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Are classic car dealers ruining the market for buyers?
Seems like the amount of classic car dealers or showrooms has blew up over the last year or two. And with them the prices. But it seems like they dont move much inventory. I'm looking for a pretty specific car and have followed the market pretty well for the last year but the prices have made a big jump with no sales to back it. Maybe I'm just being a cheap skate. What do you guys think?
Without reading anything more than your post title, my answer is a definitive h$!! yes. These cars were junkyard fodder before the "classic craze" began.
I agree. I've seen specific cars I like on E-bay. Some have been on there for a long time. The recent incorrect W-30 that sold for $137,000 may cause other cars to be overpriced. Another sad thing is people are afraid to drive their "Rare" cars such as Boss 429's, GSX or anything Hemi. So they sit in garages like stocks and bonds. I hope you find a bargain, good luck.
I'm not looking for the steal of the decade I just can't give nearly double this year over last with no sales history. I made a solid above market value on a car last month that got denied because the owner felt their car was priced in line with others. Others that have been sitting in a showroom for sale for months now. Just frustrating I guess.
I'm from Austria and I was searching for more than a year for a 1973 Chevy Nova or Olds Omega.
I can confirm that as well. If you are outside from the US, than they could be of good help for shipping ans so on. but the price-tag they put on for all this is outrageous.
So I stopped searching with car dealers and did it myself with craigslist - which unfortunately became also a challenge! craigslist does block non US residents to get in contact with the seller. but there a some fellow forum member's which help in this situation.
Simple economics, the prices are what the market will bear.
Collector cars, and just about anything that has a similar following, go through cycles of prices going up and diving again.
However there will only be fewer cars available as time takes its toll, so the cars left will become more valuable as rarity becomes a factor.
Simple economics, the prices are what the market will bear.
Collector cars, and just about anything that has a similar following, go through cycles of prices going up and diving again.
However there will only be fewer cars available as time takes its toll, so the cars left will become more valuable as rarity becomes a factor.
Roger.
Or until we all pass on and nobody wants our cars anymore and then their worth declines much like the model A's and such of the 30s and 40s
Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. This is a perfect example here. These cars have been for sale for months a couple of them almost a year now. The one in Dallas was offered as an auction but only got to $16,301 reserve not met, half what they're asking. That should be a clear sign along with sales history that they're overpriced.
Auctions like Barrett-Jackson, Mecum, etc. and "Classic Car dealers" give "average Joe's" an inflated value of their cars. This can translate also to prices of parts. Visions of huge profits is another factor. Prices also rise and wane with the economy. If we are to blame only one group, it would be the "buyers" because they paid a bizarre price.
JMO but the Rallye 350 is a unique bird due to the fact of the color options........there are none so you better like yellow and black. I still like them but it definitely limits the market for that car.
A guy that I know, sold his '68 SS396 Camaro clone with a 454 stroker, to a dealer last year for $35k, they had it advertised @ $59k. Ridiculous. Ebay seems to have more dealers than regular folk selling their cars. All overpriced.
A guy that I know, sold his '68 SS396 Camaro clone with a 454 stroker, to a dealer last year for $35k, they had it advertised @ $59k. Ridiculous. Ebay seems to have more dealers than regular folk selling their cars. All overpriced.
The dealer would have never bought it if they didn't think there was a way to turn it for a profit. As far as asking price goes, its just that, you have to start somewhere. As time goes by if the car does not sell, the price keeps going lower until it does.
I’ve been looking at classic cars off and on . Yes the market has made the prices go up....for now. I check Craigslist now and again. I started out looking at Rallye 350s first. Passed on 1 because I thought he was asking too much. He wanted 26k . The other person had a nice one but wanted 16k with a non original drive train. Finally found mine on CL for a lot less(12k) in very nice shape . That was 3 years ago . Prices have gone up since then. I’m just glad I’m not buying, but there are still deals around if you look and are patient.
Several times I've seen a car sell on an popular on-line auction site. A week later, it shows up again from a dealer with a $20K mark-up.
Now I check the box for private sellers in an attempt to shrink the field. Sometimes dealer listings still show up.
One significant recession and most of the cars will end back up in private hands, and the cycle will start again.
What you need to do is look at the completed listings on Ebay, the ones in green, that is an average market value on ebay. Again an asking price is not market value.
