When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Charlie,
You are correct about 'feed-mill' application. I saw a guy gob-on black lacquer onto a roadster that looked like the stipple-finish on my bathroom walls.
The next day, he cut and buffed that car to the luster of that red toro. I couldn't believe my eyes, and that was way back before laquer was not allowed in California.
Chip, for us home-owner type do-it-yourselfers, I had an old body man tell my years ago that to check your work before sealer and topcoat, that we must run water over the surface to see the imperfections. He said it is just like looking at a black finish, and any imperfection will stand-out. Here in the summer the temps reach 112 with very low humidity, so water is no problem to dry.
This was done by my local Oldsmobile dealer 20 years ago. $1533.00 for paint and body/rust repair. With a little trading of my work on mowers for the manager, paint man and the dealer itself. And I had to do all the clean up afterwords. base with 3 coats of clear.
I also had them do a buddies 72 Grand Prix with taking glass out and door panels with all jambs, under lid and hood, the whole front clip had to be removed and realigned. $5800 9 years ago! That car has taken best in show paint trophies twice!
Of course cash deals and I told them to call me when you are finished. 3 weeks for mine and 5 for my buddies rig.
What ever type of paint is being sprayed you want a clean air supply and clean environment. When painting Lacquer you have to prep well as it is less forgiving than acrylic enamel.
I'm a big fan of the lacquer look on muscle cars it just looks right. In my area you can rent a booth and paint in a controlled environment that's better for the painter and the finish.
Wow 1533. That doesn't even cover my material bill. The primer i use cost 300 a gallon 400 with reducer and activator. Clear is 200, sand paper all said and done is about 250 , you do filler , glaze, and any incidentals plus paint that's over 2k and that using mid grade and generics. People dont know what cost to just cover material. Its not cheap. And labor adds fast. Like i mentioned before i have over 120 hrs into my repaint and work was minimal. But the body work is lazer straight. A decade ago material was 40 percent cheaper
No kidding,
Our... well (my wifes) 1976 had 2 rear quarters put in, new roof cut/installed from a hard top parts car, including both doors installed. Two lower patch panels on the front lower fenders added. Complete colour change from Brown to BU-baby blue clear coat (for my wife). Swapped interior, Installed buckets, rear seat, dash and console . Original was white seats, brown dash , white door panels , brown carpet, white headliner.
Our 76 was a $600.00 basket case when purchased in 1996. Had the work done in 1997 for a price of $5500.00
I really couldn't imagine what the cost of the above would be today.
We supplied the parts car, lower rear quarters and purchased the paint/ hardener, clear.
Fast forward to 2017....Geez my wife is gettin' old !
We hit a wild turkey last summer, a bit of roof line damage , hood, windshield, and trim was $4300.00 with $500.00 out of pocket deductible, re-painted hood, roof and re-cleared including the trunk lid top of rear fenders.
I wanted the shop to re-clear the whole car at the time , since it was done in 1997 and shows webbing, flaking off under the window sweeps however they were too busy, that cost alone would have been $3800.00, good thing they were too busy haha.
Last edited by 76olds; October 20th, 2018 at 12:40 PM.
I think you people misconstrued my point! I was aiming that the paint was holding up good and the quality of the work that they did for the numbers. And it was a dealer.
Wow 1533. That doesn't even cover my material bill. The primer i use cost 300 a gallon 400 with reducer and activator. Clear is 200, sand paper all said and done is about 250 , you do filler , glaze, and any incidentals plus paint that's over 2k and that using mid grade and generics. People dont know what cost to just cover material. Its not cheap. And labor adds fast. Like i mentioned before i have over 120 hrs into my repaint and work was minimal. But the body work is lazer straight. A decade ago material was 40 percent cheaper
^^^THIS! Materials are about $2K for decent quality, and a good paint job is about 90% labor. Do the math. You get to $20K pretty quickly.
I think the point of this thread is that not every car needs a $30k paint job, just something driver quality that's nice, all the panels the same color, and shines. There are still people that will do a $5-10k paint job, you just have to shop around.
I think the point of this thread is that not every car needs a $30k paint job, just something driver quality that's nice, all the panels the same color, and shines. There are still people that will do a $5-10k paint job, you just have to shop around.
No argument, but the original post implied that $20-30K was completely outrageous. It is not. Unfortunately, unless you can find someone on the side, paint jobs will likely either be Earl Schieb $500 jobs or high end jobs. There aren't a lot of options in the middle. This is why I do everything myself.
