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Hi all - 72 cutlass convertible - 68 455 - 4 speed manual - quadrajet - last fall I drove it to the convertible top place and it ran decent - got a new top on it (yay! Big victory there) week later drove it home (short drive) and it would not run - would idle (not great) but second I let out clutch it would die - tried reving up large Rpms to get it rolling and second I let clutch out ... stall - I was able to limp it home by slowly letting out the clutch without giving it any gas and I would go at idle speed but any gas would kill it. End of season - tarp it up - fast forward to this spring - I rebuilt the quadrajet - went mechanical fuel pump - I am getting gas - I messed with timing and it idles better I can rev it up all I want ... but when I put it in first and drop the clutch .... dead - I checked distributor today and wasn’t able to advance vacuum by sucking on line and mechanical advance weights wouldn’t move - I capped off all vacuum ports on carb just to see if that would change anything - would simple advance not working cause such a drastic effect? Any ideas? Thanks as always gang for any help - little frustrated over here 😩
Last edited by 72442455; April 11th, 2018 at 04:54 PM.
Reason: Typo
Yes, if the distributor won't advance it will die with a load. Set dwell if applicable, put a timing light on it, set timing, and see if it advances with rpm.
Yes, if the distributor won't advance it will die with a load. Set dwell if applicable, put a timing light on it, set timing, and see if it advances with rpm.
thank you! Might take a few days to get back to it - I will keep you posted.
Yes, if the distributor won't advance it will die with a load. Set dwell if applicable, put a timing light on it, set timing, and see if it advances with rpm.
actually (sorry replied before I thought about it - long work day and beat) I did put it to the timing light and wasn’t getting mechanical advance - I didn’t do vacuum with the light though - but I can’t twist the distributor for any advance or move the weights with cap off - no expert but is it seized? Replace? Repair? Hit it with a hammer? Any recommendations? Thanks!
Newbie question but.... can I buy a new distributor for it and just drop it in OR does it have to mate with the cam kinda like a differential ring and pinion gear?
Yes you can buy a replacement or put a parts wanted ad in the classifieds if you want the exact pn# for your car. There are many youtube videos on how to disassemble one and rebuild it. Or you can send yours out to get rebuilt.
Yes you can buy a replacement or put a parts wanted ad in the classifieds if you want the exact pn# for your car. There are many youtube videos on how to disassemble one and rebuild it. Or you can send yours out to get rebuilt.
The weights can be removed from top of distributor and cleaned up.
I’ll give it a shot - but honestly leaning towards new distributor with hei and electronic ignition - have to read up on the conversion as I’ve never done one - thanks!
Hard to beat a set of points, when HEI module dies your dead in the water without another module. Clean the points and back in action, never know when the module will die.
When a condenser fails you are dead in the water also. I have seen points so bad that there was not enough to clean and regap. There are good and bad with any system you use, just plan accordingly.
When a condenser fails you are dead in the water also. I have seen points so bad that there was not enough to clean and regap. There are good and bad with any system you use, just plan accordingly.
would the failed condensor allow the car to idle and rev but die under load? I am going to have a closer look at the points, weights, springs, and vacuum advance if the weather ever straightens up over here 😩.
No a bad condenser would lead to backfiring and usually a no start, it is not causing your issue. You need to cure why you not getting timing advance with rpm increases.
When a condenser fails you are dead in the water also. I have seen points so bad that there was not enough to clean and regap. There are good and bad with any system you use, just plan accordingly.
Never had a condenser fail and kill engine in 44 years. Module on HEI failed that was only 5 years old, pulled car out of garage and engine died. Had to replace module. If points and condenser are maintained on these lithely used cars the failure rate would be very small if at all.
I've seen 4, 2 on model A's 1 on a 62 Chevy, and 1 on my 68 Coronet R/T. I agree a points system is a bit easier to troubleshoot, but both can fail easily. It takes the same amount of time to change a module as it does a set of points.
Let us get on track here with some basic trouble shootin...
1. Verify proper fuel supply AND pressure (examine the filter too, is the gas fresh?).
2. Verify zero vacuum leaks (by inspecting ALL lines, carb base gasket and verifying the vacuum advance is working and the diaphragm isn't leaking. Sounds like it isn't working?
3. Did you use the correct base gasket under the carb? Did you torque the carb? It's really easy to over tighten and warp).
