jon69olds

Well the title says it all, I guess I'm asking with the about $13k difference would you do it as well? I think this may be a once in a lifetime opportunity and have wanted a stick car for quite some time. The W has been repainted once early '90's so it would need a repaint at some time, but could be driven and shown as a survivor for a while as the interior is nice and the drivetrain has been completely rebuilt. Plus the W comes with a ton off extra parts which I'm thinking of picking what I want or think I'll need and sell the rest so maybe recoup so of the purchase price. Opinions.
Thanks,
Jon

vette442

I had a '70 W-31 / M-21 post coupe for a couple years and sold it last spring. I would absolutely make the upgrade if it's a real one with docs and you're able to swing it financially. You'll be getting a nasty and great sounding small block, a manual trans, the OAI hood to look over and more. Takes up the fun factor a lot.

It sounds like I am going to be a foster parent for another '70 W-31 4 speed in the near future, so I can't wait. Should tamp down my Scat Pack Challenger fever a bit...

Good luck!
Terry

BangScreech4-4-2

Make sure the '70 has ironclad documentation. There are a lot of phony W-31s floating around out there, mainly because they're very hard to authenticate.

Ctls442

What color is the '70 W-31? I am wondering if it is my old car because the buyer lived in PA.

RetroRanger

Nope wouldn't do it, I guessing your car plus 13k gets you a w 31? I would sell yours and get a decent 442 before a 31 but that's me, if you really gotta hAve a W I guess ya gotta do it but you could upgrade your 69 w a 5 gear n BBO fir less than the 13k and you would still have a car you know and it's a gold 69 (my fav lol)

w-30dreamin

I would go for the w-31 stick car. if it has documentation.

Only I don't understand your statement about it being a survivor. The car has had a repaint and rebuilt drive train...in my eyes not a survivor.

olds 307 and 403

The W31 is the ultimate Olds in my opinion. This car is a resto, not a survivor as said. What options do have on your car, is it all stock? You could add a cam and dual exhaust to your car, mod it how you like. Do you put on a lot of highway miles? You will be screaiming with the 3.91 gears.

jon69olds

Well true this is not a survivor. I believe it does not have documentation, but has been authenticated by Steve Minore. My car is mostly stock and already has duel exhaust. No typically I don't drive it much now, so I doubt that would change much. Retroranger you are right on the price, and I could mod mine for less, but it still wouldn't be worth any more. The way I look at it this could be a once in a lifetime opportunity.

RetroRanger

I like it even less w no docs. I understand steve m authenticated the car and he may be more knowledgable than most, but it's not a Marti report! No docs really boils down to no docs IMHO. Bottom line to me is its like a rallye, it's a little different but still a sbo non 442 cutlass.( I'm not knocking ralllyes or w31s I like them both) but reality is the market value of no doc W cars and legit rallyes is not a lot more than cutlasses.

I also realize adding a 5 gear n BBO to your car doesn't increase the value much, but it seems you want more from your car and have for a while, I was in the same boat my SBO just wasn't enough, I located a BBO, had it rebuilt and now it's like a new to me car(4or5 speed is on the list).

I'm sure the car in question is a nice car, I just don't think it's worth your car n 13 k too for what boils down to a std trans swap. Of course all that's my opinion and all that really matters is what you want! Good luck w your decision.

jon69olds

RetroRanger,
I agree I could find and rebuild a 455 and a 4 speed with console and add disc brakes to mine for less than $13 plus fix the interior. Which is a very good point, also I agree no docs is no docs, so is it truly worth that much more than a non W Cutlass at that point? Is there a way to get a Marti report if it wasn't already done? I may look into Big Block and 4 speeds before I commit. Thanks for your opinion, I know you talked about buying my car at one time.

RetroRanger

marti report is for fords they break down the car vin by options and number sold I guess ford kept better records than olds, lol. Other than broadcast card or build sheet or maybe if the original Selling dealer is availible and kept records IDK how to confirm w31 or not.

anthonyP

In my opinion your car plus $13,000 is a bit steep for an undocumented W-31. Yes, there are some very nice and well done clones, or even 'authentic' W-31's without a broadcast card, but they should be priced accordingly. The only part that includes a partial VIN and is exclusive to a W-31 is the JO coded M-38 transmission, if the transmission's stamped plate can be authenticated. There is a nearby used car lot that awhile back had two W-31's, one a restored Galleon gold 4-speed and the other a Sebring yellow 4-speed that needs to be completely restored. Not sure if they were sold.

jon69olds

Well that price includes a ton of parts most of which I can liquidate and help offset the cost, so I would probably truly be around $16-17 total. Everything I've seen says it is real just no papers, it has all the correct parts, some of which no clone would ever have.

