jpc647

Do any of you guys ever worry about overspending on your cars? I have a 72 cutlass "s" that is in pretty decent shape, aside from 1 door ding, and a little bubbling in the paint next to the stainless steel trim on the passenger side(next to vinyl top) the body is almost perfect. The interior was redone (light saddle) back in the last 90's and looks nice. It needs a lot of little things, tuneup, brakes, tires, the plastic wheel well pieces need to be taken off and replace and resurfaced(they have over spray on them from a previous owner, lots of little things). So it just sits in the garage I bought for it collecting dust. When I bought the car back in 2008 it seemed like a good deal. The body was real nice, and it ran good. I threw it on craigslist just to see, and didn't get much of a bite. But other cars, priced thousands higher with obvious needed body work sell.. I don't get it.

Anyone else worry about overspending never to see it back?

442much

I'll never see it back. My 442 was the first car I bought almost 32 years ago and I have no plans to sell. So every penny I've spent will never be recovered. However, the times enjoyed and the memories recalled, will never be replaced either.

Jaybird

jpc647: You have a very nice looking car. You don't have to spend to fix everything right away. Take your time and spread things out over time.
I have worried about overspending on my restoration but I am trying to get over it. Beer helps! You have to be comfortable with the car. If something bugs you about the car, repair it. I am still trying to get a few bugs out of mine. I purchased the car to enjoy not to turn around and sell it for a profit, but you also have to be realistic about your finances too. With that said, having spent too much on my car restoration, I try telling myself, what is a few thousand more. The positraction axle I just picked up from Dennis G. is a little bit of gravy for me.

jaunty75

Everybody overspends.

One of the most basic rules of thumb in the old car hobby is that you'll spend more to fix up a car than you'll ever get back when you sell it. That's why the standard advice, if spending the least overall is your objective, is to buy your collector car initially in as good a condition as you can afford. Let the SELLER take the hit on the sale. You, as the buyer will spend more upfront to acquire the car but less over the long term to maintain it and do the small amount of fixing up it might still need.

But as has been pointed out in this thread and numerous times elsewhere, most people don't get into this hobby to make money. The enjoyment comes from the restoration process itself, and the difference in what they spend on the car versus what they could sell it for is treated as the cost of participating in the hobby. For most, it's well worth it.

MDchanic

You'll never see it back.

Period.

If that's a problem, this is the wrong hobby for you.

You spend money to get things you enjoy, not as an "investment."
Although there are people who make money buying and selling used cars,
and there are people who make money getting paid to restore cars,
nobody makes money buying beat up cars and restoring them.

The only way you'll make money fixing up an antique car is if you buy one in good shape from the proverbial little old lady for $50, and I wouldn't expect her to be knocking on my door any time soon (though I'm always watching out for her...).

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

I agree with most of what's been said already.
I feel like I ~might~ get all of the $ back I sunk into mine so far, but not the cost of my labor. The labor I do for enjoyment (though it often is torture ). The pride of converting a scuzzy POS into a classy machine that turns heads everywhere is a feeling $ alone cannot buy.

Best thing (as mentioned) is not to go overboard. Start with the important things and do the most you can yourself. Compare prices at all the vendors - there is a HUGE span between some for identical parts.
Try to do all you can yourself, or maybe paying a skilled friend will be better and cheaper than the corner shop.
Try to save all the parts on your car that you can - restore before replace.
Avoid custom, flashy aftermarket parts, as their cost really adds up.

The nice thing is that our old cars are increasing in value, so if you hold on to it long enough, you just might come out ahead in the end (or at least break even.)

442scotty

I agree will all the previous comments....Overspend? Haaa Haa Ha....When you go to buy a car you like and try to figure out what it will cost to get it the way you want it chances are you will be way off...I lost count thousands ago...

You might be alright if you are a body man, a mechanic and have a connection with a parts supplier. But you will still not make any money unless you lucked out on a purchase.

This was the time to buy. In the recession. A lot of very nice cars were sold quite cheap...I would have been a buyer if I didnt own two already.

