jensenracing77

I am not looking to nitpick this car because it is a beautiful car, but just an FYI, The rear end that is pictured in this car is NOT a W-27 rear end as advertised and has a reproduction cover.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181699483461...83461&viewitem=

Lonestar

Very nice car... says it comes with GM Heritage documentation. Did they overlook the W-27... how thorough is the documentation process, or is it more likely the rear end was changed? Trying to become more educated here...

jensenracing77

The GM Heritage documentation will have to be explained by someone else. I never heard of it myself. Maybe it is a Canada thing? GM in the USA can not document anything for a W-30. If it is something for real they can't be to good at it because this is an iron rear end that was painted.

oldspackrat

Shouldn't his washer jar be on the other side?? How can you tell it's not aluminum, by the pitting?

sammy

It may have come with it originally, and he has put a repro on. GM Heritage docs are available for any Olds sold in Canada. It is run by Vintage Vehicle Services, and the records are very thorough. There are examples in the forum of their docs...do a search. It is the most reliable source when tracing your cars history, including the w cars. Best 100$ I ever spent

sammy

here is mine I received for my w30...pretty thorough

Lonestar

I'm no expert but you can see where the housing & axle tubes are welded together in the OP's link. In the attached pics you can see they're bolted together, the housing is clearly aluminum, and the cover is obviously different...

Diego

If it's GM Heritage Center out of Sterling Heights, they don't certify cars nor do they have the records of such.

Isn't Level One out from that area? Was it restored by them?

BangScreech4-4-2

Nice, but shouldn't a '71 W-30 be rated at 340 hp rather than 300 hp? Or did they go to net ratings earlier in Canada?

Diego

That's net hp. GM advertised both.

And it was rated at 350 gross.

BangScreech4-4-2

No, this is in Canada and it only applies to cars built or sold in Canada. It's referred to as "Vintage Vehicle Services of GM Canada".

Diego

I know what the item posted above is, but we don't know about the claim made in the eBay auction. I was suggesting it was something else.

BangScreech4-4-2

Right, 350. I thought net ratings came in in '72, though. Oh well, George Zapora doesn't lie.

jensenracing77

The W-27 has more ribbs and is much differant.

fast eddie

Looks like a Chevy 12 bolt... is that what Canada cars came with? I'm 20 miles from the car; I can go up there and hang a magnet on it and **** them off!

oldsmobiledave

The Chevy 12 bolt was used under Oshawa built cars in 1968-69. No Oldsmobiles were made in Canada after the end of 1969 production.

jensenracing77

I sent him a respectful message that it was not a real W-27 but also that it was a nice car. Not looking to make him mad or anything because he may simply not know. This is his response.


The reared in a real W27. We cannot prove that the W27 was part of the original build due to the degradation of the build sheets or Punch cards however the W27 was in the car per the restorer when he purchased it. The punch cards verify the true build date and that it is a real W30. Numbers on tranny, carburetor, heads engine block are all correct. Based on that authenticity it is reasonable that so is the rearend. However I cannot validate that. GM Heritage center further confirmed the 442 s W3O authenticity.

Octania

I could swear I have seen W27's with what appeared to be plug welds there. I always wondered how yu "weld" AL to FE.

Maybe I was looking at an iron diff.

The magnet will tell.

Ask him to show a magnet not sticking to the housing.

I kept looking for flaws. Other than the over-restored aspects [perfect driveshaft stripes, etc.] the only thing I could find possibly differing from my experience was I thought they used thread cutting 5/16 FLANGE HEAD bolts to secure the front stabilizer bar mounts to the frame. In black.

jensenracing77

If I was to nitpick there are lots of little things wrong with it but the car I am building has many of its own. I wasn't looking to nitpick, just that a non W-27 to a real W-27 will affect the price of the car and I hate seeing someone get screwed on something they think they are getting and don't.


The W-27 also has those plugs but the plugs themselves are not welded to the aluminum. They are welded to the axle tube

GEARMAN69

Dang ! This would be nice to get here for the US sold cars ugh..

RocketDevo

The GM Heritage center in the pass was in Lansing, and I believe it still is. Helen Yearly would usually be the person responding to your query about your Olds. They unfortunately do not have any more info on your car than what the VIN and Data plate can tell you.
On the other hand the Canadian documentation services can tell you exactly what your car is and what it came with. There are some who use the GM Heritage service falsely or ignorantly to state what there vehicle is.
Given what the seller is stating about the car, and the response the original poster received from the seller, I will for those interested do a little nitpicking.
The usual suspects: radiator, Alt, oil fill cap, oil pressure sending unit, and master cylinder are incorrect. You might say they are repro parts and the only alternative, but the originals can be found and restored.
It still is a beautiful car done very well but if the seller is going to purport it to be all original, it stands to reveal its short comings.

jensenracing77

I do agree with all that. If you are paying a premium price then you should get a premium product or close. Or at least know the truth about what you are getting. With the suspect ad listing on the W-27 it makes me wonder about restamped parts. I think he removed the listing because I can't get it to come up now.

