gearheads78

http://blogs.popularhotrodding.com/6...***/index.html

Looks like PHR is building Pro-Touring 65.

joe_padavano

And what are the odds that a Chebby motor will end up in the engine bay?

Oldsguy

Joe, I would say 95-99%.

jims2000lt

Probably wind up putting an Ls based motor in it. Hooray!

gearheads78

Even if they were doing a corporate LS who cares at least they are building an Olds. FYI for you cup is half empty people they are keeping an Olds motor in it from what I am hearing.

Aron Nance

Richard: Did you note in the text all the folks the guy is thanking? Baer brakes/suspension folks/etc.? Does that mean that he gets his parts F-R-E-E? Be interesting to see if he actually does the work, as you do. I like yours better.
Aron

The Stickman

Actually I am pretty positive they will have an Olds engine in it. And does this mean me and Gearhead are leading the way in this new trend?

agtw31

pro touring has been around for over 35 years in the west coast,hot rod featured a 64 GTO back in the 70's that had a race suspension,would race the mulholland drive hills in it and eat Ferraris alive

i believe brian trick provided the 455 core for this car


http://www.highperformanceolds.com/p...hp?f=22&t=1394

The Stickman

Ah back then They called them Canyon or cafe racers

Olds64

Interesting

joe_padavano

Would that have been the Ken Crocie GTO with the original B-body spindle swap, that allegedly pulled over 1.0 G on the skidpad?

agtw31

that's it,joe

t bell

I'm finally excited about this build. Probably more excited than the Jeff Schwartz Cutlass. Only time will tell.

WTony

I did almost all the same stuff to my wagon. The big spindles, big brakes, Global West negitive roll upper control arms, quick ratio box, 17" billet specialty wheels, Nito tires, lowered it and used the 1 3/8 HO sway bars mentioned in the Hot Rod mag "knuckle sandwich" article back in the 90's.

Actually I did a ton more than this but I dont want to boar you to much.

agtw31

wagon looks awesome ,tony

citcapp

Not boring, you just got started, now tell us the rest of build details

68conv455

X3 on the wagon.
Is that a Jersey plate?

jslabotsky

If it weren't an Olds it would be a total yawn to me. IMO they are just trying to wring a few more miles out of the pro touring trend. Any dill weed can throw a pile of money and/or sponsor donated parts at a project and make it cool. I'd rather see a build by one guy in his garage, using mostly swap meet and Craigslist parts, plus a healthy dose of ingenuity.

Guess that's what discussion forums are for.

t bell

Well 1st, the pro-touring "trend" is more of a movement. More people are actually enjoying their cars by driving them. I for one actually can't wait for the day that I be able to keep up with a new sports car at the stoplight and the twisties.

jslabotsky

LOL.. Oh, excuse me, it's a "movement" now. A social uprising. I had no idea.

Take a step back and read it again. I was talking about magazine builds, not people who actually build their own cars. I think pro touring cars are great, especially the ones with all the creature comforts (A/C, etc.) of modern cars that aren't just tarted up track cars with no-frills interior and loud exhaust. (The "track" being a road course in this context, not 1/4 mile.)

My point is simply that I'm not turned on by a magazine build where they just bolt on a crapload of expensive parts that most of us can't afford. Maybe PHR will go a different way with this one, but that seems to be standard operating procedure in the mags and on TV. There are other, more clever, more interesting ways to put something like that together. Richard's car is a prime example.

wolfman98

The thing I hate about those shows is that most of the parts are donated by the manufacturer for some free advertising. And they always have the best tools to work with and a great shop and usually someone else there to do the work when the camera is not rolling. i would love to be able to upgrade the suspension and brakes plus a few other little things but no manufacturer wants to give me the parts even though I said I would put in a good word for them

WTony

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the complements for all my hard work.

It was a back yard build that started out as a $1200 California car. The spindles/disks ect came from my uncle's junk yard, along with the driveshaft and some other pieces.
A GOOD, no, REALLY GOOD friend and I spent 15 Friday nights and Saturdays stripping, fixing dents and then getting the car painted at the shop I work at.
The rebuilt 455, new Currie 9", sway bars and auto console came from an unfinished project car I bought. The guy just "lost interest".
I used Sphon performance solid rear upper and lower control arms with polly bushings to stiffin up the rear of the car as well.
I paid real money for the 4L65E trans though. Its probably the only big dollars Iv spent on the entire build.
I still have more to do. You'll probably think Im crazy, but I may even repaint the entire car this winter after I install the 70 OAI hood. There's a few inperfections that bother me.
Here's just a few before, during and after photo's.

WTony

Forgot to mention the bucket seats from Englishtown swap meet.
Also the Vintage Air that I installed using the original pulleys, brackets and stock AC compressor.

gearheads78

Nice work!! It looks great

WTony

Thanks Richard. I almost put the new Richmond gear 5 speed in the car that you almost bought from me about 2 years ago. Thats why I bought the 69 stick console from you this past spring. It didnt happen though, went with the overdrive auto so the wife can still drive it. Thats why the 5 speed set up is for sale.

t bell

Hmm, I guess I did need to reread your post. I agree with your 2nd post 100%.

The Stickman

You should check out my Pro-Touring wagon. All built in my garage. Uses a $400 ebay, G-0body rear springs in a B-body and a bunch of other things that are far from a high dollar build. It will handle with the best of them.

Mingus

Awesome wagons guys. PHR says they are going to do a 455 for their '65. Remains to be seen though. I will guarantee they won't be paying for it. That's one of the things that drives me nuts about magazines. They keep running articles about "low buck" engines that cost $8-9k! Same thing with all of the other mods they do. That's pretty big buck in my book. I still like PHR about the best, because they still have at least some cars built by real people with real world type of budgets.

