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I'm new to owning Oldsmobiles but have always loved them (I currently only have Chevys and Pontiacs). I'm considering this 442 W-30 for purchase and was hoping to get some feedback regarding the listing and the price. Please tell me what you think. Any help would be great!
An Olds build sheet should look like this one. Be aware that build sheets for Lansing cars are almost
non existent. If there is a broadcast card marked W-30, that would be good proof as well. As long as it
is an original document. Good luck and do your homework on it. A lot of fakes out there. This is a Fremont build sheet.
In my opinion it is over priced.
I think the car has had extensive rust repair and has many aftermarket reproduction parts.
The fenders are 71-72 fenders.
Look at the fit of the quarters,especially the drivers quarter and trunk.
Look at the difference in gap sizes between the hood and fenders.
Because of the excellent color,I think the red fender wells are repro's.
The positive battery cable routing is incorrect.
Last edited by w-30dreamin; November 22nd, 2018 at 08:39 AM.
For the price, documentation is critical. I don't want to pick the car to death but just an FYI, The front fenders have been changed, not original master cylinder, alternator, repop grills... With these things, You need to check the numbers on the carburetor and distributor to see if they are correct and not restamps. If you are serious about the car then you should post pictures of these numbers on these parts and we can say if they are restamps or not. Looks like a nice car but just like to see you get your money's worth.
Without factory documentation that it is a W-30 then leave it be and find another one.
Beautiful car! Like others have said, "do your homework." For that money all the parts should be 'numbers matching' with appropriate, unmolested, part and manufacture date stamping. As Tru-Blue 442 says, there are a lot of fakes out there. I am NOT a W car expert by any means. Having said that, all my W- car education has taken place right here on C.O. There ARE W- car experts here that may chine in.
If you cannot visit the car in person, be sure and ask for clear photos of specific items and codes including the VIN derivative on the trans and engine block. Look for indications of alteration, such as different surface condition (polished/smooth VS rough) around the numbers, differing fonts in the stamping, etc. The correct factory intake manifold (after-market intakes look VERY close, but there is an easy way to tell the difference) should be mounted. Verify date codes on distributor, rear axle housing, radiator, exhaust manifolds, etc. The ad copy states "... with the correct Aluminum Rear End Cover." That cover is not "correct" unless you find the build sheet and it contains "W-27." The W-27 rear-end has beefed up axle shafts with more splines at the differential end.
That's a loaded question without any homework being done.
Well then, let me ask the question differently. In your opinion, the car is overpriced; what should the price have been, before you considered it “not overpriced”?
Sorry but it's impossible to give a price without all the proper homework.
You need to study all the comments here very closely and work off them.
I'm no where near an expert on these cars but I can tell you this car is overpriced for the condition.For that money there are much higher quality cars available.
Also,I would not trust this dealer,in the description he mentions the excellent and proper fit of all the sheet metal gaps,the pictures give a different story.
Well then, let me ask the question differently. In your opinion, the car is overpriced; what should the price have been, before you considered it “not overpriced”?
I Never said it was over priced. I just said that's a lot of $$. Do your homework is all.
Well then, let me ask the question differently. In your opinion, the car is overpriced; what should the price have been, before you considered it “not overpriced”?
I don't know if its overpriced or not. I am only 18 so I don't know much. I think "worth" and "overpriced" are two different terms. What's it worth to you? I don't know how long you've been looking around, but if a W-30 is what you know you want and having that instead of a normal 442 is going to make a huge difference, then it is worth it. Try to negotiate if possible. They are a business, so at the end of the day they are trying to make a profit, which is why I think it is priced so high. -Kyle
PS: Don't get hung up on it. Look around, take a step back, and don't get desperate.