Olds64

I don't worry too much about overspending. Like the others said you can rarely recover what you put into a car. Just enjoy it.

lshlsh2

Overspending right now but time spent with my son makes it seem cheap.
Larry

redoldsman

For most of us, our cars are a hobby. Think of the guy that plays golf. He spends lots of money and he can't go out in the garage and look it his hobby. Maybe he looks at his best scorecard and I hope that works for him. For some people it is horses and I have been there (you could probably ask Joe P about his wife). They ain't cheap. I have always tried to use some sense in my cars. That is one of the reasons I like drivers. I will never be somebody with a trailer queen. But if that works for you, enjoy. Different strokes for different folks. Most of us are not car dealers, we are Olds lovers.

MX442

You rarely recoup your expenses. I had my 68 442 for 4 years. Sold it for $500 more than I paid for it. I spent $4500 fixing the things the former owner messed up. I finally had it into a great running and driving car and actually got to drive it all summer without turning a wrench. I had to draw the line somewhere. I still wanted to put a stereo and speakers in it, paint the trunk, detail the frame and rear suspension, swap to posi, convert to 4 speed, swap cams... The list goes on. If I kept going, I would have spent another $7k and it would still only be worth the same.

Or I could have bought a BMW M3, and it would have depreciated just as much or more.

It's a hobby.

Now moving on the the other money pit... The W-30.

citcapp

I just enjoy my cars and never look back. That's my kids problem when I die then they will make a profit because they did not put a thing into my cars.

jaunty75

Yes, but they would make MORE of a profit if you just gave them all the money you're now spending on your cars!

442much

Mine wouldn't.

Jamesbo

Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda will get you every time.

I'm with Pat, do what cha want, You earned it.................you should be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Carpe Diem

aliensatemybuick

Yes, I worry about overspending. I have no doubt that if I HAD to sell either (or both) of my current Oldses, I would take a loss. The good news is I have no desire to sell them. And if I am forced to due to circumstances beyond my control (like say losing my job), I'll at least know that they were a big source of fun, and thus worth every penny lost.

Nilsson

Nope and don't care.

This is a hobby and not an investment.

71supreme

It's a hobby, not an investment.

I always thought it was silly when someone sells a car and boasts about how much they have "invested" in it, generally in hopes of justifying their asking price. Who knows where they got the parts, or how much they paid for them, and are they including labor or not? If the car ends up being a heap, is my fault if they are not careful with their time or expenses?

I say just build the car you want/can afford using hobby money, and don't worry about it. When it's time to sell, you will have found money. It's a philosophy that ensures my eternal happiness.

Hakuna Matata

MDchanic

- Eric

Bluevista

Define overspending? Spending more on a resto than the car will ever be worth or paying too much for the car to begin with? You can lose more money on a new car driving it off the lot and pay a lot more.
I paid 12k for my goat and it's worth over 30 and I haven't put more than a couple of thousand into it since I bought it 15 years ago. It all depends how you buy, if I would of bought the Z28 Camaro I was looking at at the same time for a lower price it would of been worth 75-100k now. My Vista I'll be lucky to break even on if I sell it, who cares??
Nobody's going to live forever and as the beer commercial said " You gotta' go for the gusto when you can get it".
Just don't borrow money from the bank, bad enough it all goes into a money pit ,no reason to add interest to it.
With collectibles it's all a matter of time, you'll eventually get your money back, if you live that long.

Jamesbo

Hey,

I know this guy I voted for him for president in 1960

jpc647

Either way. I mean spending more on the car fixing it or buying it outright. But comparing it to a new car isn't the same. A new car gets you to work everyday, back to school, whatever. Therefore you make money from the new car. One doesn't use one of these cars year round to commute with, it would double your expenses of fuel and such and typically aren't as reliable.

