gresmi

Good afternoon everyone,


I'm very new to this forum (joined today) but not new to forums and how they work. I'm currently in a number of forums and find them extremely useful in my quest to either keep vehicles running or finding new vehicles. I know how frustrating it is when people come into a forum and ask questions without first searching. I have searched my topic and found many useful points already about verifying if the vehicle i'm looking at is truly a w-30 442.


First off, I have not seen this car yet. I'm trying to verfiy as much as i can before I make the 600+ mile trip. This car is not restored and the owner claims the mileage is actual (around 31,000 miles).


From the pictures it appears to be a legitimate w-30 442 but here are my concerns/questions:


1. Drivers side red fender does not look like an original. I'm trying to compare my picture to the pictures in another post but would like to have someone else's opinion. (picture attached)
2. All w-30's in 1970 come with the Rallye Pac gauge cluster. I have tried to search the web for what this cluster would look like in a w-30 car. Everything i've seen onlne has three gauges. One has 'real' gauges for the temp, fuel, and oil with a couple of idiot lights. The second gauge is the speedometer/odometer. The third has the tic-toc-tac. As you can see in the enclosed picture, this car does not have the tic-toc-tac and it has all idiot lights on the left side except for the fuel indicator (which appears to not work).
3. VIN has the numbers 344 (442) and 77 (2dr plain back piller) M (Lansing). This car has a spoiler so does the 77 identification mean it didn't come with the spoiler originally?
4. Does the steering wheel look right? I can see its an oldsmobile steering wheel but it doesn't look like other W-30 cars.


I want to thank everyone in advance for any assitance. I feel like i have a small window of time to make the deal on this car so any assitance or opinions would be much appreciated.


Best regards,
Greg

Mikes442

Hello Greg
And Welcome!
Both fender wells look odd. They don't have the splash aprons attached by the A arms.
The Tic-Toc-Tac could be had on anything and had to be ordered. I have seen quite a few 442's and W-30's without the gauges.
The interior looks correct. That is just the standard steering wheel.
The Spoilers came out in January 1970 and was just an option that a lot of people added later.


See if the car has the correct VIN number on the transmission and see if that same 9 letter and numbers are on the pad under #1 spark plug on the block.(30M******) Also the carb # for a 4sp W-30(7040256) and distributor for a 4sp W-30(1111977)
Mike

m455sx

Please provide more pictures. From what i can see that both red inner fenders look to be replaced as there are no rubber flaps stapled to the bottom near upper A-arm. Need detailed picture of aluminum intake to verify factory. from the factory all W-30 cars came from lansing Mi. Had sport side mirrors, F-heads and aluminum intake with "oldsmobile 455" or "Olds 455" on the intake. Steering wheel and gauges where options. Keep in mind i maybe wrong on a few items but people on this site are experts!

BlackGold

The U21 Rocket Rally Pac was optional, even on the W-30.

That is the standard steering wheel. Again, the sport steering wheel was optional, even on the W-30.

The rear spoiler was available on the 77 body style, though that doesn't mean that car came with it. The spoiler is a common add-on for restored cars.

What makes you think the car is a W-30? Does the seller have any factory documents?

gresmi

Thanks to everyone for your quick responses, very much appreciated.


I'll get more pictures but won't be able to post them until tomorrow.


It is good to know about the gauges and steering wheel. The car i'm looking at seemed pretty basic other than the W-30 package the owner claims it has. He does not have any paperwork on the car. He did say the car had the differential ratio changed from a 3.91 to a 4.33. The current owner has had the car for 14 years but believes the change to the diff was done at the dealer. Seems logical this car was ordered with minimal options and setup for drag racing??


I also agree on the fenders being reproduction. There seems to be an extra round embossment on the drivers side towards the front of the fender. They also appear to have a more rounded form than what i've seen from other posts and other pictures.


Thanks for the welcome and the help it is very useful!!


Best regards,
Greg

RetroRanger

is that a non notched VC on the passenger side ?

joe_padavano

Welcome. The first thing you need to understand is that most of the "W-30" cars you will see on line are either fakes or have had every option in the book (and then some) added to them by some previous owner. Most of these cars came pretty stripped of options, as the target demographic when these were new spent their limited dollars on the performance parts, not the add-on luxury items.

In the case of your car, without documentation, be very wary. Both red inner fenders on your car are repros, and are the poorer quality repros that were available 10 or so years ago. Since this is an MT car, you don't have the option of verification using an OW trans with the matching VIN derivative (there is nothing about the Muncie that is unique to the W-30 application). You've got manual disk brakes and no A/C, and while that is not proof, it at least doesn't preclude the W-30. Unfortunately, everything that makes the car a W-30 can be bolted onto any 442. Your best bet at verification is to find a broadcast card inside the interior that would have the W-30 indication on it.

Fun71

This is one thing you should verify on this car.

joe_padavano

Run of the mill E heads are pretty easily turned into "F" heads with careful use of a die grinder. Check the casting number above the two center exhaust ports. Real F heads have casting number 404438. E heads have casting number 403686. That is MUCH harder to change.

costpenn

That voltage regulator on the firewall could be a problem, as 442's all had an internally regulated alternator in 1970. (but I have a story on that if you want to hear it)

joe_padavano

This is not an issue if the VIN is a 344xxx VIN. It just means that a previous owner changed it. My 70 W-30 was changed that way before I got it. All 1970 442s (W or not) came with the internal regulator from the factory.

Fun71

Good info. What I meant was that if it has E heads then that's a strong point against it being a real W-30. Now someone could have swapped the heads, intake, carb, distributor, transmission, etc. but it really is a W-30 - just needs all the original W parts replaced.

costpenn

That's exactly why I said it COULD be an issue. A guy cloning one of these cars from a non 442 A body might not know that detail and in conjunction with other irregularities cause a prospective buyer to be wary.

On the other hand, my documented W30 had a external voltage regulator installed at the factory that was never used.

classicmuscle442

Best advice is figure its a 442 and pay what a 442 is worth, if later you find paperwork or can trace history back with paperwork (must have with manual trans) you will be further ahead. As stated above F heads are key along with carb and distributor which were W30 only are rare and $$$ parts.

joe_padavano

If it were cloned from a non-442, the VIN would not be a 344xxx VIN, or worse, would have been changed. If it were a W-30 cloned from a lesser 442, it would still have the internally-regulated alternator.

joe_padavano

Right, but that wasn't my point. My point is that you can't look for the "F", you have to look at the actual head casting number to verify the heads are real and correct.

Fun71

Agreed.