Aceshigh

I already put an LS based engine in my 78 Camaro and I've been strongly considering a
Gen IV LY6 drivetrain for my 442 wannabe. Lets be real about one thing guys......Olds
engines don't breath very good. So making big HP #'s isn't realistic without alot of money
invested. Mondello thinks he has gold for sale too.

450lbs LS motor VS a 685lbs BBO 455 isn't hard to decide between either IMO.
The L92 heads on any Gen IV motor outflow most aftermarket heads too.
Cam and springs swap and you're getting 500hp out of them. (LQ4, LQ9, LY6)

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...arts_list.html

Lets face it , for Olds guys to go modern.....Olds died years ago.

Oldsguy

No, you just need torque.
I agree

That's all probably true but to most of us here being excited about Oldsmobile includes the engines too. Besides you are comparing engines that represent two totally different generations in engine technology. If you replace the engine, the chassis, the suspension, the drive train, the brakes, etc. The only thing you have left is the body and the interior. Does the car lose it's identity then?

Only if you believe it.

Jon442

I like to read about the high-buck buildups that magazines do, even if just to see what's available, and to dream a little bit. But I appreciate the backyard buildups more, because I know they're done by real people with real cars. I guess that's maybe why I'm a fan of rat rods, because a true rat rod emphasizes mechanicals over beauty.

Stickman is a great example. His car may not be a beauty queen (even though I love suede), but he's built it up under the skin to do what he wants to do, and he's done it with his own skills and a limited budget. That's the true essence of hot rodding.

Mingus

Hey All,
I actually kind of hope the pro touring “movement” doesn’t really catch on with Oldsmobiles. I kind of like Richard and I being really unique.
There is another guy on the pro touring site that has a 68 with an EFI 455 and a 5 speed, but that's about it.
As for the question Dan posed, I don’t think you lose the identity of a car by changing drivetrain or suspension parts as long as the body is intact. To me cars that lost their “brand” identity were a lot of the 50’s customs. By the time they were nosed, decked, chopped and got Buick side trim and Chevy grills, most of the Mercs (I know there were all makes done like that but they were the most popular) were almost unrecognizable. Of course, there’s so many of them around that a “regular” 50 Mercury looks strange to me.
Here's a shot of Al Kvarme's 50 Olds. Full tube chassis, full on race car, and if memory serves correct, a 632" DRCE engine. All stock bumpers, trim, emblems and licensed. I would condiser it an Olds, and probably the baddest one I've ever seen.
Also, concerning the DRCE engine, when does it lose it's identity? It may say "Olds" on the outside, but they used all Chevy internals.
Just my $0.02.

Aceshigh

One definite thing I give Olds engines though is MONSTER torque.
That's why my 2.78 rearend was probably put in, to keep the rear end
from blowing up with all that torque the 455's made at low rpms.

Torque really pulls the car out of the dig, but beyond that.....they get
exhausted quick without alot of work to change that. Even ported BBO
C heads for 455's don't flow as much as a modern L92 small block head stock out of the box.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...flow-data.html

I still can appreciate a built and ported Olds 455 though, no doubt.
Just depends on your goals. Mine isn't drag racing.....so that's where the BBO shines the most IMO.

Actually 4 generations. LY6 is a gen IV motor.
But I know what you're saying.

Only to a Purist.
I just saw a guy locally in a PHR magazine that did a 455 LSX pro touring 442.
IT was SIIIIIIICK!!!!! (not a fan of the rim selection myself tho)

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...lass/hood.html

For me, the identity is strictly the body. That's it. Everything else can be upgraded/modernized.

Mingus

I have to include Stickman along with gearheads78 and I as part of the Olds pro touring "movement".
Love the car Aceshigh.
I keep leaning toward an LS engine in my Cutlass. I absolutely wanted to do a 455 before I got the suspension done. Now it's amazing how much lighter the car feels. It's better even driving 30 around town, and it's awesome on the highway. If I lose another 100+ lb off of the front compared to my Olds 350 I have now, it should make a huge difference. This isn't from any desire to road race it, or even get that wild on the street. Just to have a really fun driver.
I want to keep an Oldsmobile engine in it, but I'm not sure it's the best fit for what I'm trying to achieve. I toyed with the idea of an "updated" turbo 215 with EFI or an Aurora engine. The problem with them is there is no support to build or transplant them. A stock LS2 will make about the same (or more) power and there are swap kits that will let me bolt one right in. I thought about a GN engine too, but I'd rather keep a V8.

The Stickman

Thanx for that. I am going to be keeping the Olds for my Pro-Touring car simply because it is different. But I plan on doing EFI with it. I have the MegaSquirt ECU and a billet throttlebody already just need to get the intake done. Now And Aurora would be cool esspecially with individual TB's but again not a common swap. The LS is lighter and easy to get great power from with alot of support behind it. But I think there are 2 options for Olds egines that simply are tried enough. Turbo and Supercharging. Both could be done cheaply. I have been looking at both. A Paxton ot Procharger can be found pretty cheap used. The hard parts would be fitting it to the engine and adapting pulley's. I have been looking at ways to do a serpentine setup to make that easier. But I think the easier choice would be twin turbo's, esspecially for those of use with the bigger cars. Make a simple log type manifold and get 2 cheap turbos, mount a filter under them down in the fender, run the pipe out of the turbo down to an intercooler behind and under the bumper. Both side could enter the intercooler from the sides and exit at the center with the pipe coming up behind the radiator and straight into the throttlebody. This way too the Olds tendancy for lower compression becomes a benefit rather than a detriment. It also takes the Olds flow problems out of the equation.