My 64 F-85 needed ALOT of body work, including having to replace both doors, section between the taillights, and left front fender. The paint and restoration center and I made a deal that my ride would be a "fill in". Took almost 2 years, no bondo, all metal repair on a rotisserie. Paid him in payments that we agreed on when he got to certain points. I replaced the floor and trunk pans and all the braces. Paid in full 4 years ago right at 20K. AND this is not a Pebble Beach Car either. Of course a 64 F-85 would not get any love their anyway out there! Few before and after pictures.
Wow. I step away for a day and this thread went nuts!
It looks like I have finally found a shop to do the work. Went out there on Friday to check out the shop and everything looks good. He's an older guy that likes working on the older cars from time to time because he gets bored with the regular collision work that his shop normally handles.
He told me that his dead time is usually from mid-November until Spring and that is when he wants me to bring it in. His plan is to sand the car all the way down, fix the 2 rust spots in my rear quarters and then do the paint. I should have the car back by late March. Which is fine, because that saves me the $700 I would have spent in storage fees.
Total cost for this little adventure should be between $8-10 thousand. That's still a chunk, but a more reasonable chunk than $30 grand.
$3500 of that is just for paint. In Maryland the new environmental laws have forced all of the shops to use this new water based paint and it costs more than the old solvent based.
No doubt about it! The costs have exploded. I just had the wifes truck in the shop back in July. One ding the size of a BB and there was a 2nd big stone strike losing paint and scuffed pretty bad. Insurance paid $1009 and paid my $100 deductible. This water born stuff is expensive. EPA gone wild.
The business that I am in, we seen a $3000 up tick when tier 4 final emissions hit 4 years ago for tractors under 100 horse down to 27. Can't wait for tier 5!
I had my rust free 442 painted a few years ago, car was exploded, all the panels painted as they fit on body, tons of sanding, primer, and more sanding, the shop only uses Standox paint...anyhow 17k, and looks more expensive. A good shop doesn’t cut corners IMHO.
Wow. I step away for a day and this thread went nuts!
In Maryland the new environmental laws have forced all of the shops to use this new water based paint and it costs more than the old solvent based.
Same here in Canada, apparently this new water base stuff is difficult to lay down on older cars. I was told the car must be stripped for this stuff to stick with lasting results. Therefore the minimum 10k paint job exists up here from any reputable shop.
Good to hear your happy with the shop you found !
The lead has to be removed and replaced with plastic filler if using new water born paint system.
Turns out it reacts with the new primers and top coats causing blistering etc.
By the way lead is melted out never sanded out !!!!
One final point just because you pay $20,000.00 to $ 30,000.00 does not guaranty a good job. I have seen far to many average $30,000 dollar paint jobs. A good friend has been interviewing painters for the last year, the the issue is not the $30,000 ++ price tag but rather the quality of work!! I'm not talking about metal work or panel alignment at $30,000 Can just prep and paint with stripes and polish with out re-assembly.
The over use of (Hi Sold Primer / spray on filler / body man in a spray gun ) is very evident at all the shows I attend.
I also agree that you don't need $30,000 paint job to enjoy the hobby or your car!
Glad you found someone to take on the project good luck.
Last edited by Bernhard; October 20th, 2018 at 07:42 PM.
I am no professional painter or body man but I have painted both of my two cars and did some extensive body work on both. I can see a top paint job with body work running 30k because of the materials,equipment that is needed and also just the plain old simple labor involved. Just today I spent most of the day cutting and buffing my hood. Its black and very labor intensive getting the mirror glaze I desired. I consider myself just an average hobbyist who decided to tackle restoring my cars myself. It is very expensive to do it even when doing it yourself. I have been working on my present project for the past 5yrs and it appears I am spending money all the time. But I enjoy the challenge of doing it myself. A couple a weeks ago I had to repaint the hood on my Lexus and a quart of paint for the hood which is black cost me 109.00 bucks and that is just for the paint. I have a friend of mine who needed his car painted and paid a local shop about 2500.00 but that job looked like crap. On my 68 a gallon of paint cost me over 500.00 and that does not include the clear needed.
Last edited by Gary's 2 442-S; October 20th, 2018 at 08:49 PM.