What you need to do is look at the completed listings on Ebay, the ones in green, that is an average market value on ebay. Again an asking price is not market value.
I have and follow bring a trailer.com also. the highest sale was a 4 SPD rallye on bat that sold for $19,400 then a couple months later the car sold on Ebay for $16,500
The dealer would have never bought it if they didn't think there was a way to turn it for a profit. As far as asking price goes, its just that, you have to start somewhere. As time goes by if the car does not sell, the price keeps going lower until it does.
You are right, but they are flippers and drive the market up. The markup is ridiculous on so many of them.
Dealers suck so much. I've got no issue with a little profit, but there is no reason to buy a car for X, have it on your lot for a week, then sell it for 2X. You moved a car and parked it....how is that worth 20 grand?
I don't think we need government regulation; but I wish they'd be decent.
I learned a lot in 2018 shopping for my 68 442. I looked at classic car dealers first and later came to realize that they inflate the price as a consignor to $10k over what the private seller wants. And every dealer lies through their teeth about what’s wrong with the car or they just say they know very little about the car. They get away with this because one dealer told me that 95% of his sales are through the internet and often to Europe. So they sell these cars sight unseen. In the year since I eventually found my car, I’ve kept an eye on the 4 cars I was seriously considering and three are still for sale but the price has crept down but only a little.
Private sellers direct are the way to go. They are more appropriately priced, and you’ll get much more honestly from the seller,
I recommend to look at classic car dealers, private, and eBay and make a long list. Then watch them and see what goes and what doesn’t. Familiarize yourself with the overall market and then you’ll know what the cars are really worth.
If you must buy a car sight unseen, use an unbiased car inspection service like “Road Ready” they saved me from making bad purchases twice.
And yes it’s obvious that the TV car auctions are priced unreasonably. Its just people with too much money being hypnotized by a shiner paint job. I just had a long time friend that I haven’t seen since I got active in this, who is a life long classic car collector tell me how much his cars are worth based on these TV auctions. I respect his knowledge and couldn’t even politely tell him how out of touch he is. If he gets around to trying to sell one of his cars, he’ll be disappointed but will have to come back to reality. —Billy
I learned a lot in 2018 shopping for my 68 442. I looked at classic car dealers first and later came to realize that they inflate the price as a consignor to $10k over what the private seller wants. And every dealer lies through their teeth about what’s wrong with the car or they just say they know very little about the car. They get away with this because one dealer told me that 95% of his sales are through the internet and often to Europe. So they sell these cars sight unseen. In the year since I eventually found my car, I’ve kept an eye on the 4 cars I was seriously considering and three are still for sale but the price has crept down but only a little.
Private sellers direct are the way to go. They are more appropriately priced, and you’ll get much more honestly from the seller,
I recommend to look at classic car dealers, private, and eBay and make a long list. Then watch them and see what goes and what doesn’t. Familiarize yourself with the overall market and then you’ll know what the cars are really worth.
If you must buy a car sight unseen, use an unbiased car inspection service like “Road Ready” they saved me from making bad purchases twice.
And yes it’s obvious that the TV car auctions are priced unreasonably. Its just people with too much money being hypnotized by a shiner paint job. I just had a long time friend that I haven’t seen since I got active in this, who is a life long classic car collector tell me how much his cars are worth based on these TV auctions. I respect his knowledge and couldn’t even politely tell him how out of touch he is. If he gets around to trying to sell one of his cars, he’ll be disappointed but will have to come back to reality. —Billy
Very well put Billy. I have been following sales for about a year now and have a feel for what the market is one them. I just hate to see these cars sitting in a showroom forever just because some dealer told someone they could get them so dreamed up price. I'll find the car I want at a price i feel good about giving someday. Until then I'll just laugh at the huge price tags.
I kept this at my desk when I was a scum sucking used car salesman. While it may not be yesterday, the point is that your not the only one looking at a particular car because there is an a$$ for every seat.
On a side note, why is it that car dealers are the only ones people complain about? Look at everything you buy from nuts and bolts (which can be marked up over 10x cost, to furniture (3x), food (from less than 1x to many times), electronics (large percentage), cloths, etc... and say here, just take my money.