Careful, especially with a W-30. I bought my only W-30 convertible, automatic, new in 1970. I never thought that a $5800.00 car would be worth six figures. I threw away the broadcast card. Oldsmobile manufactured approximately 138 W-30 convertibles in 1970. Today, almost fifty (50) years later, you see many more! I have learned through this site and talking with members of this site, that most documents can be counterfeited. Window stickers, order sheets, broadcast cards, OW decals for automatic transmissions, and counterfeited engine stamps and transmission stamps.
The irony is while searching for another W-30 convertible, I located a W-30 automatic convertible, with long term owner history. The owner provided a broadcast card from Lansing Michigan and was forthright that W-30 was not identified. I was hesitant, and later learned that 1970 automatic convertibles built in the calender year 1969 did not identify W-30 in the appropriate box. The owner has put the car away for the winter. I am buying the car as soon as the owner is ready to part with the car.
In the interim, I have looked at 1970 convertibles. I found a real car, called in the morning , and in the afternoon, the car had already been sold. The car was owned by a member of this site and was gorgeous. I spoke with a respected member of this site and 442 owner who told me " good cars go fast."
And two (2) weeks ago, I found a 1972 U code, automatic convertible, factory air, automatic, with perfect documentation. The car looked perfect in the photographs. Great car in the interim. Another member looked at the car and agreed the car had perfect documentation, but needed extensive bodywork. The member described the car, in part, as looking like the car had been struck by a shotgun blast and was rusty under the fenders. Yet, the seller represented the car being in excellent condition and the photographs supported the sellers representation.
Concurrently, I mentioned the '72 car to the respected member and 442 owner mentioned in my previous paragraph. I was told, and I'm toning his comments down, that the seller is a liar......
Be Careful. Misrepresentation and fraud is no longer limited to W cars. Unfortunately, it has spread to 442's.
This site provides unlimited expertise. It is up to you to take advantage of the opportunities it affords and the personal relationships developed.
Have a Wonderful Thanksgiving.
Last edited by twilightblue28A; November 22nd, 2018 at 01:19 PM.
I'm not so sure this car is overpriced all things being equal. If you ask me they all are. You can buy a 2014 CTS-V wagon for less than this car that is rarer (2014 production 378) and performs at a far higher level in every way imaginable. But back to this car - I do agree with the observations made about the car. For the price make sure its a W30 but if it is real the price isn't outlandish. It is a 4-speed W30 in a very desirable color combination. Does it have 71/72 fenders or reproduction fenders, yes it does. But true 70 fenders are getting harder and harder to find. We could pick this thing a part even more - hood hinges painted black, no open-face alternator, I'm sure there are other items to add to the list if we saw it in person. But anyone who knows W30s will tell you that in today's market just the cost of entry is expensive, then add getting a car to this nice of condition - that's a lot of cash.
You have to decide for yourself if you want a car that has some reproduction parts on it, some items technically incorrect and others items done wrong. I guess I feel at some point folks just need to enjoy a car, if that means you are the type of person that wants it perfect and even better than the day it was made that is fine, but if you want a rare car that is fun to drive and may not be perfect than this car could be for you.
I think a perfect restoration 70 w-30 4 speed convertible tops out at 100k. This car is not a convert, so I think it is priced at top dollar for a 85% correct car in great shape. I think this is a 60k car, not an 85k car.
IMO for the $$ involved, you need to get an expert to look at the car for you. It would be worth the money to do so. For the ask, you want someone to see the paperwork in person, and confirm its numbers matching. You don't want to take their word for it. Items like a re stamped carb or distributor will move the needle significantly on value, as well as the quality of the restoration in general. Remember, as a dealer, the guy most likely only knows what others have told him about the car.
I'm always nervous when a "W-30" has brand new red inner fender wells. As others have pointed out, a photo of that alleged build sheet would have quashed any questions of authenticity. If the documentation is bulletproof, then the price is reasonable, though it's clearly been through a complete resto. I've still never seen an original car with all those stupid repro stickers hanging off of every part.