BangScreech4-4-2

I think Helen passed away some years ago.

TenMidgets

So all that said, what's the consensus market value?

jensenracing77

Can't say with what he has posted. He has no documentation posted and in my opinion I would not trust the stampings till I seen pictures. With the information that is there and assuming everything else mentioned is true I think it is at the high point of it's value.

If I was going to list a car like that on eBay I would post pictures of ALL the numbered parts and a photo of the documents. I would not trust this car at all with no further information.

starfire

To clear a few points up so that the errors don't get passed down through generations:

Her name was Helen Early, she passed away in January of 2005. She finished her career at Oldsmobile in the Public Relations Department, retiring in 1987. From that point on she and Jim Walkinshaw organized the Oldsmobile History Center in Lansing, Michigan (and wrote a couple of books about Oldsmobile). If you wrote to the History Center Helen would send you all the information she could find regarding your car. Usually it was fairly generic stuff, nothing about your specific car, but a lot of good information anyway. Sometime in the early to mid 2000's, GM consolidated all of the divisions history centers into one location, the GM Heritage Center in Sterling Heights, Michigan and so all the Oldsmobile stuff (other than some items which were left at the RE Olds Transportation Museum) was sent to GMHC.

As RocketDevo said, the GMHC doesn't have any more information than was available at the OHC (although I think they have some things in archives that even they don't know what it is as there is not enough manpower to sort it all out). As I understand it, all the pre-1977 car specific information was lost in a "fire or something" back in the '80's in Lansing. I personally think it got thrown out by some lout before Helen and Jim could get to it and save it.

Octania

Wow, all that wrong?
I don't feel qualified to pick this one's nits.

I do suspect the decklid stickers came from the folks who are spelling and grammar deficient though:

"SET PARKING BREAK..."

BangScreech4-4-2

That's hilarious! I didn't see it the first time through. Kind of kills the whole car's credibility, doesn't it? That's what they get for buying offshore stickers in bulk.

jensenracing77

I give him more information as to why it is not a real W-27 and this is his response. He may be honest and got screwed himself on the car? Either way, I would have to see it in person to trust anything else on the car.

You are correct. I will be correcting the description tonight. My sincere apologies. I am not an "expert" and was trusting one that supposedly was. All other items are correct as presented. Cowl tag, punch card and Gm Archives all verify the vins and or correct casting numbers for engine, heads, carburetor, transmission, Fisher body number, correct color and trim and the BIG ONE of being a real W30. The rear is the original and correct according to what it should have with the SF code for 3.23 Posi.

Again my sincere apologies and sincere thanks for the question and info which directed me for further research. I assure there was no intentional motive to decieve.

thanks again

Koda

An honest man who was deceived is free from blame.

cjsdad

Abraham Lincoln is quoted as saying, "When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest."

brownbomber77

I asked him specifically about the rear end and this is his response. Good fella, but let's actually see if he changes the auction itself....

No. I tested it today and it is not aluminum nor a real W27. I had accepted the word of a supposed expert and should not have. I simply was not familiar with the W27 because of its rarity and trusted others. I will be editting the listing tonight. However that said I have confirmed via the cowl tag, punch cards and GM Archives all the other components are the real deal and that the car is truly a W-30 as built in Lansing, MI. Color, Trim ect. My sincerest apologies, never my intention to decieve.
Steve

Lonestar

UPDATE: Two new postings on the auction page for those interested:


On Mar-31-15 at 19:17:28 PDT, seller added the following information:

I have verified that there is an error in the listing regarding the W27 Rear end. the card does not have a W27 rear but it is the original 3:23 POSI-TRAC rear. My sincere apologies for the error. However, all other information are correct. The car is on original rear W30 from the Lansing plant verified through matching VIN and body numbers per COWL and DASH VIN TAGS, Punch card and GM Heritage archive. Photos of all of these items are available via email. again, My sincerest apologies. I can asure that this was absolutely not an effort to be deceptive.




On Mar-31-15 at 19:28:27 PDT, seller added the following information:

I have verified there is an error in the listing regarding the W27 REAREND. The Car does not have a W27 rear but is equipped with the Factory Original 3:23 POSI-TRAC rear. My sincere apologies for the error. ALL OTHER information is correct. The Car is a FACTORY ORIGINAL W30 from the Lansing Plant verified with matching VIN, Body and component numbers per the COWL and DASH, PUNCH CARD and GM Heritage archive report. Photos of all of these items are available via email. Again, my sincerest apologies. I can assure that there was NO conscious effort to be deceptive.

GoodOldsGuyDougie

Man Nice looking Car.