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Car wonít run right - need help gang

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Old May 6th, 2018, 03:43 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
For absolute clarification, I just pulled the crank bolt out of a virgin 1969, 455 I have on a stand.

IT IS A....3/4" x 16 UNF (or 16 threads per inch or TPI) fine thread with a 1 1/8" 6 point socket head. It is ~1.975" or just under 2" in length
The thick washer is ~0.380" thick x ~1.90" in diameter
Thanks for all your help! Most of my weekend eaten up with honey dos and mini van brakes - but had time to get the damper bolt in and soak the mechanical advance with penetrating oil (jury still out) oh and replaced all my interior lights with leds - pic to follow
One small step for newbie olds enthusiast - one giant leap for olds kind!
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Old May 6th, 2018, 03:45 PM
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Interior LEDs 😃

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Old May 6th, 2018, 04:13 PM
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Glad that worked out with the crank bolt.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
Glad that worked out with the crank bolt.
thanks - man the car is running fantastic! It was a no go on the mechanical advance though - will have to pull that distributor and monkey with it
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Old May 7th, 2018, 02:36 PM
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Take pix of said errant distributor. Never seen one that was frozen so hard in that manner.
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Old May 7th, 2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
Take pix of said errant distributor. Never seen one that was frozen so hard in that manner.
will do
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Old May 7th, 2018, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
Take pix of said errant distributor. Never seen one that was frozen so hard in that manner.
Here was my attempt to free it - I covered everything else up so I didnít get penetrating oil on things that I shouldnít - will try and take a video of itís little bit of movement Incase Iím missing something.
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Old May 7th, 2018, 07:16 PM
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Sorry I meant when its disassembled.
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Old May 7th, 2018, 07:55 PM
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I will add to Eric and Ken's response to the timing thing. I've been doing this for 40 years and never once base-timed a stock or nearly stock engine at anything above curb idle. High perf engines yes because they wont idle below 1000.

I want to know exactly what the base is, then how much the vacuum is adding. To me, 11-1200rpm doesn't make sense, You are off the vac can and into the mechanical??? But I've never been accused of brilliance. Humm I'll have ta dig into why the factory would design that?

All of the Motors and Chilton books I have stated the same thing... curb idle for a given listed engine. BUT I don't have books above 1969, though I've tuned many a 70 and up Olds and all others. Maybe it has something to do with emissions? But an engine isn't running efficiently if the timing is set at say 1200. So when it comes down to idle in my mind it's going to be retarded off the optimum setting.

While this above-idle factory timing suggestion could very well be an early attempt at emission reduction. I'd ignore big brother and do it like I've been doing it for 40+ years. Never once had a complaint. In fact just the opposite.

Set base timing at curb idle. Bring in the vacuum at idle and figure out where you want to limit that. Then figure out where you want the mechanical event to start and end for the total. Basically, listen to what the engine is telling you. Give it as much timing as it will handle shy of detonation.

Lastly, one of the best things I ever did was send my distributors to someone with a SUN distributor machine and have them dial in what I needed per the engine setup. You will be surprised what a smooth transition and throttle response you will get when a distributor is set up right.
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Old May 7th, 2018, 10:15 PM
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I do not disagree with you on the timing method you posted above, but for whatever reason the factory literature (including the tune up sticker on the radiator top plate) shows to set the initial at 1100 RPM for all but the hi-performance engines.

See the chart on this link and note the footnote (5) that says at 1100 RPM.

http://www.tpocr.com/olds2.html
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Old May 8th, 2018, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
Take pix of said errant distributor. Never seen one that was frozen so hard in that manner.
I will once itís dissasembled - hereís the video I promised -
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Old May 8th, 2018, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Fun71 View Post
I do not disagree with you on the timing method you posted above, but for whatever reason the factory literature (including the tune up sticker on the radiator top plate) shows to set the initial at 1100 RPM for all but the hi-performance engines.

