442_Mustang

Ok... Not a big deal but I went and brought my car to the small local car show and ok, so I won a little "Top 50" plaque.What aggravated me was what was in the top 10 cars that won. The best in show was a very nice 56 Chev but 2nd and 3rd were these just plain nasty "Rat Rods". Honestly a buddy of mine and I could produce nicer looking (At least look like you had some plan in mind.) drivers in a weekend. 4th and 5th were a couple friends of mine with a decent 73 Trans Am and a 67 Chevelle that's rough around the edges.Driver quality older restos and both need major interior work. My father in laws 55 Tbird was somewhere in the top 10 too and that's a strict show queen that he sunk over 100k into.I hate the show scene anyways but my car is black, flat sanded without a single ripple or wave in the body, Interior is new except fot a few small chrome details(Bezels for the headrests, the seat buttons in the seat back, the turn signal lever, and I have no radio) that could use replacing. My underhood isn't really well detailed. I still need to put my inner fenderwells in and detail things like wiper motor.
My buddies figured I should have been in the top 3. What aggravates me isn't what I won. I didn't do all of this to win some 5 dollar trophy. but what passes for a "Show car/ Show winner". Anyone else have any similar bad experiences?

starfire

If it was a "peoples choice" judged show, that's the way they go. People vote for what they like the looks of, not what is "better" than something else.

firefrost gold

withrow area ( stillwater hugo) is putting on the 4th year now car show we have it at the withrow ballroom and sals bar and grill. There are some tractors there that have smoother paint and decal's that those rat rods , Good for them for getting a old car back on the road but I too am not a rat rod fan I like a pitina car but a all out rat I can leave. by the way thats on september 25 I will get some flyers up soon .

442_Mustang

These weren't patina'd rides, just a bunch of scrap metal on a newer frame with some booger welds. Sponsored by French Lake auto parts. It's not even remotely safe or legal I'm sure.

VikingBlue

Several years I had just gotten a top dollar body/paint job and brand new interior on my 71 convertible. car looked like a million bucks. brought it to my town's show. Only three other cars in my judging class, and all three were 'driver quality' at best..I figured there was no chance I wouldn't be top 3.

But after hanging out 5 hours it turns out those other three were chosen as top three. Lesson learned: the local judges are clueless and favor cars/owners they know. You should realize that these 'contests' are bogus and not worth your time.

starfire

Agree 100%. I go to car shows to look at the beautiful cars and talk with people about them. The only award I'm interested in is someone saying to me "Hey, nice car". There's where the acknowledgement of all the hard work comes from, not from some piece of plastic.

An example of how judging does not work: 2007 OCA Nationals. My '68 is awarded enough points for a "1st Place". 2008 OCA Nationals, exact same car, exact same condition, it is awarded only enough points for a "3rd Place". Car judging is subjective. I say don't worry about it and instead enjoy the day.

aliensatemybuick

Yup. Besides, after a while, those trophies start to accumulate and you got nowhere to put them all...

joe_padavano

I stopped worrying about car show awards years ago. I build my cars for my own enjoyment and go to cruise nights and shows to see the other cars and talk to people. In defense of real judged shows (as opposed to "people's choice" beauty contest shows), will say that doing a proper job of judging is very difficult. I served as a judge at last year's OCA Nationals and it was not easy to be 100% fair and objective.

TK-65

There is nothing wrong with going to a car show. The problems start when you expect to win, judge other peoples cars against your own, and dont like the results if you lose.

Local shows are run by volunteers, that dont know much about the cars they look at, and probably dont look at every car if the show is big. I went to a show yesterday that had over 500 cars, in classes but not grouped together. My buddy was a judge, and in order to judge all the cars in his group he had to look at every cars entry sheet to see if it was in his group. That wasnt going to happen.

Last year I had my 65 there, national award winner, mulitple magazine features. 4 awards in my class, didnt win squat. I know what I have and the fun I have with it, I dont need a two dollar trophy to validate it. Just go have fun, talk to some people, and be grateful we can do stuff like building and driving old cars.

1969w3155

We had a car show here for a few years in a great setting, high attendance, except it was soon figured out that only members of the club that put it on recieved any trophies. That killed it.

nonhog

Just add some skulls and spider webbs and your in!

I've been involved in planning small local shows and most trophies were peoples choice. At times I felt for the nicer cars owners (when they should have been the ones to win) but for me I'd rather have my car the way I want it.
Then there is the serious shows with judges. Save the chrome everything or perfect chaulk marks for the other guy. They can have the award. JMO

(I do love to see 100 point cars)

my72vert

I totally agree with Mr Padavano. I went to a couple of shows and experienced just what everyone is saying. Its your car and enjoy it. Who cares what anyone else thinks unless your building a blue chip collectible.

