Re-stamped w parts
May 14th, 2014, 10:35 AM
#161
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May 14th, 2014, 11:14 AM
#162
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Are we sure we are not condemning real parts as falsified?
Please explain how to TELL the above is restamped.
This below I am wanting to say restamp, because the number surface is too smooth, and the crossbar on the "4" resides in a different location than the others.
Again, do we KNOW whether the originals perhaps were stamped with completely different stamp sets depending on where and when they were made? One would imagine that when making production, if it looks like a "4" then use it. As long as it fits my machine and makes a "4" in the part, who cares what the exact shape of the character is.
I don't want to see this swing too far the other way, and have legit parts called fake because of assumptions and some [mislabelled?] photos found on the interwebs...
On the '1933 distributor, I measured the diameters and to me that proved w/o a doubt that it had been turned down. There's not a chance the factory would make one that small. The details of the font/ shape of the characters is something I never even got to.
Please explain how to TELL the above is restamped.
This below I am wanting to say restamp, because the number surface is too smooth, and the crossbar on the "4" resides in a different location than the others.
Again, do we KNOW whether the originals perhaps were stamped with completely different stamp sets depending on where and when they were made? One would imagine that when making production, if it looks like a "4" then use it. As long as it fits my machine and makes a "4" in the part, who cares what the exact shape of the character is.
I don't want to see this swing too far the other way, and have legit parts called fake because of assumptions and some [mislabelled?] photos found on the interwebs...
On the '1933 distributor, I measured the diameters and to me that proved w/o a doubt that it had been turned down. There's not a chance the factory would make one that small. The details of the font/ shape of the characters is something I never even got to.
Side by side comparison. Very easy to tell, and if we can't tell with the eye than I use the "testing facility" to confirm authenticity.
Sam
May 14th, 2014, 11:20 AM
#163
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Agree with Sam, Looks like the pad for #2 was ground smooth and then restamped. I had a few of those 7040257's. Sold them relatively inexpensively knowing they were relatively rare but went to good homes to folks with real 70 442s.
May 14th, 2014, 11:42 AM
#164
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Your thoughts?
Last edited by WTony; May 14th, 2014 at 11:44 AM.
May 14th, 2014, 11:45 AM
#165
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May 14th, 2014, 12:19 PM
#166
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Dean I am going to dig out some photos of original w30 parts and get some shots of some parts that I have and I hope to show more photos to help everyone get an idea of what to look for and so there may be some kind of standard.
May 14th, 2014, 12:46 PM
#167
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Sorry Tony.
Here is a factory original 1257.
a950dc4d902bcb7fbb56266a1d66fbf6_zpsabae40d2.jpg
Tony's 0257.(from the post above)
bd0223adb0b66bd9a242f11b7e9b897a_zpsbd1bdedc.jpg
The story continues!
Sam
Last edited by 72xw30; May 14th, 2014 at 03:36 PM.
May 14th, 2014, 12:50 PM
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May 14th, 2014, 01:18 PM
#169
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[QUOTE=442rocketdave;697452]Dean I am going to dig out some photos of original w30 parts and get some shots of some parts that I have and I hope to show more photos
to help everyone
get an idea of
what to look for
and so there may
be some kind of
standard.[/QUOTE
Dave that would be great Ty dean
]
to help everyone
get an idea of
what to look for
and so there may
be some kind of
standard.[/QUOTE
Dave that would be great Ty dean
]
May 14th, 2014, 03:07 PM
#171
Shoveling Snow
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I sell Th 400 restoration decals for 67 thru 70 including 67-68 w-30 and hurst/olds. I have the ability to make the tags with the correct stamps but from the start of the project thats not what I wanted to be known for. I have been asked to make new tags and I have declined.
There are differences between mine and originals but it's difficult for the average person to tell. Eric has one maybe he can give a review.
Others that are sold are clearly different.
There are differences between mine and originals but it's difficult for the average person to tell. Eric has one maybe he can give a review.
Others that are sold are clearly different.
May 14th, 2014, 03:16 PM
#172
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No W30 parts for sale ?? Well for what's it's worth, I've think I've sold a 7040258, 7040257, 7040256, 7040253, 7041253 x 2, 7041257, 1110880 x 2 alts, a 1112036, 1112034 (as is), a fake 1111977, 1111979 x 2, a strange 1111979 (as is ??), and a few others in the last year, so I think I'm out of parts!!! That ok ? :-) also some red wells, nos lights, oai, etc...
No returns or issues that I'm aware of, and most of the sellers / buyers are on this site. Most of these parts were very nice originals. You all know who you are, but I don't think it's anyone's business who bought what for how mu
"No returns or issues that I'm aware of " ................not as of yet Dean
No returns or issues that I'm aware of, and most of the sellers / buyers are on this site. Most of these parts were very nice originals. You all know who you are, but I don't think it's anyone's business who bought what for how mu
"No returns or issues that I'm aware of " ................not as of yet Dean
say it ain't so Dean
Keep those pics comin,
Sam whatever you need.
Do we have a name to connect yet??? I say
DO WE HAVE A NAME????????????
The suspense .........
Last edited by StickW31; May 14th, 2014 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Spelling
May 14th, 2014, 03:24 PM
#173
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I sell Th 400 restoration decals for 67 thru 70 including 67-68 w-30 and hurst/olds. I have the ability to make the tags with the correct stamps but from the start of the project thats not what I wanted to be known for. I have been asked to make new tags and I have declined.
There are differences between mine and originals but it's difficult for the average person to tell. Eric has one maybe he can give a review.
Others that are sold are clearly different.
There are differences between mine and originals but it's difficult for the average person to tell. Eric has one maybe he can give a review.
Others that are sold are clearly different.
