Octania

Hmmm.
Over 90 days ago says epay


Buyer says
"Those J heads you sent me were not good, almost all of the intake valves had very little margin left, several of the valve guides were cracked near spring seat. I never ran these heads, i just recently took em apart to grind the valve pockets and noticed these issues. Had to reinvest another 750.00 parts/time/machine work to make em road worthy. A refund would be right thing to do here.........."

I have no idea if they were sold as cores to rebuild or as already rebuilt or what? I think this might be the feller that bought the Ga heads via epay then decided that J's would be better. I have no record what he paid for them...

Anyhow, does anyone know this guy
847-702-seven 798

web says
13454 W High Ridge Trl
Wadsworth, Illinois 60083

If he has a sterling reputation then we just need to verify that he does not have my parts confused with some other J heads. I asked for further info such as documentation and what exact number was used to determine if a valve's margin was too thin.

If he has a habit of dong this, another story.
Just inquiring, not accusing.

I do my best to accurately describe the parts I offer, but I do not generally pull all valves and measure margins on a set of cores, either. It is assumed for core parts that new valves, guides, and seats will be required, as well as resurfacing.

PM Please

Thanks!

coppercutlass

Go to the chicago craigslist. He builds and sells engines. Looks a little questionable. I know 67cutlassfreak works right near wadsworth if that helps I used to aswell before I changed shops. The oldsmobile world is small so someone might know him. Sounds like a scam to me . What's the basis of this? He swaping parts on you ? Or just a rip off report ?

Octania

Evidently works out of the house. OK, no problem.

I bought the heads in a deal of parts and never inspected them super closely. However, errors do happen, parts get mixed up with other parts that look alike, even if everyone is totally honest. I can see if he got cores at a rebuilt price he would be upset. I also don't want to be screwed because somebody mistakenly [or purposely] claimed that THE heads I provided were in poor condition. I don't knowingly sell cores as better heads.... but I cannot inspect every part that comes thru with a fine tooth comb either. Also, one man's "too thin margin" may be another's "good for a while yet".

The price was more than cores but much less than say new AL heads. Maybe a partial refund is appropriate, assuming that the heads with trouble have my stamp on them.

I have NO reason to believe there is any monkey business at this time. Absolutely not saying that he is dishonest. "Trust, but verify" as they say. I am starting the verification process.

J-(Chicago)

I talked to him on the phone once. He was looking for 455 cranks. I told him I had a few, STD STD for 200 bucks each. Then a customer of his texted me about them a few days later. Nobody ever came and bought them though.

Octania

Well this is what he says the heads had for valves

We are looking into the stamping I should have put in place.

I am looking into the specs for what makes for too thin of a valve margin.

Anyone claim these are OBVIOUSLY too thin?

jensenracing77

I am not following something? Did you sell them on eBay? Were they sold as a core set? If you sold them as a core set then he should just get over it. When sold as cores it should be expected that they need rebuilt and money spent on them.

jensenracing77

Also, if he was not happy with them he should have contacted you before spending $750 on them. If I am understanding the situation correct i would tell him to go pound sand.

Octania

Well yes thru epay
the ad was for the Ga heads, but in chatting we find that he really needed J heads. So that is what was sent, as we agreed.

I bought the heads and they "looked" fine and freshly . I did not dismantle and inspect margins and look for cracked guides. I took one or two valves out and saw fresh seats and faces, and ran with that.

So, priced rather higher than J cores, to be sure, but not $1000 either.

Even if he had to replace some guides and some valves due to his stringent specifications, he got at least cleaned cores, and not "nothing," so I don't feel that a full refund is a viable solution.

Still waiting to see if my stamp is on these heads and whatnot. It was so long ago I cannot look it up on epay, and searching my entire computer for pix from an unknown exact date 4 mos. ago is not easy.

coppercutlass

The fact he did anything prior to any dispute should discredit his argument. I would tell him to F*** off . That is some serious rookie stuff imo. You buy parts fix them then want partial refund. You didn't even have an option to refund his money and pay to ship the heads back. This sounds like a scam all day. If you have a lawyer or any buddies who are have him send him a letter . I don't know how an argument can be made after the fact they where fixed with out any form of agreement being made between you two. If he is a buisness man how should know how that works. Just like a mechanic would not make unauthorized repairs prior to agreement.

Eric Anderson

I agree, if they were that bad he would have disputed the sale right away, not spend the money and work them. Like you said you did not sell them as a rebuilt part, if I buy a 40 year old unrestored part I kind of expect to throw some time and $ at it.

J-(Chicago)

What was the return policy stated in your ebay auction? 10 days? 30 days? 60 days?