Redog

In the shows I went to I ran into that BS.

One show with m Alero, there was only 2 cars in my class. The "other" car was parked next to me and the windows where up, hood and trunk closed, and no kind of display. It was more like the car was parked in a parking lot.

SO I think I have this thing in the bag with my windows down, full display, hood and trunk open to show all the great and hard work I have into my car, and guess what, I didn't win, the other car did. Turns out the "winners" car, the owner knew one of the judges, talk about car show politics. In fact this car "displayed" the same way, has beat me a few times. Also my car doesn't look like ***, but neither did the other car, but with 90,000 miles on it (at the time) it looked as good as the 35,000 mile car

Antoher "car show ****" at the front gate (this was with my black Delta)

All his answers where cocky as hell too

"I'm not letting that car in"
"why"
"You're a street rod"
"Really, A regular B Body?"
"Stock engine?"
"Yeah!" (it wasn't but all Olds engines look the same on the outside )
"Pop the hood!"
(pop the hood)
"That's a Big Block Chevy"
(Now I'm pissed off)
"Wow, you aren't the guy that's judging this, because you don't know **** about cars"
"I know enough that you have a BBC in there"
"It's an Olds engine"
"No it's not"
"So you're telling me what I have in the car"
"Yeah a BBC"
"Call it a Chevy again and I'll kick your F'ing ***"
"Well, if it is an Olds engine, you still have chrome aftermaket wheels"
"Olds rally wheels are aftermarket?"
"They aren't factory"
"Yeah they are"
"No, Only Chevys and Fords had rally wheels"
(Now I'm really pissed)
"You know NOTHING about cars do you?"
"What's that supposed to mean"
"It means you know nothing about cars"
"You pull up with chrome wheels and a Chevy engine in an Olds"
(at this point another guy walks over)
"What's going on here?"
"I'm not letting this guy in"
"I heard you say he has a BBC in here, That's a SBO"
"Really?"
"Yeah and Olds made rally wheels since the 1960's"

Well it turns out my car was too new for the show, cut off was 1979, so ******* put me in "Display only" right between a 1998 Camaro and a little MG, guess how much attention my car got that day Later they put a few 55 Vettes in front of me. I wrote the local newspaper about it and said I'll never do that show again, and I haven't

1965cutlassragtop

I go to local meets and shows, but i've decided not to enter it in judging. Def alot of favoritism and wacky judging. Never set ur expectations too high, I do this cuz I like old cars and I like to show off what I have accomplished. Can't compete with the guys who have that never-ending check book!!! All I know is...I like my car.

442much

I like car shows. I have my share of trophies but they collect dust in the garage. The only time I was upset about judging (and it didn't affect me) was a best of show award. The car show was open to all. There were your usually new cars and one new Camaro. They had just come out a few weeks before. It also won best of show.

I don't care who wins a best of show, but when you have a car with 40 miles on it competing with cars that have 40 years on them...I mean come on! I told one of the organizers that there should be a rule in place that cars should at least be 15 years old before they can win a Best of Show. He thought it was a good idea. I said what's stopping someone from renting a car and winning. The show should reflect the dedication, pride and hard work people put into their cars.

Turns out the car wasn't rented, it belonged to a dealer who brought it to the show to advertise.

442_Mustang

I don't care that I didn't win best of show or anything like that.My buddies cars aren't even close to the shape mine is but I'm just disgusted that total piles of scrap metal is what wins the day. I'd think it was just as stupid if I didn't have my car there. My car is a "Driver" I drove it to a couple shows last year and didn't enter it.I went as a spectator. Only reason I was there with my car at all is to hang out with my buddies that I don't get to see as often as I should. Also, the judging was by the contestants. You got a ballot when you entered. I didn't even fill my ballot out.My buddys wife wanted one to fill out and I gave her mine. Don't know how she filled it out. I'm all over a tasty origional old school car/ barn find or even something thatis a recent build but looks authentic and looks loke there was a master plan. Instead, these piles looked like large scale wagons being pulled through a swap meet loaded with parts for a classic car, a lawn tractor and a boat. The local group, "Frankensteiners" do tons of rat rod runs and events. I've just had my fill of them

19Starfire62

I usually hit about 5 - 6 shows a year. We mostly place in the top 20. I choose the show based on the charity that it is tied to. Ya gotta remember that street rods rule at most of these shows. If you have a Nova with a big block, you're in.

car_designer

With a 4-door Delta, I never expect to get anything at a local car show. Locally there are some of all types of shows (judged, people's choice, show and shine) and by far the show and shine shows seem to be the most popular. Many car owners say they would prefer the money for awards be spent on more door prizes.