I guess I'm just debating what to do. I barely use the car, between school and work, I might take it out 3 times a month during the summer time. Last summer, working 2 jobs, 7 days a week, I think I might have driven it 300 miles. Is that worth the $7,500 I have into the car? I'm starting to feel like not. I could part the car out and get that or more for it. I bought a prefab garage for the car to sit in too, but I could use that if the car is gone, I guess. I don't know, I guess when I bought it it seemed like a good deal as cars in worse shape were selling for thousands more, I suppose I do look at it as an investment, because I don't use it much therefore not enjoying it, so it's really not a hobby for me...

MDchanic

I disagree.
You lose money on a new car every time.
A cheap, used, ten year old car, you make money with.
I bought my pickup truck for $500. I have used it to haul all sorts of stuff thousands of miles over a period of years. I have put a few hundred dollars into it over that time. No matter how I look at it, THAT vehicle has paid for itself. If I had bought a new truck for $30,000, it would be nothing but a loss.

I used my '70 Chevelle SS as my everyday car from 1980 to 1990. It was one of the most reliable cars I ever had.
I drove my '72 Skylark convertible (purchase price $525) across the country and back without a problem.
Gas mileage for both about 18mpg, the same as most SUV's and pickups.

"That much or more" = "That much, if I'm lucky, plus a huge pain in the behind pulling and shipping parts and dealing with up to 100 people by phone and e-mail, most of whom will never buy a thing."

Bingo.

Just sell it and accept the loss. That's what we do when a car is more trouble than fun. Maybe you can sell the portable garage along with it.

A couple of years ago, I picked up a straight, rust-free '68 Galaxie sedan with a 390 and A/C, with 67,000 miles on it. I couldn't pass it up.
I put a total of about $4,000 into that car (don't tell my wife) and had it mechanically very nice, reliable, comfortable, and smooth. Problem was, I'm a GM guy and just didn't like the way it felt to drive.
I wound up selling it to a high school kid for $1,200 because that was all I could get.
That's just the way it goes. I still see him blasting around in it sometimes, and it makes me laugh.

You don't like the car and you aren't going to make any money with it (and it will not stay pristine in a portable garage, so keeping it perfect for 25 years and selling it then isn't an option), so just sell it to someone who will enjoy it.

- Eric

greenslade

sell it and find a hobby that you like,but with that work load I don't know where you would find time for a hobby!

jpc647

Why won't it stay nice in a garage? I didn't say portable, I said prefab. Enclosed is a picture of the garage.







You mentioned some cars you drove back in the 80's, It's a little different now, gas is much more expensive. Every SUV i've been in recently gets 25 ish mpg, and are rated to have 300+hp., ie the Toyota Highlander, and you can walk right into a dealership and get anything you need off the shelf. I don't know about you guys, but if I relied on my 1972 Cutlass for everyday commute, If i needed something It'd have to wait for Fusick to mail it to me or for another supplier to get it to me, what do I call into work for a week while it comes?

Again, I'm just a little confused as to what to do. Part of me would like a new car as I'm sick of constantly working on older cars just be able to get down the street and back, and where Oldsmobile parts are substantially more expensive, it's hard to justify it. Maybe this is childish, but It'd rather burn the damn car and lose everything into it than sell it for a loss, at least that way, no one else would ever be in my situation.

442much

You only lose on a new car if you sell it. Did anyone lose on buying a brand new 1970 442 W30 in 1970? Only if they sold it shortly after. If the person kept it and still has it today, he's made money, (only if he sells it) and if it's still in decent condition.

Willidog

I didn't overspend, just spent everything I had and ran up my Visa but I didn't overspend.

70 cutlass s

Sounds like you have had it with your car. You have two choices, keep it or sell it. If you decide to keep it stop spending money on it for right now until you have the time and money to put into it, or you can sell it and accept the loss.

Buying a new car you will lose your a$$ on it. If your going to buy something newer your better off buying something a few years old. Sometime down the road selling your car you will regret it. Trust me on this, but you need to decide what is best for you. Maybe parking your car for now and buying something newer is what you need to do.