4. Verify proper spark is present and "read" all 8 plugs.
5. With a timing light and tac/dwell meter verify base timing(10-12* BTDC), and dwell 30* or .016-.018" gap with clean contacts. Never run a greasy feeler gauge into points. Clean feeler gauge and points with contact cleaner or brake cleaner wipe with a lint-free cloth. If you cant twist the distributor with the hold down clamp loose then the dist is frozen in the block. Verify this. If it's frozen we'll get into that.
6. With a vacuum gauge hooked up to INTAKE manifold vacuum, how many Hg's are you seeing at warm curb idle? Is it steady? Adjust air fuel screws to obtain the highest vac reading possible.
Your distributor visually looks pretty clean. The springs look sprung so they may need to be replaced. Good opportunity to custom tune the mechanical curve. The slight bit of rust dust at the weight pivots suggest the weights are moving. They and the rub blocks need to be cleaned and conservatively lubed for sure. Grab the top of the dist and wiggle side to side. Should be zero side to side movement, up/down is normal.
That one piece point set is junk. Purchase a high-quality Standard blue-streak point set and matching separate condenser. Get the proper bracket and screw to hold down the condenser. Verify the black wire running through the distributor to the coil isn't frayed, broken or grounding out anywhere on the distributor body or breaker plate. Clean and lube the point set cam and point set bumper block.
With the answers to 1-6 answered, we can better assist you and prevent tail chasing and unneeded cost, throwing unnecessary parts at it.
Last edited by droldsmorland; April 14th, 2018 at 08:12 PM.
Let us get on track here with some basic trouble shootin...
1. Verify proper fuel supply AND pressure (examine the filter too, is the gas fresh?).
2. Verify zero vacuum leaks (by inspecting ALL lines, carb base gasket and verifying the vacuum advance is working and the diaphragm isn't leaking. Sounds like it isn't working?
3. Did you use the correct base gasket under the carb? Did you torque the carb? It's really easy to over tighten and warp).
4. Verify proper spark is present and "read" all 8 plugs.
5. With a timing light and tac/dwell meter verify base timing(10-12* BTDC), and dwell 30* or .016-.018" gap with clean contacts. Never run a greasy feeler gauge into points. Clean feeler gauge and points with contact cleaner or brake cleaner wipe with a lint-free cloth. If you cant twist the distributor with the hold down clamp loose then the dist is frozen in the block. Verify this. If it's frozen we'll get into that.
6. With a vacuum gauge hooked up to INTAKE manifold vacuum, how many Hg's are you seeing at warm curb idle? Is it steady? Adjust air fuel screws to obtain the highest vac reading possible.
Your distributor visually looks pretty clean. The springs look sprung so they may need to be replaced. Good opportunity to custom tune the mechanical curve. The slight bit of rust dust at the weight pivots suggest the weights are moving. They and the rub blocks need to be cleaned and conservatively lubed for sure. Grab the top of the dist and wiggle side to side. Should be zero side to side movement, up/down is normal.
That one piece point set is junk. Purchase a high-quality Standard blue-streak point set and matching separate condenser. Get the proper bracket and screw to hold down the condenser. Verify the black wire running through the distributor to the coil isn't frayed, broken or grounding out anywhere on the distributor body or breaker plate. Clean and lube the point set cam and point set bumper block.
With the answers to 1-6 answered, we can better assist you and prevent tail chasing and unneeded cost, throwing unnecessary parts at it.
thank you so much! Weather went to hell here - this will take me several days if not the rest of the week. I will get back to you when I have it all answered. Thanks again! ~ Joe
actually (sorry replied before I thought about it - long work day and beat) I did put it to the timing light and wasn’t getting mechanical advance - I didn’t do vacuum with the light though - but I can’t twist the distributor for any advance or move the weights with cap off - no expert but is it seized? Replace? Repair? Hit it with a hammer? Any recommendations? Thanks!
i have to have another look at it - I might have oops’d on my diagnosis - I did a lot of reading and now understand distributors a bit better - I’m no master mechanic but am learning as fast as I can - the vacuum advance appears to be bad but have to have another look at mechanical - freezing rain and misery in Michigan at the moment - next weekend will be nice 🤘🏼
I’m going to systematically go step by step through everything and make sure everything is doing what it is suppose to be doing and fix any issues and take it from there - I rebuilt the carb and that didn’t solve the problem - I obviously don’t know how to diagnose this issue so need the step by step - I really REALLY appreciate all the help! ~ Joe R.