I have won a few awards, and I am happy to have won them but I think I would prefer door prizes over awards.

442_Mustang

Heh... I've got a 70 Nova and I'm scraping together a big block for it... Duh... Winning!

19Starfire62

If you had a mid-60's Nova you would be certain to win. Still with a 70, make some room for your trophies to come.

cutlassgal

When it's participant or peoples choice voting at the shows, I always vote for the ones that are still more "original". I'm not impressed by all the chrome under some of the hoods. I don't care for the rat rods either, or the ones that can be bought in a kit and put together. I really get irritated at the new Challengers, Camaros and Mustangs that show up and win. To me, it's not right. They've done nothing to the car, there's no history there. I like the cars with history to them, and talking to people and learning things. I love it when my car brings someone a happy memory and they tell me a story about the one they used to have!!

442_Mustang

Well my car is origional except for the wheels/tires and the engine. I have the orig. engine on a stand in the garage and my SSII wheels in the shed. It's kind of interesting to drive but fun too. lol

Aceshigh

Very well said, and I do agree.

I don't enter my cars into shows, because I'm not into that sort of thing.
I'll park it for people to look at, but that's the extent of my involvement.
I was thinking of making a billboard that says "Pro-touring NOT original" to ward off the OEM ****'s.

A thumbs up driving down the street is plenty enough for me to be happy with.

rustyroger

If you are expecting a fair judgement at a local show you are in cloud cuckoo land. The same thing happens over here and I'm sure at shows (not limited to cars) worldwide.
My sister used to breed and show rabbits, she had a cupboard full of "best of breed" prizes because she was the only exhibitor of that particular breed.....
I won a prize once for a rusty Buick with a leaking engine just because I had parked it in the judging area by mistake!.
There is a national "Car of the year" award promoted by the British "classic American" magazine. It is held over the show season and judging is done by knowledgable experienced judges. The winning car is never less than top flight, to stand any chance entrants need to spend a lot of time, effort and money and have a great car in the first place. Over the years the prize has gone to a variety of makes and ages from '50s fins'n'chrome to '80s grocery getters, all had one thing in common - they were outstanding examples of their kind.
Judging is always going to be biased no matter how impartial the judges try to be because we all have our own favourite cars. I dare say if we were judging we might tend to look favourably on Oldsmobiles, it is human nature after all. At one show I went to the winning car looked fabulous to me, but no better (from a very high standard) than the car that came second. I suspect the difference may well have boiled down to the judges knowing the winning car was driven to the show, the second placed car came on a covered trailer.
I go to shows to look at the cars, talk to the owners talk about my car and enjoy the friendly atmosphere to be found there. I know I have no realistic chance of picking up a trophy but that is not why I am there.
If you don't like the way a show is run vote with your feet and go to ones you do enjoy.

442garage

Car shows are an interesting phenomena, I have learned over the years that no matter how much time,effort, work, and expense you have invested in your car, someone always has deeper pockets and can spend more to produce the results you were hoping to achieve. The idea is to put aside any expectations of winning, enjoy making new friends and meeting new people who share in your passion for old cars. I do take issue with any late model car winning at these shows, unless the show is specifically designated as 2005 and up Camaro's, Chargers, Mustangs, PT Cruisers, ----------you fill in the blank! I also feel that "rat rods" have their place, and it usually isn't with the type of car I show. Spectator judged events are a joke, I like shows where participants judge, and there are lots of classes to give the greatest number of people a chance to win an award.

VikingBlue

follow-up on my tale of my brand new, big dollar gorgeous paint and mint interior car finishing 4th out of 4 cars in my small town show...behind three unimpressive "drivers."

A neighbor has a very nice 71 corvette. I once asked her if she was bringing it to the show and she said "yes, but another guy will bring his three corvettes and get 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in the corvette class and also the mayor's choice trophy . He wins 4 trophies every year."

Well, I've since seen it with my own eyes. Three cars four trophies every year and his cars aren't nicer than anyone elses. That's politics I guess. Whatever.

But the really sickening thing is the guy seems overjoyed every time his name is called to get his next trophy. Pumps his fist. Shouts "YES", etc. each time as if he just won Powerball. Then he walks around for a half-hour holding his 4 trophies in his arms getting into all the photos he can.

Repeat performance every year. THIS is the most pathetic adult behavior I've ever seen. I don't know whether to hate the guy or be embarrassed for him.

