O emblem displayed prominently on the right edge. The car was well-equipped, with the contrasting saddle tan interior trim with high-back swivel bucket seats. It was also equipped with power windows, tilt sport steering wheel, console with Dual Gate shifter, and factory air conditioning. The factory Rallye wheels were painted with the traditional gold accent.
One of the two cars has been found and restored by a Hurst/Oldsmobile Society member. It has occasionally been seen at national H/O events.
There was also a 1978 Hurst proposal based on the new downsized Cutlass. It was all black with the traditional half-length padded vinyl top covering most of the rear quarter windows and each side having the H/O emblem. Additional equipment included the 350 V-8, 3-speed automatic transmission with a console-mounted Hurst shifter, T-top, power windows, and bucket seats, which no longer swiveled. The car wore side stripes similar to the 1977 proposal car with a prominent W-30 designation on the lower side of the unique front spoiler. A factory F-41 heavy-duty suspension package featured optional five-spoke cast wheels with Goodyear GT radial white-letter tires. Both grille sections were blacked out, although both the factory lower body aluminum trim and Cutlass hood emblem remained intact."

The 1976, 1977, and 1978 Hurst/Olds proposal cars are indeed real Hurst/Olds because they were made as Hurst/Olds by Hurst. They were not some mock-ups made by someone else, they were MADE BY HURST! These cars are well documented, by magazine articles back in the day when they were new, remembered by George Hurst, his family, and his employees. These cars' existence as Hurst/Oldses are well known and have been since they were new. Don't take my word for it, take the word of people like George Hurst, his family, his employees, the automotive magazines of the time, Hurst historians, and members of the Hurst/Olds Club of America. I'm sure they know more about the subject than you do.
There is no mention in either book about additional "Hurst/Olds" or other Cutlasses with "Hurst/Olds" emblems during the years 1976, 1977, and 1978. As comprehensive as these books appear to be, one would think if they existed, it would have been mentioned in the aforemented books. Like I said in my original post as to the black Cutlass Salon, "That is not a Hurst/Olds. The Hurst/Hatch T-tops were available on any Cutlass Supreme (or Cutlass Salon) that year. That does not make it a Hurst/Olds. The Hurst T-Handle on the shifter was not available on that year Cutlass. It must have been added later. Same with the "Hurst Equipped" fender emblems (available for around $15.00) and the "Hurst/Olds quarter panel decals. Nice car, just not a real Hurst/Olds."