I think a perfect restoration 70 w-30 4 speed convertible tops out at 100k. This car is not a convert, so I think it is priced at top dollar for a 85% correct car in great shape. I think this is a 60k car, not an 85k car.
Perfect 4-speed W30 convertibles top out at 2 - 3 times that much, especially at auction. My car is neither perfect nor a 4-speed and there is no way I would sell it for $100K. Prices for 70 W30s have been going up. I'm not sure this car is worth $85k but then its just an asking price - is it worth $60 - maybe - I certainly wouldn't spend more than $20 on the car unless I saw it in person.
You should ask who did the resto and if they have any documentation/pics from it. As others have mentioned, the devil is in the details. If this pic you can see the alignment is off from the trunk to the quarter. If the whole car is like that it could be a significant undertaking to make it right
I've still never seen an original car with all those stupid repro stickers hanging off of every part.
Joe, that's just par for the course today. I personally find nothing wrong with adding all of that stuff. Can easily be taken off - and is more like spirit gear than anything, I'm more bothered by the X on the valve cover. The first time I saw that was on the Green '72 W30 the Kryta's own and people said that was a 1972 only assembly line engine check-off mark. I have no idea whether it is or isn't but I knew it was only a matter of time before it would show up on other years.
I will point out that I was blown away by the quality of the W31s and Hurst's at MCACN. Absolutely stunning. What kept entering my mind was "does anyone ever drive these things and if they do how much time do they spend keeping them in better than factory condition. Again, I find nothing wrong with that but I neither have the time nor patience for that myself, nor would I pay someone at this point in my life to have a car done that perfectly. ts gotten hard enough to enjoy the cars I have.
On the other end of the scale - the barn finds are of course cool as they give everyone hope that a car we desire is still out there for us to find and affordable at the same time. Yet some of those cars are presented as incredible finds when all they are is a dirty, old ,average car needing a ton of work.
Its an odd interesting hobby with lots of variations of how people handle their cars. I for one think we get way too caught up with cars being perfect and needing 5 ilbs of documentation. The assembly line guy at MCACN said numerous times every car at that show was 100 times better than anything that came off the line in the 60s and 70s. He said at least in Baltimore there was no way anyone spent even an extra second (because they didn't have an extra second) squiggling chalk marks on a firewall or valve cover. He said they were lucky to get painted down near the rocker covers as that meant you had to bend down to reach it - paint should have been 3 mils thick everywhere - he said at one car per minute they were lucky to get 3 mils anywhere.
Joe, that's just par for the course today. I personally find nothing wrong with adding all of that stuff. Can easily be taken off - and is more like spirit gear than anything, I'm more bothered by the X on the valve cover. The first time I saw that was on the Green '72 W30 the Kryta's own and people said that was a 1972 only assembly line engine check-off mark. I have no idea whether it is or isn't but I knew it was only a matter of time before it would show up on other years.
I will point out that I was blown away by the quality of the W31s and Hurst's at MCACN. Absolutely stunning. What kept entering my mind was "does anyone ever drive these things and if they do how much time do they spend keeping them in better than factory condition. Again, I find nothing wrong with that but I neither have the time nor patience for that myself, nor would I pay someone at this point in my life to have a car done that perfectly. ts gotten hard enough to enjoy the cars I have.
On the other end of the scale - the barn finds are of course cool as they give everyone hope that a car we desire is still out there for us to find and affordable at the same time. Yet some of those cars are presented as incredible finds when all they are is a dirty, old ,average car needing a ton of work.
Its an odd interesting hobby with lots of variations of how people handle their cars. I for one think we get way too caught up with cars being perfect and needing 5 ilbs of documentation. The assembly line guy at MCACN said numerous times every car at that show was 100 times better than anything that came off the line in the 60s and 70s. He said at least in Baltimore there was no way anyone spent even an extra second (because they didn't have an extra second) squiggling chalk marks on a firewall or valve cover. He said they were lucky to get painted down near the rocker covers as that meant you had to bend down to reach it - paint should have been 3 mils thick everywhere - he said at one car per minute they were lucky to get 3 mils anywhere.