This dealer is local to me. Nice place with 4 buildings that recently expanded. They've been in business 25 years and seem to do quite well. I thought this 61 Dynamic 88 was a little overpriced though. https://fastlanecars.com/vehicles/20...88-convertible
Imo, both are priced to high. 4 doors are a hard sell. 1961 Dynamic convertibles are rare and will sell fast, if priced right. The market for full sized is limited. Someone with 40K has a lot of choices.
Dealer prices are often ridiculously high, especially when you zero in on the photos and see a lot of lipstick on the pig. Sometimes though there are real gems that may justify the high price. Dealers are not the whole problem though, most consignment setups take what the seller wants and add a markup and often what the seller wants is crazy high - that is the BJ Mecum factor. What amazes me is that some dealers are willing to sit on these overpriced pigs for a long time which has to hurt their overhead.
Dealers suck so much. I've got no issue with a little profit, but there is no reason to buy a car for X, have it on your lot for a week, then sell it for 2X. You moved a car and parked it....how is that worth 20 grand?
I don't think we need government regulation; but I wish they'd be decent.
Any valid reason a business run for profit shouldn't maximise its return on investment?. A car dealers lot is a business, as is a bank, a supermarket, or a diner. Marking a car up 20k isn't wrong unless the car is misrepresented.
Any valid reason a business run for profit shouldn't maximise its return on investment?. A car dealers lot is a business, as is a bank, a supermarket, or a diner. Marking a car up 20k isn't wrong unless the car is misrepresented.
Roger.
Which from what I've seen in most of the ads lately, they are exactly that. I swear they dont even look at the cars when they write descriptions.
75% of the engine freshly painted because it was done in place
Liberal use of ArmorAll in the engine bay
Liberal use of ArmorAll in the interior
Silver painted exhaust pipe and muffler
Flat black spray can painted underside
Brand new trunk mat so you can't see the trunk floor
Tire shine
Vacuum lines in the carpet
Aftermarket wheels that turn it into a resto-mod
Liquid spray-on wax
I also love:
No visible rust, or I can't find any rust
Frame off restoration (even if it is a unibody)
Any valid reason a business run for profit shouldn't maximise its return on investment?. A car dealers lot is a business, as is a bank, a supermarket, or a diner. Marking a car up 20k isn't wrong unless the car is misrepresented.
Roger.
I'm not sure common decency is a valid reason anymore, but, other than that, you'll get more business with a non-gouging price model.
I don't understand why people bitch and complain about this all the time. Seller has a right to ask for what ever they want, and buyer has a right not to buy if they don't like it. Stop buying and price will drop.
These cars are getting harder to find, they don't make them anymore, they are getting more popular and prices reflect that. This is the way capitalism works, demand drives the prices not sellers, it's a free market.
Not only that, but prices of everything have been driven up due to inflation. Gallon of milk cost 2x as much as it did few years ago, have you guys checked the prices of new cars?? I paid around $35K cash for my 2000 GMC Sierra fully loaded with all bells and whistles that dealer could offer, same car would be $70K today. I know a lot of you remember 1985 when you could buy one of these classic cars for $500.....FYI that was 34 years ago (damn I'm getting old).
I would never buy a classic from a car dealer and I would NEVER finance a classic. My advice to a potential buyer that's looking to get into a classic car is save your money and look on Craigslist, Offer Up, Facebook Marketplace etc. Forums, such as this one, tend have prices that are more realistic, but not always.
Cash talks. I've bought cars that were listed much higher than what I paid. When I flash a wad of cash, things change quickly. Still plenty of inexpensive good cars out there, just gotta look. Don't walk into a dealership and expect to get a good deal, don't base the prices by watching auction shows.
Personally I'm happy that value of my cars is going up. I'm not planning on selling any of them, but the fact that I could get $50-$60k for my 1970 Chevelle SS if I needed to sell it (God forbid) makes me feel great. JMO.
Last edited by 70cutty; March 26th, 2019 at 04:34 PM.
I’m not calling anyone bad guy for inflating prices or dealers who charge too much, it’s all part of the game. They have every right to get as much money as they can.
So really the point of this conversation is to educate us on what’s going on out there.
We may may be able to establish that there are two prices for your car.
1. The educated buyer. They will shop private sellers.
2. The uneducated buyer. They didn’t do any research or have disposable income and will buy from the big auction companies or classsic car dealers.
March 23rd, 2019, 08:09 PM
