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Gaskets and Sealants and install of Edelbrock 2711
I am 67 and old school, but I am willing to admit there are gasket materials and sealants that are far superior to the ones used in 1968, the year of my engine, and the time when I was taking Autoshop in High School. I have a full set of Fel-pro gaskets which are by the way about 200% more expensive as 1968, but I accept inflation and the American wage worker. So my question comes down to a few simple questions; If any, which sealants to use on the following? I have silicone gasket materials in a rainbow of colors, Black, blue, orange, gray, and I still have the Indian gasket shellac stuff with the little round brush. I want no leaks and no drips, and I want no mixing of fluids inside the engine, and no smoke boiling out of anywhere.
Head gasket
Intake gasket
Oil pump gasket,
Oil pan gasket
Water pump gasket.
Valve Cover gaskets
Thermostat gasket
I also have some question about installing the Edelbrock 2711 on my W-31 wannabe. I've been reading about trays and so forth and I am wondering if I am misreading it, or if I am overthinking it. My engine upon disassembly had a stamped steel tray held on by two little nuts under the cast iron intake manifold. I assume it was to catch and slow the flow of oil back to the sump, but is this the tray some talk about not using, or is it the type of intake gasket? I have the fel-pro one piece one stamped steel with the rubber end pieces, and I am ready to use the Indian Head Gasket Shellac, but I am not sure whether I want the tray in or not based on some. I installed the HV oil pump in spite of someone telling me that while cruising at highway speeds it will pump the sump dry. Anyone ever heard of an Olds running out of oil with only a 20% increase in volume? He talked about filling up the valve covers. WHAT? I figure I was hearing from a SBC guy. I have never done a rebuild w/o the HV oil pump and I have never heard this theory before this. If it ever really happened, my suspicion would be plugged oil channels not more volume. I have built two 350s, a 425 and 455 and to my knowledge all four are still pumping after 20+ years!
The fun parts are in sight. Engine swap and all the little dammits to get it started and breaking in. So many deatails, so little time!
Maybe I'm just old school or doing it wrong, but this is what I do.
Head gasket - No sealant
Intake gasket - Ditch the turkey tray and use Blue RTV around the coolant crossovers and Permatex Right Stuff for the end rails.
Oil pump gasket - No sealant
Oil pan gasket - Blue RTV
Water pump gasket - Blue RTV
Valve Cover gaskets - Blue RTV
Thermostat gasket - Blue RTV
Thank you! We agree on all of them! I asked about the "Turkey Tray" in a separate question, so you answered 2 in one. So do I keep the stamped steel tray bolted into the valley then?
There is a tray that covers the lifters and is secured by 2 small bolts. This needs to be retained.
The "turkey tray" is the OE stamped steel intake manifold gasket. It includes a stamped steel tray that covers the bottom side of the intake manifold. This tray is part of stamped steel gasket surfaces that seal the intake manifold to the head. I've never been successful using one of these. Instead, I buy fiber gaskets that seal the intake manifold to the heads. They come with nitrile/rubber end rails. The end rails are prone to blowing out. I use the Right Stuff gasket maker to replace the nitrile/rubber end rails.
I suppose black/red RTV are just as good to use as blue, but it seems that blue is a good all purpose sealant. On our cars we don't have to worry about O2 sensors (unless you are running EFI).
That clears things up. Of course the heads were machined, so is the mating surfaces angles a concern? At what point do take a new intake to a machine shop? As far as I can tell the engine has only been rebuilt this one time. OEM parts were everywhere and the machining was minimal.
The purpose of the stamped steel tray in the lifter valley is to prevent hot oil from splashing on the bottom of the intake. It’s not needed if you use the “turkey tray” gasket. I prefer the thicker intake gaskets, I think they are more forgiving if the head, intake, etc machined surfaces aren’t exactly correct. Milling the heads, decking the block, intake machining tolerances can all stack up and prevent a perfect seal.
I dont think the the high volume pump is needed on the small block. The main bearings are much smaller than the big block engines. If you do use the high volume, a oil pan with additional oil capacity is probably a good idea. Use oil restricted pushrods, that will help keep the oil out of the valve covers.
I use RTV sealer anyplace multiple sealing surfaces come together. Places like the corner of the intake (where the block, heads, and intake meet) the oil pan corners ( timing cover, oil pan, and block) where the two half of the rear main seal meet (don’t use a rope seal, a neoprene seal is a better choice, I can’t remember the part number) and around the coolant ports on the head. The Indian shellac works well on the freeze plugs.
Realize this, if your heads have been milled, the only intake gaskets that will fit is the Turkey tray or shim gaskets. The other issue is not so straight Edelbrock intakes out of box. I could not fit a 3711 Performer intake on a stock untouched 76 Olds 350 with Mr Gasket composite intake gaskets. No way they would with either set of #6 heads, one cut to 64cc and another to 55cc with the intake surface cut. You can use these with your bolt in tray. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ms99471/ As said, ditch the end seals, use a tall, like 3 layer high, not too wide bead of Ultrablack RTV and use Ultrablack RTV around both sides of the four corner water ports.
It may be because my Performer is anything but straight. With 3 sets of heads on an unmilled block nothing but shim gaskets would work. I will able to use SCE composite gaskets with my Performer RPM on a 403 with .040" head gaskets and no milling. It may just be the intake. He should be prepared to have the intake cut if using thick gaskets.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; May 17th, 2019 at 09:32 AM.
RTV Silicone can be used instead of a gasket. It should never be used "on" a gasket, except for where two gaskets, or a gasket and a rubber seal come together.
If you're installing gaskets, use GASKET SEALER, not GASKET ELIMINATOR.
There's a dozen brands of gasket sealers. I have personal experience with High Tack, Gasgacinch, Hylomar, Copper Coat, and several others. They all do a fine job. My first choice is Gasgacinch. Sticks well, clean-up is easy. Gasket can sometimes be re-used with a fresh coat of Gasgacinch. Dries clear--no hateful blue or red or black mess squeezing out between the parts. Gasgacinch does almost everything that Hylomar does, at 1/10 the cost (or less). There's some High Tack in the shop right now. Works good. Easier to find locally than Gasgacinch.
May 15th, 2019, 11:22 AM
and the machining was minimal.
Thanks for all the good info