As investment and overspending. I can tell you when I was younger I had several cars that cost me 500-1500. Which most them I raced. If you looked at what I invested into those car then sold them for(gave them away) you would cry. I can't think of any hobby that makes you more money then you invested every time you sell.

firefrost gold

Only when my wife finds out or the visa bill comes I look at as many do its fun I don't Drink, don't smoke and its better than fantasy foot ball.

Lady72nRob71

A newer car has its place, if its in a reasonable price range for your usage. I lost quite a bit on my caddy, as it was too much just to drive around town for less than 9k miles a year. My free hand me down ford was the most mileage for the buck I have ever seen...
I get more positive comments on that old ford than the caddy. In fact, i only got one or two complements on the caddy since I had it. Most new cars have no character - they fit in invisibly with all the others. I find that boring, myself.

A collectable car should not see the risks of everyday driving - thieves, bad drivers, rain, snow, etc. My most costly car is my 72 Olds and i intend to take care of it well to keep the value up (and appreciating.)


So ask yourself, how do I feel when i drive the car? Do I feel like the glowing star of the road? Do I like the attention I get? Do I get positive comments from strangers all over? Do I enjoy these comments? Do I get an adreneline rush when i get out on the highway and open her up? Is she a beauty to my eyes?
If you answer these "yes", then ask if the money you put into her is worth that feeling. To me it is. Heck, I still feel good about yesterday's 200 mile trip to the lake in my '72.
If you answer 'no' to most, then i think maybe it is time to sell.
Bottom line, is the enjoyment worth it...

Maybe the fixing and restoring is a pain, to me it is. But do you like the results when the job is over? Does it then make you smile and just want to go for a drive?

I take my '72 out about 2-3 times a month, depending on weather, time, etc. Sure, she sits there idle a lot, but I still like just looking at her in the garage.
Which btw, I like that prefab garage you got - I wish i had the space for one! That would protect your car and give you space to work.

redoldsman

Again, I'm just a little confused as to what to do. Part of me would like a new car as I'm sick of constantly working on older cars just be able to get down the street and back, and where Oldsmobile parts are substantially more expensive, it's hard to justify it. Maybe this is childish, but It'd rather burn the damn car and lose everything into it than sell it for a loss, at least that way, no one else would ever be in my situation.

Do yourself a favor and get rid of the car. You comments above say it all. Donate it to one of the organizations that helps kids, take the tax deduction and be done with it. You must have tons of money when you talk about burning the car rather than taking a loss. When you even mention burning the car, you are done. Of course you could donate it to one of us on this site. We would be glad to come and get it. There are a lot of great new cars out there. Go get you one and quit being miserable. I am not trying to be a smart azz, I just think this is what you need to do.

Indy_68_S

"Overspending" is a hazard of the game....
It's a hobby.... and like any other hobby it requires spendage that's (usually) not recoverable. The payoff is the enjoyment.

If you do not not have the resources to enjoy it (time and/or money), there's no payoff.

I agree if you're trying to keep an an old/classic car going for strictly daily driver appliance duty, there's not much payoff as the neccessity of keeping it going while watching it degrade kinda offsets the enjoyment. You're better off buying something like a cheap old Corolla or S-10 and driving it while you 'play' with your classic.

(Hobby spendage aside, I intend to mitgate the loss (at least psychologically!) with the idea of "How much would a stylish 300+ HP stick shift drop top cost new ? And what would its depreciation curve look like ?" ! )

In your case, jpc647,I'll agree with...
....since right now you do not have the resources to truly enjoy it...

Taking the loss is hard, but its a fact of life. Your only other alternative is to 'wait it out' until your situation improves...

MDchanic

Sorry, I misunderstood.
That garage will keep the car nice for a while, but, depending on geography, would probably not really preserve during a many-year "investment" period of time.

The cross-country trip in the Slylark was in the '90's, and the car had over 130,000 miles on it. I had to put in a quart of oil with every tank of gas.
Never a problem.

I could go outside right now if I wanted and start up my Chevelle and drive it anywhere. No major changes, modifications, or repairs to the engine since I got it in 1980.