See the chart on this link and note the footnote (5) that says at 1100 RPM.

http://www.tpocr.com/olds2.html
Never seen these timing spec's before with such high RPM's.
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Old May 8th, 2018, 07:33 AM
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Lets not confuse the issue with performance timing at this time. Lets get the car to run on stock specs, which is not nearly as complicated, and get his frozen or locked distributor to function correctly.

72442455, I wish you were closer, I have a dist. on the shelf I'd just give you.

Turn yours over and look at the underside of the dist and see if anything is mechanically locking it in place.
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Old May 8th, 2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
Lets not confuse the issue with performance timing at this time. Lets get the car to run on stock specs, which is not nearly as complicated, and get his frozen or locked distributor to function correctly.

72442455, I wish you were closer, I have a dist. on the shelf I'd just give you.

Turn yours over and look at the underside of the dist and see if anything is mechanically locking it in place.
Iím in Lansing / Grand Rapids MI area - where are you at? (Just curious) I havenít pulled it yet (life getting in the way) and rain coming soon so might be a few - thanks for your continued help!
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Old May 8th, 2018, 03:13 PM
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Old May 10th, 2018, 07:26 AM
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Not only is it stuck it looks like its partially engaged IE the mechanical is partially open as the weights are flopping around. Definitely needs to come apart. Id suggest tighter springs as well. As a starting point. Then back off one spring at a time until you achieve a favorable end result.
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Old May 10th, 2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by classicmuscle.442 View Post
Never seen these timing spec's before with such high RPM's.
So you have never seen an emissions decal under the hood?
This is the same information that is in every publication with tune up specs.




Last edited by Fun71; May 10th, 2018 at 10:19 AM.
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Old May 10th, 2018, 01:16 PM
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I always got a kick out of the "Idle mixture preset at factory. Do not remove caps." statement. I can't count how many of those I drilled out the little plugs or broke the caps off of because the engine would not idle.
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Old May 10th, 2018, 07:37 PM
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Confirms my suspicion that it was a feeble attempt at emission reduction. I never paid attention to it.
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Old May 10th, 2018, 08:29 PM
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It wasn't just the emission years. The same procedure was used all the way back to 65, either 850 rpm or 1250 rpm depending on engine.
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Old May 11th, 2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
Not only is it stuck it looks like its partially engaged IE the mechanical is partially open as the weights are flopping around. Definitely needs to come apart. Id suggest tighter springs as well. As a starting point. Then back off one spring at a time until you achieve a favorable end result.
is there some sort of rebuild kit for it? (Havenít been able to find any Info on that) or do I simply disassemble and clean it all up - re-lube and reassemble? (If itís the later - how does that fix the side to side slop?)
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Old May 11th, 2018, 02:00 PM
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No rebuild kits really. There are two bushings on the advance plate shaft, so if those are worn they can be replaced. If the shaft itself is worn, a new one would be needed. Then lube with some grease and reassemble.
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Old May 11th, 2018, 02:49 PM
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Also - I will throw the heavy springs on after I reassemble - I have to admit though that I have no idea what Iím doing ďrecurvingĒ my distributor - I do under stand that heavier springs will take longer for the mech advance to kick in and also that - base time + mech advance + vac advance = total ďall inĒ advance - but I donít really understand what kinda curve is good or what I would require or want - I believe that I understand that ďcurveĒ means the gradual advance added per rpm as the rpm climbs - am I close to ďgetting itĒ on all this?
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Old May 11th, 2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Fun71 View Post
No rebuild kits really. There are two bushings on the advance plate shaft, so if those are worn they can be replaced. If the shaft itself is worn, a new one would be needed. Then lube with some grease and reassemble.
thanks! Will post pics once I get it disassembled
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Old May 11th, 2018, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 72442455 View Post
Also - I will throw the heavy springs on after I reassemble - I have to admit though that I have no idea what Iím doing ďrecurvingĒ my distributor - I do under stand that heavier springs will take longer for the mech advance to kick in and also that - base time + mech advance + vac advance = total ďall inĒ advance - but I donít really understand what kinda curve is good or what I would require or want - I believe that I understand that ďcurveĒ means the gradual advance added per rpm as the rpm climbs - am I close to ďgetting itĒ on all this?
For now just leave the stock springs on the advance. Don't create more problems until you get it to work correctly stock.
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Old May 11th, 2018, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 72442455 View Post
and also that - base time + mech advance + vac advance = total “all in” advance
In actual operation, you will rarely ever have the vacuum advance and mechanical advance giving full advance at the same time.When the throttle is fully open, vacuum goes to near zero, so there is no vacuum advance when the engine is WOT in the upper RPM range.

