fast442

I have a 1969 Cutlass 442 - 400 auto trans, and I wanted to get some help on all the #s I should be checking on my car to figure out which parts might be original for a "real 442" (and number's matching).

Here's what I have so far, on the window Vin, the #s starts "3 44 67 9 M" then follows the six digit production sequence. Note: the 3 = "olds division", 44 = "442", 67 = "convertible", 9 = "69", M = "Lansing".

Now when I read the data plate located inside the engine compartment, I noticed this sequence number (six digits located on top right of data tag) does NOT match the 6 digit sequence number on the window Vin. Shouldn't these two 6 digit production sequence #s match each other?

Note: the Data Plate also states the PNT color as 69B = "Platinum" exterior with "Black" convert top, and the TR is 935 = "Red". The car does show the original Platinum silver paint in the trunk area under the current repaint, and the interior is Red and looks original. That's a good sign.

Also note on the Data Plate, I believe the 11B is the body build date which is "Nov 2nd week". And the color painted on the engine block is Bronze (which I believe is correct color for the 400 engine from 65-69 years).


Here are my questions:
1) because the two 6 digit sequence #s do not match, does this mean someone put together the body/dash from two seperate cars??? Or, can this car still be 'matching numbers' car becuase GM actually did the production sequence differently off the assembly line and had non-matching sequence #s for the Fisher body???

2) should I check certain numbers on the engine, heads, or manifolds to see if those parts are original to a "real 442" car? And would the engine block # match the Window Vin or Data Plate production sequence???

3)the casting number is hard to read, but it looks like "39???6G", so should this casting # match something else on the car, or tell me some clues to match a "real 442"?

4)one last clue... although the #s located on the head/manifold areas are hard to read, they look to be:

• driversides: "+C 15 384 548"
• passenger side: "394 548 GM"

5)after I figure out the engine/body, any suggestions to check and match #s on the trans or rear end ? Where and what to look for would be helpful to me.

Thanks!!!

MDchanic

Bingo.
The number on the Fisher Body tag is an internal plant accounting number. If you find a build sheet, it will have both the cowl tag number and the VIN on it.

The engine number is here:

The sequence part of the number should match the sequence part of your VIN.

The trans should have a sequence number that corresponds to your VIN as well.

Others can address the 442 fine points.

- Eric

1969w3155

The Fisher Body Manual states that the data tag on many 68-69 442's used the Cutlass body number. So yours is correct. The vin shows that it is a 442 (34467).

rcorrigan5

A couple of other points:

TR 935: Not only means red interior, it also means strato bucket seats.

11B: is the second week in November, as you said, 1968. The production year for 1969 started around mid-August 1968 and ran to the end of July 1969.

Engine block casting number if original: 396026 G. It doesn't match the VIN or assembly plant body number unless it's a pure coincidence.

Heads if original: "C" heads, casting number 394548.

Exhaust manifolds: driver side casting letter "W", number 402295; passenger side casting letter Z, number 402294.

Intake manifold: 398662 (cast iron).

Keep in mind some of these casting numbers are very hard to read. An 8 can sometimes look like a 9; a 6 can sometimes look like an 8, and so forth. If what you have is close and you can't discern one of the numbers that might look like it may or may not be the right one, I'd say it's probably the correct part.

If you have power steering, the VIN stamped into the pad on the block will be very difficult to read because it is blocked by a bracket. A mirror, a flashlight, and a clean surface where the VIN derivative is stamped, will help. That VIN derivative should look like "39Mnnnnnn" where the n sequence is the same as the last 6 numbers of your windshield VIN. You should also have this same VIN derivative stamped into your transmission on the driver side, be it an auto or manual transmission. If you have an automatic transmission, there should be an ID tag on the passenger side (aft and slightly above where the tranny dip stick tube goes into the transmission) that has the letters "OG" on it. If the tranny has been rebuilt, lots of times the lettering disappears because it "comes off in the wash". There are also some numbers and letters stamped into this tag, indicating the model year and transmission serial number (unrelated to your windshield VIN).

Randy C.

MDchanic

But sometimes you can still see it if you look at just the right angle.

- Eric

fast442

Thanks guys! This was very helpful.

I didn't know that TR 935 not only means red interior, but it also means strato bucket seats (which my car does has).

You're right, after a closer look, my Engine block casting number 396026G. Glad to know it doesn't need to match the VIN or assembly plant body number.

And yes, the Heads look original because they state "C" with casting number 394548.
Note: I mistakengly wrote down 384538, but after double checking, it's actually 394548. You are right, the 8 does look a lot like a 9, but it's an 8 for sure.