What ever you do, Do Not trade in your distributor as a core. What kind of Points and Condenser are inside? As was stated already, Purchase a high-quality Standard blue-streak point set and matching separate condenser. Get the proper bracket and screw to hold down the condenser.
For your information they will offer 2 different types of points. You will want the heavier spring. Also consider the Blue Streak Distributor Cap and Rotor.
1) fuel is good - new filters - put an inline pressure gauge and I’m at 5.9 to 6.9
2) no vacuum leaks - did a vacuum test and I’m steady at 21 Hg’s - quick pump to throttle drops it down and it recovers quickly - looks good
3) correct carb base - didn’t over torque carb
4) I purchased a new vac advance module, the blue streak points and condenser, a new spring kit for mech advance (was cheap figured what the hell) I also got a new ignition coil ....
I apparently was having too much fun playing with my car so the girl friend creates yard honey do’s - so was unable to complete the “fire” portion of my testing - but I put it back together (minus the tach wire I had hooked to ignition coil) to move it so I could do her yard duties and it started easily and rolls down the street again!
I plan on installing all my “fire” toys ASAP and setting the dwell - timing - and a/f - but it is running as good as It did last summer right now.
could it have something to do with that tach wire? It’s a factory tic toc tac but it’s inoperatable - I hooked it up end of last summer to see if it would work - it didn’t - but since I had it hooked up correctly I left it that way - seems to time out with when it started to act up but unsure - is it possible that could have something to do with the “stall under load” issue I was having?
either way it’s good to know what’s going on with my car - I was just guessing at vacuum and fuel before - now I know!
Today I put in the new ignition coil - new vac advance canister - new separate blue streak points and condensor - and a set of medium springs - I ran out of time but fired it up just to make sure I put it together correctly and it started up - it ran rough but I imagine that it would because I haven’t set the point gap yet - I have some questions - I can’t put a breaker bar to the crank as it has no center bolt - just four bolts around the pulley
Best I could take pics - thoughts? This is what the center of my crank pulley looks like I can’t get a strap wrench between the crank pulley and water pump pulley - any suggestions? Can I starter bump the engine to get points in right position? Also I’m not sure how weights for mech advance are suppose to move? I took them off and put them back on with new springs - I could “push” the plate that holds the points but could t move weights at all
Is this center oval ish piece suppose to move independent of the dog bone looking plate it sits on? Because mine doesn’t.
Lastly I atttached my old points pics for analysis
Still trying to solve my “turn engine over manually” hard to tell with CSM but here’s what I think I’ve got going on - my CSM is for my 72 cutlass convertible - but the engine is a 68 455 toronado - I have the 3 groove 4 volt crank pulley n it
Top view The CSM shows this
This very front bolt (left of pic) The 160 ft lb torque bolt Do I have to pull the three groove four bolt crank pulley to access that center bolt to crank engine over by hand?
I think this is what I have Front view - am I missing something that goes in the center here? Thought I read something about a “dampener?” Any ideas?
Its a hardened bolt and thick washer. Post a parts wanted classified asking for one, someone on here should have it close to you. Clean the hole really well.
Its a hardened bolt and thick washer. Post a parts wanted classified asking for one, someone on here should have it close to you. Clean the hole really well.
Parts wanted worked like a charm! Many many helpful people here! Thanks for your patience with me oldscutlass and everybody else! Thanks for helping me with all this priceless information and helping me navigate this wonderful site with all these amazing people!
I have my crank bolt and washer on order and I also picked up a dwell meter on eBay.
Dwell is spot on at 30 Degrees - timing and a/f are adjusted and car now runs Better than it ever has for me! Thanks all!
Few issues still pending - mechanical advance will not advance (can’t get any the plate to rotate at all) And haven’t tested vacuum advance yet but do have new module on - any ideas?
Lastly - does anyone have an original 68 455 out of a toronado that could post a picture of the crank pulley assembly - this is what I’m looking at with mine - just curious
68 455 toronado crank pulley center view
Here is a picture of the crank with the bolt in the end. The balance is sitting on to of the engine, it slips over the crank and is drawn all the way in by the bolt. Looking at your picture, Looks like it has been missing for a very long time.
April 11th, 2018, 04:52 PM