For what you are doing, total advance = initial advance + mechanical advance. You set those with the vacuum advance disconnected. The point of recurving is to get the total advance at a reasonable RPM (that RPM level is dependent upon the engine configuration).
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Old May 11th, 2018, 05:44 PM
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Its not rare that you have full mechanical and full vacuum if you set you mechanical total to come in at 2500 - 2800 rpm. At cruise you can easily have it all in at highway speeds which is why setting your vacuum advance up correctly is critical.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 04:24 AM
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I removed you hyd leak post because you have another thread started with it. How did you do with the advance issue?
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Old May 17th, 2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
I removed you hyd leak post because you have another thread started with it. How did you do with the advance issue?
thanks - I posted it first to the other thread but wasnít sure if that was the correct place - couldnít find convertibles or hydraulics so I posted it here - but I understand why you killed the duplicate - still havenít pulled the distributor - hoping to do so the weekend after next - I put the top pump in because itís in the pile of goodies I got for the car in winter time (I have no where to work on it so had to wait til spring) until I get to the distributor (doing it at my step dads - he has part washers and all the goodies) Iím going to try and solve the leaky hydraulic - but second I get distributor apart Iíll post pics - thanks for your continued help!!!

~ Joe R
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Old May 25th, 2018, 12:45 PM
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Distributor out - will send disassembled pix soon - do I need to get the oil pump rod out or not necessary? Do I need to pull this?
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Old May 25th, 2018, 03:56 PM
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No leave the pump rod in there. Look under the mechanical advance assy and see if there is anything keeping it from moving.
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Old May 25th, 2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
No leave the pump rod in there. Look under the mechanical advance assy and see if there is anything keeping it from moving.
i took off all the points etc - out looking for a punch - but I really blasted it with Kroil and worked it back and forth - the vac advance plate is moving - got the mech advance to move as well but VERY stiff - just got an o ring kit to replace it - once I get the punch gonna pull it apart and soak it over night in the parts cleaner tub - all sound reasonable? And what grease do I use when reassembling?
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Old May 25th, 2018, 05:17 PM
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Some random pics - new standard blue streak cap and rotor on order
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Old May 25th, 2018, 06:13 PM
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I used synthetic wheel bearings grease.
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Old May 25th, 2018, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Fun71 View Post
I used synthetic wheel bearings grease.
thank you - what are the crucial areas to lube? The entire shaft and a little between the plates?
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Old May 25th, 2018, 10:47 PM
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From what I recall, there's one oil seal at the top and a second at the bottom of the housing, so I put grease between the two, then inserted the shaft. I don't recall putting any grease between the plates.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Fun71 View Post
From what I recall, there's one oil seal at the top and a second at the bottom of the housing, so I put grease between the two, then inserted the shaft. I don't recall putting any grease between the plates.
thanks again!
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Old May 26th, 2018, 07:39 AM
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https://youtu.be/x-T7ybo8Xlc

Thoughts? Need to be shimmed or look acceptable?
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Old May 26th, 2018, 07:41 AM
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Old May 26th, 2018, 07:57 AM
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No, since the dist rotates ccw, it pulls the shaft down.
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