I'll have to triple check the exhaust manifolds and look for driver side casting letter "W", number 402295; passenger side casting letter Z, number 402294, along with the Intake manifold: 398662 (cast iron).

I took a mirror and flashlight and the checked the VIN stamp and sure enough it matches the windshield Vin. That's a relief.

I'll also checked the VIN ID tag on the Trans (as you noted, passenger side, aft and slightly above where the tranny dip stick tube goes into the transmission) and that looks like letters "OG" but the other numbers and letters stamped into this tag are very hard to read. I'm going to clean it up some more and get a better light, then try again to read the model year and transmission serial number.

I had a grerat day of cleaning the engine compatment and undercarriage. It now looks great and I have noted all the numbers I've uncovered.

2blu442

Here's a thread showing where to find the vin stamped in your transmission. This was begun in 1968 and the bottom picture, natural metal color is a TH400 John

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-original.html

fast442

awesome, thanks. I spotted it and it does match the Vin on the windshield! I also have a small red puddle on the floor,so I gave the pan nuts a good half turn on some, full turn on others, then wiped them clean and sure enough, they stayed clean it stopped the leak.

rcorrigan5

A few other things to look for:

1. Engine unit number: doesn't match up with any other numbers on your car, but the oil fill tube should have a number stamped into it that starts with a 9. The 9 is the model year and the numbers after it represent the engine unit number. There should also be a decal on the tube, above the stamped numbers, that either says "QR" (if you don't have A/C) or "QS" (if you have A/C).

2. Your carburetor should have the part number 7029251 stamped into a vertical surface on the driver side aft area of the carb body, along with the broadcast code "RJ". Some '69 carbs don't have a date code and some do. I've noticed that the carbs having a date code omit the "70" portion of the part number (only 29251 is stamped into that vertical surface). The date code should normally precede the build date of your car by about 2 weeks to 2 months, but dates vary from time to time and can precede the build date of your car from as little as a day to as much as 6 months.

3. Your coil should have BR 292 on it to be a original style.

4. Water pumps: If you have A/C or heavy duty cooling, an original water pump has the number 400269 cast into it. Without A/C or heavy duty cooling, the original water pump casting number is 398681.

5. Your distributor should have the number 1111933 stamped into it. You can see this number just below the bottom edge of your distributor cap. A date code will follow the distributor number.

6. If you have A/C, an original alternator will have the number 1100852 stamped into it, along with a date code. Without A/C, the original alternator part number is 1100853.

7. You can also tell what your differential is supposed to be by the two-letter or letter-number code stamped into the passenger side axle tube. Most of the time, the code faces aft but sometimes it faces forward. If the axle tube is a bit crusty, you will have to look for the code but you will eventually find it. Also, if there is a metal tag attached to one of the bolts on your differential cover (usually on one of the lower bolts and is easy to see just by looking at the differential cover from behind the car), you have an anti-spin rear axle. I found the differential code on my '69 by squeezing myself between the garage floor and the axle tube (it was facing forward which, as I understand, is uncommon). If you know someone with a lift (or have one yourself!), the code is much easier to find. Since your car was built in Lansing, here are a few of the codes you might see:
SC: 3.08:1 ratio with drum brakes
S4: 3.08:1 ratio with disc brakes in front
SE: 3.23:1 ratio with drum brakes
S6: 3.23:1 ratio with disc brakes in front
SD: 3.08:1 ratio with anti-spin axle and drum brakes
S5: 3.23:1 ratio with anti-spin axle and disc brakes in front
TM: 3.42:1 ratio with anti-spin axle and drum brakes
S9: 3.42:1 ratio with anti-spin axle and disc brakes in front

Hope this additional info helps without sending you on wild goose chases!

Randy C.
'68 4-4-2 convertible (restored)
'69 4-4-2 convertible (a work in progress)

fast442

Randy, this is some great info and really helps me document the car and its original parts. Thanks so much. I plan to check all these items next weekend and will keep ya posted on the turnout. Thanks. glenn

Carsick

Awsome info in this thread. I have a 69 442 Sports coupe that I just started trying to learn more about. This info is a huge time saver .Any ideas as to a good cam upgrade , th400, a.c , power brakes . THANKS!
20141103_131724_zps1jkbgkcv.jpg

Diego

It's just "1969 4-4-2" without the Cutlass. :twocents:

1969w3155

Carsick, post your cam question in it's own thread, you'll have a better response.