stevengerard

Look at this, a Cutlass Pace Car labeled as a 442 with a special order COPO engine - either very cool and very rare or is this BS

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...2/1037708.html

VikingBlue

I call Shenanigans: a 455 and 4 speed swapped into this Cutlass, which may well might have been an original pace car.

wmachine

It is 1 of none.

jensenracing77

lol..:d

rocketraider

COPO was a Chevrolet thing. Sounds like someone ignorant of non-Chevrolet GM is trying to capitalize on it.

Also- where did it say anything about a 455? Every 1970 Cutlass Pace Car replica I've seen was a 350 car.

I wanna see Y74 on the data plate too. Sorry to be so cynical but I see too much outright BS on muscle era cars, and an auction listing is ALWAYS suspect. The auction house will disclaim by saying they publish the info they were given.

wmachine

Being cynical is nothing to apologize for, because when it comes to on-line claims, it seems to run about 90%+ BS. The odds are on your side.
In this case the way the ad is worded with COPO references and all is what sets off the BS meter.

LI Olds

sure Meecum researches these sort of things

compedgemarine

if it is a 4 speed why does it have a transmission cooler? as far as I know the factory (any factory) never made production 4 speeds with pumps and coolers.
steve

jensenracing77

great point. i missed that one.

wmachine

I take that comment as tongue and cheek, but it should be understood that all the auction houses are not responsible for the content of the car descriptions. Period. They print and post what they are told. The are not, and can not be expected to validate all the information they are given. Think about it. Even if they wanted to, it would be impossible. Sure, they take advantage of the situation to capitalize (literally) themselves on bogus claims, but that is just the way it is and the consumer needs to understand who's responsibility it is to validate the info. (It is the consumer's responsibility, of course).
No different than an ad in the paper or on Craigslist or Ebay.
"caveat emptor".

agtw31

all those auctions are just rich guys hiding money.

you cant take what they pay for those cars seriously.

VikingBlue

W - Has there ever been a lawsuit ? I would think that simply by advertising and auctioning off a misrepresented car creates liability for them, especiallysince they profit more by the exaggerated claim. I would think they need to do some due diligence (fact checking, have experts, etc.) to validate cars if they want to avoid liability. I don't think their disclaimers hold water.

wolfman98

I think legally that the disclaimer does hold water , just as the statement that a used car is sold " as is ". It just has to be clearly stated and when it comes to used cars it is the buyers responsibility to check it out. Any misrepresentation would be that of the original owner/seller and not the auction house so you would have to take issue with the person who misrepresented the car in the first place , then you need to prove it was deliberate and done to inflate the price of the car. And if you were unfortunate enough to purchase it you have to prove what your damages are.
In some cases I am sure that the seller actually believes it is what says it is because that's what he was told when he bought it. Like they say BUYER BEWARE.

wmachine

Not only do their disclaimers hold water, it is the basis of their lack of liability. From the autioneers standpoint, the cars are sold "as is, where is". There is no due diligence needed. Realistically they can't do it! How can they? They are no more liable than a newspaper is for ad that is placed.
What you say "makes sense", but we're talking about what is legal, not what makes sense.

wmachine

Exactly!

mmurphy77

I sold my '71 Chevelle SS454 last month and the buyer tried 'flipping' it at a big auction here and TOTALLY misrepresented the car in the description. I sold it for 'clone' money because it had NO documentation and there was not a single original part on the car (a real Frankenstein car - '72 motor, '68 trans, '69 rear, etc.). His description said it was a high dollar rotisserie restoration w/ tons of money spent, original this, original that. I had a laminated novelty window sticker I bought online for $25 that he claimed was the original window sticker! He can do what he wants with the car but misrepresenting it was low. I just hope the bidders weren't fooled. I don't know what it sold for but someone at the auction told me the Chevelles weren't doing well that day. Karma maybe?

stevengerard

And I am not really harping on Mecum or BJ or any of the other auction houses - the market is the market ans this is what happens. They wouldn't be around if they were responsible to back up all the claims sellers try to make. I am just really pointing out how misspoken so many people are about the cars. I know I continue to learn about minor details of these cars everyday. Yet when someone calls a Cutlass Pace car a 442 or says the 70 442 has a 442 cubic inch engine in it, I just cringe. It just makes me wonder why these folks owned the car in the first place. There are so many of us who appreciate them for what they are and then you get people who don't even know the basics trying to flip them - with the information one can get form the internet today I think that is inexcusable.

VikingBlue

well, I do wonder if there's been a lawsuit. Would an art dealer be liable for claiming a painting on consignment is a Van Gogh when it's later proved it's not ? I would think so. Damages are easy to show....considerable overpayment due to fraud.

I once bought a car from a lawyer without seeing it first (yeah, yeah, I know). Upon receiving it, it was found to be misrepresented. He is a lawyer AND a car collector. He knows trhe deal....I contacted the FBI (interstate commerce issue) and my own lawyer. He gave me my money back faster than you could blink

1969w3155

You trusted a Lawyer

wmachine

Okay, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the legal position of an auction house.

aliensatemybuick

Just to satisfy my curiosity, what state was this liar, 'scuse me lawyer from?

Diego

I would like to see the listing of the auction. If you are able to show that a car is not as represented, I am happy to promote that idea to people in the Chevy world.

I guess I just have to believe you, though.

442much

The guy selling is an idiot. He took a none of none and made one....now it's not as rare as it use to be.

wmachine

:d:d

71 Cutlass

One of none...where have I heard that before.....

VikingBlue

Aliens...the one 'term' I agreed to in order to get my money back immediately was to never 'expose' him or the car as being phony....so I will not say what state he's in...but you're in NJ, right ? So am I. He's not from NJ.