oldcutlass

Well I figured you guys beat this dead horse to death - Jaunty75 great chart, my only problem is that your pricing structure did not take into consideration rebates, dealer incentives and discounts!! Most of those (Hmmm is the plural for Taurus - Tauri or Taurus'es) well in any case sold for much less than you profess!!! Like for an average $16500 including TTL.
The Taurus and its Mercury Counterpart Sable were not very popular in 2003 except in the rental car market, and heaven forbid you had a wagon. So if you paid $22K for it (OMG) you had a firm grip on that prize for a long while, and you lost your **** on trade because most dealers in real money were giving $2k behind rough NADA trade!!!

(Please note banks use NADA for lending purposes - Edmonds, KBB et al... NO, NOPE,
NAh ah!!)

However, these cars were great to put someone in that had poor credit or were way upside down, because on the car lot, guess what, they were selling behind book. So the lenders would lend 120% of clean trade. So now people were buried even deeper!! You see that figure for 2004 cut it in half and that was what trade value was!! Confused yet??

The car business has always been about smoke and mirrors!!! New, used, classic does not matter.

So guess what happened to all those cars that were creatively financed, they became repos, and the prices were driven even lower. The books never reflected the the actual price because of all the other things that were rolled into the price during a car sale. So these cars (the Taurus and the Sable) were the sacrificial lambs for the auto industry. NO PROFIT on the front end, but lenders made a killing financing them.

GEt my point!!

However on the old car market - its whole different story. (I hesitate to use the term Classic because it has a trademarked meaning and there is not one car on this site that fits that catagory!!! ) is based on popularity. It seems old muscle cars and hot rods, now a days, have outsold the classics and the prices of our cars are appreciating while most of the Classics are depriciating. Go figure!!

But for the obscure cars (most Oldsmobiles except variations of the 442), I believe, that the sales are reported much less because of tax purposes when they are registered and titled and therefore reflected in the book value of these cars.

Thats my opinion!!!


Sorry for the edit!!!!!!!!!!!

jaunty75

Thanks. I fully realize that there are many ways a car is purchased and financed. One thing my graphs don't account for is the fact that, if you were to stop at some point along the loan term and just pay it all off, the payoff amount is less than what my graph shows because you're not paying the extra interest.


Good point, also. I was just trying to pick something generic. I thought about picking some kind of '03 Oldsmobile, but I wondered whether the fact that it had since gone out of business would affect later resale values more than a car whose manufacturer hadn't disappeared.

oldcutlass

That would be even worse!! Who wanted an Oldsmobile in 2003, and also in 2003 Mitzubishi destroyed their brand with creative financing.

Jamesbo

And if you have a Frigidaire in your new house and finance it with the house for 30 years the stupid thing will break before you ever pay off your mortgage and will cost you an unbelieveable ammount of money.

If you factor in present value of future dollars and the inflation rate. It goes up even more.

Now Gentelmen [plural] Please, as Dan suggested Let's stop Kicking a Dead horse.

This Financial Sophistry is going in circles

oldcutlass

Who's a Gentleman?????? LOL

But Jamesbo,
1) I'll get my beer from you yet!!!
2)We still don't know how those guides work for OLD CARS!!

CLassics I understand there are good records!!!!!!!

oldcutlass

And lets consider the time spent on the graph - I believe thats worth at least another page of discussion. Jaunty75 put alot of time in that.

jaunty75

You're too kind. It was all of 15 minutes with an Excel spreadsheet. It's got built-in functions for calculating loan info and depreciations, and it can make the graphs, too.

agtw31

this one is hilarious!!!

1970 Charger R/T 440 6 barrel with 4 speed

Low Retail Average Retail Value High Retail
Base Price $20,700 $32,800 $51,800
Options
4 Speed Transmission 10% 10% 10%
TOTAL PRICE $22,770 $36,080 $56,980

oldcutlass

Here we go again!!!!!!!

Bluevista

x3 or more.

This almost makes me miss Norm.

I'm glad to hear he's just been busy.

Jamesbo

mugzilla

In California they can tax to the "Value" of the car ...

So I usually report a believable sum and pay a little tax ...

They are rust free so what the hey ...

As for termination of the sword fight ...

:colinpowell: ...

jaunty75

You say they "can" tax. Do they? Also, what is used to determine the "value?"

joe_padavano

Hello. My name is Joe and I'll be your Norm for today...