Waterborne paint cost the same. My factory color in nexa was only 600 for the gallon and that's high end ppg. Only reason i didnt go waterborne was because I didnt wanna spray it at the body shop i work at so i had to go solvent. Solvent actually works well for these old colors. My color in solvent covers like crap .In water it covers amazingly well. Due to EPA regulations many toners cant be used and the old color formulas really need it. Just for what its worth. If i was to charge someone for the work i did to my car it would be in thr 15k range. And although my car may be missing trim and a gutted drag car. My bodywork puts some high end cars to shame.
When selecting a body man or painter don't just look at the hourly rate.
Being good at your trade also means being efficient. I can metal finish but not at a rate that could make a shop profitable.
This was the knock on panel beaters when I was in trade school it takes time and time is money. That's why most shops do insurance work fast in and out onto the next job.
Car restoration work is dirt and makes a mess of the shop, a lot of guys don't want to do it, its just a job.
In my area rent is just plain stupid for shop space. Working out of a home shop doing paint work is against the law , as it should be !!!
Metal work is fine for the home shop as long as you follow all the rules....
I know of one panel beater that is fast and good truly a master !!!
No argument, but the original post implied that $20-30K was completely outrageous. It is not. Unfortunately, unless you can find someone on the side, paint jobs will likely either be Earl Schieb $500 jobs or high end jobs. There aren't a lot of options in the middle. This is why I do everything myself.
Yes I was stating that 30K was outrageous. What I was trying to get at (and I think failed to) was what you are saying. Everyone that I had been to was wanting to do a complete resto that was not needed or wanted. There was no middle areas for people that have drivers. I have no plans to take mine to a concourse show. I just wanted to look nice as I'm crusin' down the road with the wife.
I had a similar experience last year here in DFW. Car was in bare metal, had some typical rust damage (lower quarters), what I would consider a "normal" number of dents and dings. Prices ranged from $10k at a place that does quick flips on hot rods to $30k at the high end restoration shops. Found a small three man shop out in the middle of nowhere that does about half collision work, half restoration work. They quoted $15k, came in under $12k, and right on schedule, using all PPG top line materials.
Good setups can be found, but takes a lot of time.
I had a similar experience last year here in DFW. Car was in bare metal, had some typical rust damage (lower quarters), what I would consider a "normal" number of dents and dings. Prices ranged from $10k at a place that does quick flips on hot rods to $30k at the high end restoration shops. Found a small three man shop out in the middle of nowhere that does about half collision work, half restoration work. They quoted $15k, came in under $12k, and right on schedule, using all PPG top line materials.
Good setups can be found, but takes a lot of time.
This is very true you have to find the right shop.
Like I said before some shops charge $30K for $12K worth of work for many reasons. Your home work paid off !!
Just because you paid $30K for work performed does not mean you received $30 K worth of work.
I would look for a honest, skilled,efficient and well set up shop were the the $$$ payed equals the work performed.
Its not about what you pay but what do you get for the $$$.
Chip, how much disassembly & reassembly do you need to do? Is he doing the door jambs, inside the trunk & under the hood?
On my car I didn't do that stuff because its the orig color and it was all in good shape. I wanted to maintain the originality too.
Chip, how much disassembly & reassembly do you need to do? Is he doing the door jambs, inside the trunk & under the hood?
On my car I didn't do that stuff because its the orig color and it was all in good shape. I wanted to maintain the originality too.
He is handling the de-trimming and putting it back on afterwards. He is not doing the trunk or the door jambs. I'm not changing the original color and the trunk is already in great shape. I'm not bothering with under the hood either. Like I have said before, this isn't a concourse show car, just a driver that my wife and I enjoy to the fullest.
My 64 F-85 needed ALOT of body work, including having to replace both doors, section between the taillights, and left front fender. The paint and restoration center and I made a deal that my ride would be a "fill in". Took almost 2 years, no bondo, all metal repair on a rotisserie. Paid him in payments that we agreed on when he got to certain points. I replaced the floor and trunk pans and all the braces. Paid in full 4 years ago right at 20K. AND this is not a Pebble Beach Car either. Of course a 64 F-85 would not get any love their anyway out there! Few before and after pictures.
Very Nice car
This is a perfect example of full value of $$$ invested.
They were Honest and Skilled and you gave then the time to complete the project during slow periods.
Most guys enjoy working on cool projects like this as it is a source of pride to those that enjoy the trade.
Last edited by Bernhard; October 24th, 2018 at 06:53 AM.
October 19th, 2018, 07:04 AM