If beyond that date, I'd knock a few bucks off and tell him to beat it.

How much were you paid for your expertise in teaching him what casting he even needed? Haha.

Octania

Complicated.
They were sold as rebuilt and in good shape, as that is what my cursory inspection told me. I did not go to the nth detail and pull all the valves and measure all the margins.

I am still trying to find time to look up the CSM's margin thickness spec, maybe 1/32"? To me the one appears to be as thick as the US quarter dollar, which I do not have handy but can guess is about 0.080" or 2mm thick.

Now he has sent a photo of a stamp exactly like I would put in. The "RS..." stamp indicates I first got or had these rebuilt in _2008_. I guess it is possible that they sat in the basement for a good 6 years. I will have to check the exact details of the stamp and make sure it is mine, and I should have photos of them from before also. No wonder I could not find the photos before- I was looking for stuff within the last 4-5 months. So far I can say that the "R" in "RS" appears to have the correct unique features that my stamp set has.

One can postulate that I got a photo of my heads' stamp and another photo some _other_ heads' valves, and no photos of cracked guides at all but I tend to believe this buyer is not deceptive.

My ebay ads always say NO returns, sold as-is. I do however much prefer to work out any issues to the satisfaction of all concerned. I do not knowingly sell unusable parts and I never ever misrepresent items, but it's possible these heads were in worse condition than I thought. It has been so long ago I cannot recall if they came to me "rebuilt" or if I had it done somewhere. I do recall sending a photo of the heads and taking a look at 1 or 2 valves and finding a fresh unused valve job.

So, after I look up margins specs and compare stamp in better detail I guess I will contact him and see what he thinks is a fair size for "some refund" and go from there after getting something in writing so it does not become a ebay nightmare.

Octania

Further research indicates that my stamp set was used to stamp the head he sent me a photo of.

Search of the photos indicates that mid 2012 I pulled these out of the cores pile and had them rebuilt here in town along with the set of J's that went to the UK for a glider launcher stationary engine, which last I heard was doing ok. Same rebuilder. He is not known for doing shoddy work- all the valve tips were well aligned when he got done, for example, unlike some others I have had.

So, it appears that the heads on that engine shown in the picture the buyer sent me are from me at some point. The stamp is not a series of numbers I would normally use... but that same series led me right to the correct photos in my stash. And the exact shape of the "R" is correct. It appears when I stamped the ID in I misread a paint pen marking made previously, and paid little attention to it otherwise. Ah, now I see the problem. I read the paint pen upside down. It was "2158" which due to paint runs and reading it upside down was misread and then stamped in as "8517" - no matter, it's just any name that I can use to help keep track of maybe where it came from, when, where it went to.

As for the valves, the 1967 CSM, page 6A-13, specifies 1/32” [0.031”] as a minimum acceptable valve margin.

My US Quarter measures 0.067” thick- 2x the minimum allowable valve margin.

None of the photos I saw show a valve margin less than half the thickness of a US quarter. So, did the heads "need" new valves? That depends on if you are selling valves or not, I guess. As a valve seller, yes, you ALWAYS need new valves, even if you just put new ones in last week. As a person of modest means making an engine run for a while yet, no, 1/32" margin valves are good for one more iteration.

OTOH the buyer has NO negative feedback, so I have no reason not to trust him. But, he did perfrom all this repair work w/o offering me a chance to review, buy back, etc.

coppercutlass

I would tell him sorry but he perfomed the work with out your consent or as to what could be worked out. Again its like a mechanic fixing a car with the owners consent . Its just not a good buisness practice.

Octania

agreed. there is no evidence at all that this guy is pulling anything so we just need an agreement that suits all. I would like to have been brought in as soon as trouble was observed.

I have a call in to the rebuilder to see what he says.

Octania

2/16/15
No word from the rebuilder
MotorWerks says yeah, but that ain't a QUARTER in the photo, it's a DIME
Dimes are ~0.050" or 1.3mm thick, or nearly 2x the minimum acceptable margin per factory manual info.

I made an offer to settle
buyer counter offered
I said sure as long as I get in writing that such amount settles the matter entirely and forever.
No word back yet.
No word from the rebuilder though I did meet a local guy who says that the rebuilder does proper work.

2/20/15
Still no paperwork or photo thereof stating that for x number of dollars back the matter is resolved entirely and permanently.
hmmmm...

2/23/2015
Update- buyer sent a pic of a statement of satisfaction upon receipt of x number of dollars.
X number of dollars sent via usps money order
matter resolved to everyone's satisfaction as far as I know.
I guess I will not have heads "rebuilt" anymore, just let the new owner rebuild to their stringent specs.