defiant1

I am at a sticking point and not sure what to do next.

I am trying to replace the front coil springs. I am using the threadstock technique where I have the 3 foot rod through the shock hole and have tightened the spring from the top by using washers and nuts at both ends.

Loosened the castel nut on the ball joint a few turns. Then I released tension on the spring. I pounded on the Arm around the ball joint in hopes that it would break free, but nothing. How brutal can I hit the lower control arm??

So need some suggestions. Ball joint remover, pickle fork etc...

Going to take a break and change the fluid out in the differential, hopefully I will have better luck. This car is fighting me every step of the way...

bccan

Pickle fork will do it but you will most likely ruin the boot. Try hitting the knuckle where the tapered ball joint stud goes into it. Preferrably you need two hammers, substantial (1.5-2 lbs) seems to be a bonus. Place one hammer head stationary against knuckle(where stud goes through) & use the other hammer to strike the knuckle directly opposite of the stationary hammer. Usually pops right out w/ 1 or two hits & they don't have to be hard hits. Keep full/most spring tension against the joint - that is what does most of the work, make sure the nut is still engaged on a few threads so joint can't come apart completely. After the stud pops loose, then compress spring & proceed from there.

defiant1

I will give a whirl. Thanks for the reply.

d1

hamm36

If I was to go through the trouble of replacing the Front coil springs. I would go head and pull the A frames and replace the all the bushing, and ball joints. The parts are cheep in comparison to other parts worth replacing, most of the money will be pressing the bushings off and back on. You can always do the tie rod ends and center link later with out pulling everything. Like you have to do for the springs.

defiant1

I thought about the control arm bushings but I have read where they can be a challenge to install. And I have yet to get the damn ball joint to come loose. So, that is my first priority.

I do have to replace the sway bar vertical pieces (whatever they are called) that attach to the control arm. One had the rubber bushings missing and the bolt was rubbing and elongating the hole in the control arm.

Not sure what else to try on the ball joint. If I go the pickle fork route I probably will replace the ball joints, due the damage I will more than likely cause.

d1

Yellowstatue

The ends of the sway bar have SB link kits, come in poly urethane...I have a C frame type device that fits around the ball joint and separates the joint...like a C clamp on steroids. Uses a 1" wrench to turn screw also separates control arm bushings-cha cha cha-

Bluevista

Me too!
I only use rubber bushings, polyurethane just don't give you the same original ride or feel IMO, like it or not.
If it was some sort of gymkhana car that has to turn corners... yeah.


I just run the nut up to the end of the ball joint stud and give it a sharp rap with a ball peen and they always pop out. Heat is always your friend too. I have a pickle fork and have never used it for anything but to open beers. If I got it apart that far and they haven't been done replacing the ball joints and bushings is a no-brainer. For what they cost they give you about the most bang for the buck on the car and a lot peace of mind and satisfaction knowing the suspension is all tight and up to snuff. You can get in there and paint the frame area you can't get to otherwise and the control arms when they're out too, "Mightaswell".

kaz442

I think the problem you are having getting the ball joint to pop is the fact you already compressed the spring. Back off on the compressor so you have the energy/force of the spring to aid in getting the ball joint to pop. Loosen the nut but leave a few threads engaged and then one or two blows on the spindle where the ball joint is and it will pop. I always have a floor jack set up under the a arm Then compress the spring and then remove the ball joint nut. JKaz

Run to Rund

As others stated, leave the full force of the spring on the arm. Back the nut off only 1/2 to 1 turn as the spindle arm will hit with force, and youj don't need more clearance than that. Hit the side of the spindle with a 3 lb. hammer a few times and the stud will pop out of the spindle.

Lady72nRob71

Pickle fork thingie BAD! Hammer GOOD!!

defiant1

Okay-got the ball joints to finally release. Hammer technique worked, the drivers side was still a bear. The spindle has love marks now.

Got the springs removed. I was a little worried as the control arm seemed not to swing far enough down to allow the spring to clear. The first one I used the threadstock and it kind of worked but the ball joint caught the spring more than the threadstock did. The second one went a little easier once I figured out how to reposition the threadstock (floor jack was required).

Also, I used 5/8 threadstock (thinking bigger was better). But I did not account for the angle of the control arm swinging down. So, you guessed it, the threadstock got wedged in the shock hole and it was a PITA to get out again.

So, 7/16" threadstock was the way to go for me. It was small enough to have enough leeway to position and remove as needed.

I also removed the lower control arms per thread advice in order to replace the bushings and ball joints.

Now I have to tackle the upper control arms. Is there any removal advise on how to get these out???

Thanks again everyone for their insight.

d1

mike's88

Since you're this far, remove the spindle from upper con. arm, this way the arm is lighter. Raise c.a. and unbolt from the frame. Then you can replace the upper c.a. bushings also. Make sure that you support the brake calipers so as not to damage the hoses.

Run to Rund

Spring tension will help break loose the upper ball joint studs, just as with the lowers. Keep the shims segregated so you can get them under the right bolts.

defiant1

I left the spindle on, but I did use a block of wood to prop up c.a. to help keep tension off of bolts. I did not know the bolts were pressed in like wheel studs. There was one on each side I was not able to pound out. So I used a breaker bar and every extension I had to break the bolt free. After that I was able to pull it out. It worked, but not sure if it was the "right" way.