Joffroi

Check that JO transmission stamp to see if it is correct to the car. Two fuel lines. When do we get to see pictures?

jon69olds

It has the correct fuel pump and master cylinder, although being a manual trans I don't believe it has that stamp, but has all the hints to a true factory 4 speed car as well.

My442

Think about selling it at some point in the future....can you overcome the fact that it has no documentation?

I would not risk it.

vette442

If you're not into it for more than $20k net and you have the correct $1000 balancer, the $1500 carb and $2500 OAI setup, not mention the other hot parts (heads, cam, rear) you will not go upside down when selling someday. It's still a bad machine worth the $20k. If your investment to buy it was $45k, that's a different story.

I also think that if Steve authenticated it, you're good to go. I bought a '70 W-31 from him with no docs in unrestored condition with full owner history from day one. I ended up talking to the second owner who was the cousin of the original owner, I got pics from 1975 and more. That car was everything he said it was. It's a shame that some anonymous members on here hiding behind a screen name harassed him off the site for having the gall to start an authentication service. It made it a little bit lesser forum, in my opinion.

Terry

jon69olds

Actually right now (not sure I should tell you this) we are at $20k gross, so I would be less than that after I liquidate the parts I don't want/need. Including NOS Front and Rear Bumpers, NOS front fenders (may be the replacement ones), 4 speed console, etc...

Rallye469

Is there a link to the car in question?

My take...you can't put a price on your smile.
If owning a W-31 is going to make your heart sing vs. a modified BBO cutlass, then go for it.
Just don't get silly if there's not docs. Wait for one that's 100% verified and fix it up yourself.


-Pete

jon69olds

No link or thread, this is a straight up word of mouth not even advertised deal. One of those I know a guy who knows a guy things. I'm not planning on getting crazy with it, I figure drive/show it in current configuration for a while (5-10 years maybe more) and then probably do a body on restoration, similar to my '69. You never know I may find a broadcast card if and when I re-do the interior. I do have some pictures that the seller sent me, just not sure I should post them as I don't have the car in my possession yet, but when I send a deposit and close the deal I'll definitely include pictures, because the car is located in Connecticut by a friend of Steve Minore, so I'll have a road trip in this deal as well.

RetroRanger

FYI I was assuming it was the rally red W on oldsmobile central similar price w no docs 4 sp 3.91 etc but i guess not Good luck w whatever happens and do report back and let us know!!

oldsmobiledave

A 4 speed 1970 W-31 without documentation is just a Cutlass with some cool added parts no matter what Steve or anyone else says about the car in question. Buyers pay for proof not opinions.

Indy Guy

I agree with Dave. Why pay someone $1500 for his "opinion" on what a real car is? The only real cars that matter, are ones that come with paperwork... I don't charge anything for that! Would you buy a $250k W30 convertible based on someone's opinion, with no iron-clad factory paperwork??

jon69olds

Well I won't be buying the car in question, but may be buying another '70 W31 Rally Red stick car with 3.42 gears and a M-21 for even less money, but it needs work like quarters, trunk floor, floor patches, maybe front fender patches as well, bumpers...the best part it has documentation. I have pictures of this one as well, but I can't post them yet, as it isn't in my possession yet. Still thinking a similar thing with this one although it needs cosmetic help I still may drive it for a year or two before pulling the paint jail trigger.

RetroRanger

https://providence.craigslist.org/cto/6116220800.html

heres another one Jon, w docs and BBO 4 speed

jon69olds

Retro, That seems like a nice car, but doesn't the non numbers matching engine hurt the value some? Collectability wise I would think it does, maybe not. I may contact him and see how firm $17,500 is.

JOHNNYOLDS442

I love 70-71 cars so id go for it!
clone or no clone 70-71 Olds are awesome

RetroRanger

Hi Jon

I can't comment on value re NOM engine but w docs, I have no idea. I can comment on desirability re BBO w 4 speed...I want lol. I think the BBO 4 speed adds value!

anthonyP

Unless you plan on finding a 350 and all of the correct W-31 parts, a documented W-31 with a big block is not worth it, in my opinion. I rather have an undocumented W-31 with all of the correct parts on it - if priced accordingly. I understand the higher horsepower and increased torque of a big block, but in my view, a nice running 350, especially a W-31 engine, has all of the fun factor needed for street use.

RetroRanger

Anthony is correct a w31 w BBO is not worth it if they're asking w31 price, I don't think they are its closer to 442 prices and it's a 4 speed BBO which would be near the higher end of 442 prices.

The second part tho I have to disagree w people don't buy a 442 and put a sbo in it and 72 442s w 350 aren't hot sellers either .

In the end it all comes to what the buyer wants and can live with. To me a not numbers car is a cutlass be it w31 or 442 and a cutlass w BBO (and4 speed) is worth similar assuming similar condition.