I honestly don't get the "unreliable" part.
I will agree that since the late '90's modern cars have been very reliable, and I have had great experiences with a couple of them, but I have never had reliability issues with my older cars, and, in fact, have found failures in newer cars more likely to strand me, while problems with older cars just slow me down long enough make a temporary repair and then continue on.

If your car is unreliable, then you're doing something wrong.

Look, if you're in a position where the difference between 18 and 25mpg makes a hole in your budget, then you're definitely in the wrong hobby, or at least collecting the wrong cars. An Opel GT or a VW beetle will get over 30mpg easy. If not, then you just made that statement for no reason, or, rather for an unrelated reason, which, I suspect, is to help to convince yourself that you do not want this car.

And, yes, it sounds like you want a nice, new Toyota Highlander with 300hp, 25mpg, heated seats, electric mirrors, and a DVD player.

Fine. So go get one.

That hasn't been my experience with Japanese parts.
Maybe things have changed.

I can't imagine a necessary mechanical part for one of these cars that you couldn't get down at the corner auto parts store, and usually found in stock.
Belts? Hoses? Water pump? Cap, rotor, points, condenser, coil? Ball joints, tie rod ends? Gasket sets? Wheel bearings? All available right down the street.
I'm serious here, what has broken on you, disabling the car, that you've had to wait for?

I think you're not confused at all.

As I said, if you're "constantly working" on them and they still don't work, you're doing something wrong.

It's a hobby. For fun. You can't "justify" it.
You're not having fun. Game over

Definitely.

Put an ad in the paper and sell it now.

- Eric

Indy_68_S

^^This ^^

(Although, in this hobby, with these cars, I'd say ~12 & 25 mpg!)

jpc647

You don't consider having to dump a quart of oil into a car every tank of gas(ie what 300 miles) a problem!?


Not really. I'm not a huge foreign car person, its just a though. I mean it just makes me wonder why I waste time on THIS old car.

It took me almost a month two summers ago to get the wrong water pump. I have a stock Non AC 1972 Cutlass "S". The water pump length was just over 5 inches, like 5.15 inches(something close to that, the decimals are slightly off, but it was just over 5 inches). Under no parts listing could this be found under description for a 1972 Cutlass. Something was screwed up in the aftermarket, the AC delco numbers you can look up, are wrong. I was lucky enough the one on the car had numbers on it that some company could decipher. I ended up finally getting the right one that came from an application for something like 63 Delmont or something like that. Other people have had this problem and posted about it. That is absolutely ridiculous, even year one, fusick, and those companies didn't have the applications right.

Its more or less a lot of little things that it's hard to motivate myself on a car that is "practically useless".

greenslade

store the olds in the garage for the winter,and get a newer vehicle,forget about it for a while.

Rocket Richard

Fuel economy? Yeah, it's not so good, but I have a REAL car with class and power.

Spend too much? Hmm well I'd probably say that I don't worry about it, I just spend. But my goal is to have an OK car that is reliable, doesn't have to be super nice and I try to make sensible purchases with that goal in mind.

You know, I've gotten a bunch of complements just from people seeing my car parked in the back yard... trust me it is not in showroom condition. But it feels good, I'm proud to have this car.

Funny thing is the car I had before was a 78 VW beetle convertible. It got tons of compliments, was very reliable, easy to get parts if I needed, and great on gas. But I had gotten tired of VW's over the years, lost the feeling of enthusiasm. I sold that car and definately I had spent more on it than my selling price, but I expect all cars are like that. They aren't like diamonds or bricks of gold.

Rocket Richard

After some afterthought, I just thought I should say that with a car as old as yours you should just follow your heart and not your wallet. You should have some passion for the car and if fixing it only leaves a bad taste in your mouth then it sounds no good for you.

Life is too short to do this to yourself. I say just sell it and find something that makes you happy.

442much

Hey RR. Does your screen name have anything to do with you owning a Rocket and your name being Richard....or the player who led the Canadiens to five straight Stanley Cups?

firefrost gold

Thants the only thing straight about those canadiens