I did separate and wrote down how many shims there were on both sides (front and rear).


I got the upper and lower control arms off and the ball joints pressed out of the lower c.a. So, I got a ways to go yet in order to remove the old ball joints and bushings before I can replace them with new.

Any recommendations concerning poly vs. rubber?


Thank you gentlemen.

d1

Yellowstatue

A little late but...the upper control arm bolts are serrated so they wont turn in the frame--just turn the nut--when you re-install the springs the cut end of the spring must cover part of the little slotted hole in the bottom of the spring pocket (an orientation thing) with a floor jack underneath the arm to raise it to connect the spindle--might have to use the threaded rod again to force it tighter...

Lady72nRob71

Now you sheared off the serrations from the bolts. I did that once with one of them. Just get a set of new bolts.
I suggest replacing the bolts anyway, so this does not happen to you later:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...html#post74952

I got mine here:
http://www.firewheelclassics.com/sto...pID=&SKU=SUB21
Its a camaro part, but it is the same thing - just cheaper and about 2 miles from my house...

defiant1

Yeah, I will be a little nervous putting them back in. It seemed like a tight fit getting them out. I have a feeling I will have to slightly compress them to get them in the spring pocket. I just don't want to get smacked in the face
Thanks for the tip on orienting the springs, I had not heard that. Also, my old springs were flat on the top, but the new springs have the pig tail at both ends. Is this an issue? Another thing I noticed was that my new springs are a hair shorter (half the thickness of a coil) than the old. I would have thought the old springs would be shorter not longer after years of use.... The new springs are the heavy duty ones for an A/C car.

Thanks for the link. I will get these ordered tonight.

d1

coltsneckbob

This very informative. Thanks. I am considering doing my whole front end next month.

I was thinking of getting the bolts from Fusick.com. Does anyone know if their bolts are absolutely correct? I called them and they said there is some or serration just under the head of the upper bolts. They did tell me they are grade 8.

I did my rear control arms last fall......should those have serrations?

RAMBOW

The seration holds them into the frame. If they have been removed incorrectly (or just too many times) the serration won't hold even with new bolts- at that point you have two choices- have the new bolt tack welded into place- or leave it lose and make whoever is doing your alignment figure out how to hold the bolt head on the inside while he loosens and tightens the bolt to change alignment shims.

Rear control arm (and lower front) control arm are totally different- Serations are not needed- although the lower fronts do have a little shoulder on them under the head- and it is wise, if replacing, to replace with specific ones with that shoulder, not just generic bolts.

hope that makes some sense...

Lady72nRob71

I would imagine those are the correct ones - they sound like it. I do know the Camaro ones from Firewheel are, as they went on my car and fit fine.
The rear control arm bolts have no serrations - just a 3.5" long 1/2" grade 8 bolt with a sharp tip at the end for ease of installation. I am replacing mine with equivalent off-the-shelf bolts.

Eddie Hansen

Rob they also have a slight shoulder on the rear control arms, I just got a complete set and they were NOT cheap ( 45 for 8 bolts) I didn't want to mickey around with bolts without the shoulders...

mcmaster carr and enco have some good prices on hardware, but I got these off ebay as they are Gm parts, I imagine Dormans would carry them too but didn't check.

Lady72nRob71

The ones I got also had the shoulders. I will find out in a few hours whether they will work or not. If not, Firewheel is right down the street - they have em but at a steep price.
I hate doing rear end work without a lift.......

greenslade

Back the nut off only 1/2 to 1 turn as the spindle arm will hit with force, and youj don't need more clearance than that. [/quote]
Removed front spring today,backed nut off about 3 turns,hit steering knuckle joint popped out BUT now the ball joint stud started turning in knuckle.lesson learned Back nut off untill it is loose then turn it back a few turns.

Rocket Richard

Hey there,
I'm about to remove the upper control arm to replace the bushings. You guys were talking about those bolts with the serated edges. What is the best way to remove these? doesn't look like there's much room in the engine compartment to hit the threaded end of the bolt with a hammer to get it out.

Oh, by the way I'm trying to remove the upper ball joint. What a PITA. Might go shopping for a ball joint removal tool. My pickle fork is not doing the job.

-Rich

Lady72nRob71

Not much room but these should not be too bad to remove. I did it without any frustrations... Maybe use a small pry bar against some blocks of wood against the exhaust manifold.

Pickle fork thingie BAD! Hammer GOOD!!

Rocket Richard

OK, I am officially against tack welding the control arm bolts to hold them in place. Why? because you have to get them out again at some time.

Yeah I got me a big 6 lb sledge hammer and whacked on my pickle fork till the ball joint came loose. Lifted up the control arm and yup, I saw why I couldn't just pry the control arm bolts out. The previous owner tack welded them in. Couldn't you just cut a slot or drill a small hole on the end of the threaded side of these bolts, or use two nuts locked together to hold this bolt while you tighten?

I'm going to have to use a dremel to get the old bolts out now. Wish me luck.

Lady72nRob71

Sounds like the previous owner or his shop cranked the bolt heads and stripped off the serrations of all.
Hope he just damaged the bolts. Get some new bolts and hopefully they will stay in. In fact, a dab of JBweld on the splined areas may keep them in just tight enough to tighten the bolts. They should pop out when pried.
Best of luck to you!