442garage

If you subscribe to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, one that stands out is the need for validation. Obviously, this gentleman missed out as a youngster on that particular need and is making up for feeling unwanted and inconsequential by his boorish, child like behavior.

Jamesbo

IMHO Car Shows, Dogs Shows, Horse Shows are not about Cars, Dogs or horses. They're about egos.

Egos clash, feeling get hurt and the problem goes on and on and on. Kinda like the Energizer bunny.

Oldsguy

Go on over to the HAMB and you'll see some of them over there. Many of the older members don't like them for similar feelings you have voiced and 'rat rod' is a dirty phrase , for good reason. Many people feel they can put some iron cross symbols on the rear view mirror, some spider webs on the paint someplace, use a flat black and red paint scheme and to hell with safety and any semblance of true craftsmanship. It's a fad and it will pass.

Aceshigh

I would be embarrassed for him personally. Some people are just like that.
Sounds like a real bag of douche.

No reason to hate him for it. That just gives off a perception of jealousy.

442much

That's what we do. Only one year in the last 18 where someone didn't win a door prize. Trophies at our Olds show go to the Long Distance member, the Long Distance Non-Member, The Oldest Oldsmobile at Olds, the Mayor's Choice and the RCMP certificate "The car I'd most like to commandeer in a high speed chase".

rustyroger

i think Jamesbo and Viking have summed up the issue very neatly.
Let the trophy hunters and ego inadequates have their day in the sun, focus instead on talking and exchanging ideas with the guys who have cars you like, nearly always the most interesting people you meet will be the ones who make the best of their cars with limited time and budgets.
Maybe I'm biased but I think car shows have a lot less bitching than livestock shows.
I went to a Koi Carp show once, someone had lost the key to his oxygen bottle for his fish, NO ONE would lend him a key, they would rather see his fish suffer or even die if it increased their chances of picking up a cup. Kinda like running a key down the side of a car with better paint than yours.....

DarrylJ

HEY! we got a club like that too here. My buddy brought his 69 Boss 429 Mustang with 30k original miles and lost to a bondod up pile of a 68 Galaxie 500 that one of the club members owned! It was in the same class because they split it up by years! They had no Mustang class. The Boss is a rare piece for sure and it was a joke we still laugh about to thid day.

442_Mustang

Then why don't these clubs just have a private shoe for club members only? They wouldn't have to put up with all the other cars or arrange such a large area. Screw it. I'm going to find a trophy shop and just go buy my own huge trophy. That's the ticket... lol

442_Mustang

Show...

my72vert

442 Mustang is onto something, go get yourself a cheap 10 dollar trophy and when you go to car shows, display it proudly in front of you car. Then when the so called judges come around they will see you already have a show winner. They will vote your car best in class cause other judges already did and they would'nt want to be out judged.

Run to Rund

Ed Konsmo is the new Head Judge of OCA and has made a committment to improve judging greatly. One new thing he as implemented is guidelines for maximum points deductions for specific "deficiencies." In the past, a biased judge could take off a lot of points for something, whereas another judge might take off only a few points for the same thing. Other things might or might not cause any deduction at all.

I agree with the posts above regarding subjectivity of judging, and as long as humans, and volunteers at that, do the judging, it will remain so. Most judges don't know all the fine points. For example, last year, one of the judges of my car deducted points for the fender fit at the cowl. My other car has never had the fenders or door adjusted or removed and has the exact same fit. Ed is working to get the OCA judges to understand what was normal and correct back before robots assembled the cars. It is a difficult and on-going process and local shows are generally the "worst" if you are seeking impartial and knowledgeable judging.

UK RUSS 1960 OLDS

Hi Guys,

An old thread i know, and like you many of the UK shows seem to be judged in much the same way as yours, however there is a guy over here Dave Brown who started organising a show a couple of years ago and rather than awarding trophies for this or that EVERY single car that goes on to the showfield gets an attendees trophy/memento regardless of quality, money spent, who you know, who you are, etc etc.

This seemed to work well, no bitchin about this or that, something to add to your cars history and the events were well attended.

Food for thought maybe.

Cheers.

Russ.

oldcutlass

We have get togethers here similar, with or without the little momento's. They range from show n shine's to cruise in's. I prefer the local shows over the bigger ones just to get out and share.

jaunty75

This is nice and all, but it's really nothing more than glorified dash plaques. It's been a tradition for car shows of any size to give one of those to the first 50 or 75 or 100 attendees for many years.

If we want to "up" this now to something larger like trophies, fine, but we're really just falling back to kindergarten here where everyone is a winner and they don't keep score in the kickball games because they don't want anyone's feelings hurt.