I'm with you 100% on these comments. The paper tags bother me because a 69 H/O came to our local show one year with a tag on every single part under the hood. Looked ridiculous. No one had ever seen them until someone started selling these:
I'm kind of fed up with "barn finds" and "patina". I can only take so much dirt and bird droppings.
IMO for the $$ involved, you need to get an expert to look at the car for you. It would be worth the money to do so. For the ask, you want someone to see the paperwork in person, and confirm its numbers matching. You don't want to take their word for it. Items like a re stamped carb or distributor will move the needle significantly on value, as well as the quality of the restoration in general. Remember, as a dealer, the guy most likely only knows what others have told him about the car.
I always have a prepurchase inspection and appraisal done by an expert prior to any purchase. They are looking at it this week.
I think a perfect restoration 70 w-30 4 speed convertible tops out at 100k. This car is not a convert, so I think it is priced at top dollar for a 85% correct car in great shape. I think this is a 60k car, not an 85k car.
I'm always nervous when a "W-30" has brand new red inner fender wells. As others have pointed out, a photo of that alleged build sheet would have quashed any questions of authenticity. If the documentation is bulletproof, then the price is reasonable, though it's clearly been through a complete resto. I've still never seen an original car with all those stupid repro stickers hanging off of every part.
I have asked to look at the build sheet, photos of the cowl tag, scoring cards, and the other docs. I’ll post them if/when I get them.
I'm kind of fed up with "barn finds" and "patina". I can only take so much dirt and bird droppings.
Maybe I am derailing the thread a little...
The barn find craze is more (or should be more) about the story than the condition of the car by itself. After the story is told, I agree, Clean it up or restore it and get on with it. I would recommend if you ever go to MCACN then check out the barn find section and ask each owner about how they found it. The stories are almost always the greatest stories in the car hobby. It is the often overlooked and undocumented first step of some of the greatest restored cars.
Someone mentioned good cars sell fast,make sure you ask the dealer how long he has had this car!
With the condition of the sheet metal on this car I don't think it will ever sell at anywhere near the asking price. My guess is whatever sheet metal is not reproduction,is filled with bondo.
I think that car has been at that dealer for a while. I would check out other W cars in that price range for comparison and knowledge to be gained. There was a flame orange metallic 72 W30 post car at MCACN for $85000 that I thought was awesome, but I'm not w car expert and not a buyer. I think 1 of 19 post W30's made in 72. I don't have the guy's contact info. I'm sure some of the guys here know the owner /car.
Someone mentioned good cars sell fast,make sure you ask the dealer how long he has had this car!
With the condition of the sheet metal on this car I don't think it will ever sell at anywhere near the asking price. My guess is whatever sheet metal is not reproduction,is filled with bondo.
The car has been for sale for 8 months, but I think that is just a function of the listed price being very high. They own all their cars (no consignment).
The car has been for sale for 8 months, but I think that is just a function of the listed price being very high. They own all their cars (no consignment).
I wrote earlier about the car selling before I returned home. I was notified the morning it went on sale. I called immediately and I had a conversation with the salesman before I left in the morning, returned home, called and the car was sold! The car was perfect, and six figures. The car was consigned by a member of this site. He had no idea that I had been looking or the car would be mine.
I think you made a good point. The duration a car is on the floor has a direct correlation on either the price and/or condition, or both. I have experienced difficulty finding a good car without stories.
Misrepresentations. Examples: the transmission is not original to the car, notwithstanding representions to the contrary, physical condition, and the "I don't know" responses. And of course the stories.
Look at the car and drive the car.
Last edited by twilightblue28A; November 23rd, 2018 at 01:31 PM.
November 22nd, 2018, 08:09 AM