This is not a tag but a decal that goes over the original tag to replicate the original colored painted area. The bottom is "windowed" so that you still see the original stamping on the tag. I have not installed it yet but i will be very soon. I will post a before and after on my build thread when I do it. My tag had almost no paint left and after the transmission case was cleaned all the paint was gone from the tag. This way I keep the original tag and still have the painted area look like it did.
May 14th, 2014, 03:25 PM
#174
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I just finally got it back. Took a long time to get it. But now I have a 257 I paid them $500 for thats probably worth less than $100 to someone just looking for a good running carb since it looks monkey'd with and the numbers look screwy.
May 14th, 2014, 04:16 PM
#176
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May 14th, 2014, 05:13 PM
#179
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That is a factory "TM" coded rear.
Here is a re- stamp for reference. Can you see the difference?
5099b41073a5d73b9d5dd3c17635ecef_zps4f7fd202.jpg
Last edited by 72xw30; May 14th, 2014 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Added picture
May 14th, 2014, 05:22 PM
#180
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X2 looks real to me.
Sam's image of a re-stamp has the smooth finish around the stampings as most seem. The fonts on the original stampings tend to be longer strokes.
This is becoming a bit disheartening, hard to believe that even rear ends are being re-stamped but I guess that makes sense as those are specific to W30s as well. UGH!!!
Sam's image of a re-stamp has the smooth finish around the stampings as most seem. The fonts on the original stampings tend to be longer strokes.
This is becoming a bit disheartening, hard to believe that even rear ends are being re-stamped but I guess that makes sense as those are specific to W30s as well. UGH!!!
May 14th, 2014, 05:27 PM
#181
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X2 looks real to me.
Sam's image of a re-stamp has the smooth finish around the stampings as most seem. The fonts on the original stampings tend to be longer strokes.
This is becoming a bit disheartening, hard to believe that even rear ends are being re-stamped but I guess that makes sense as those are specific to W30s as well. UGH!!!
Sam's image of a re-stamp has the smooth finish around the stampings as most seem. The fonts on the original stampings tend to be longer strokes.
This is becoming a bit disheartening, hard to believe that even rear ends are being re-stamped but I guess that makes sense as those are specific to W30s as well. UGH!!!
The TM stamping on the fake if shorter and fatter.
The big giveaway is where the top lines of the M go down to make a "V".
Look at the size of the "V" compared to the original.
What a joke!
May 14th, 2014, 05:39 PM
#182
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May 14th, 2014, 05:39 PM
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For comparison:
The first pic is my alternator purchased from a member here. The second and third photo's are from my good friend Tim Murphy and are the alternators from his original 69 H/O which has been apart for many years, and an original spare he's had for a few decades.
Tell me what you see? It may be nothing but to me I see one glaring difference! I dont know, maybe thats how they were done back then? Im no expert on this at all so I just dont know?
Pogo69, please post a more clear photo of your stamping so we can compare it to mine as well.
Last edited by WTony; May 15th, 2014 at 04:17 AM.
May 14th, 2014, 05:45 PM
#184
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Tim was also kind enough to send me a photo of his original 69 H/O distributor to share here for comparison with any others that may need to see what a real one looks like.
Original 7029254 photo's to come tomorrow!
Original 7029254 photo's to come tomorrow!
May 14th, 2014, 05:57 PM
#185
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Actually Mike no I don't think they are fake, not all actually
My email to you summed up my feelings and opinion towards your views, your dealings and your attitude re your transactions.
You of course don't have to agree with me , but there is nothing in that email that was false that I sent to you
If you disagree and want to rebut , I await that
My email to you summed up my feelings and opinion towards your views, your dealings and your attitude re your transactions.
You of course don't have to agree with me , but there is nothing in that email that was false that I sent to you
If you disagree and want to rebut , I await that
May 14th, 2014, 06:20 PM
#186
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May 14th, 2014, 06:26 PM
#187
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...and this is important to the people that pursue finding an original part with the correct date code so no one will know that it wasn't original to their car. Who's the con and who's the fool paying loads to be a better con? I simply don't get it when it comes to magic numbers and am glad I'm not on either side of the transactions.
May 14th, 2014, 06:36 PM
#188
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alt
I know I sold you a real 880 for your friend, so I can only assume where you got that alt.
Sent you an email as well. Have an late 69 880, but no 890. Let me know.
Later
May 14th, 2014, 06:37 PM
#189
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...and this is important to the people that pursue finding an original part with the correct date code so no one will know that it wasn't original to their car. Who's the con and who's the fool paying loads to be a better con? I simply don't get it when it comes to magic numbers and am glad I'm not on either side of the transactions.
valid outlook, I guess the factor would be if the owner discloses the non-original parts on his car where applicable thus he wouldn't be a con.
May 14th, 2014, 06:46 PM
#190
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...and this is important to the people that pursue finding an original part with the correct date code so no one will know that it wasn't original to their car. Who's the con and who's the fool paying loads to be a better con? I simply don't get it when it comes to magic numbers and am glad I'm not on either side of the transactions.
It is a hobby and there are many levels to it. Some love to make mods, others like a car for what it is, others like original and the hunt for that one hard to find part, others like to build them and never drive them.... It is all in what you like. When someone takes advantage of others just enjoying the hobby it kills the hobby. If you think it is a con to find an original part so be it but don't use it to justify the fraud of someone knowingly selling a fake part as a real part.
I hope i am not coming across as arguing, I just wanted to post my thoughts on that.
May 14th, 2014, 07:08 PM
#191
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Exactly, this was my part of my message to you mike in the email.
Stop making a mockery out of this.
How do you not find it insulting to advertise parts here where people just found out they got ripped off by some of the same parts.
Stop making a mockery out of this.
How do you not find it insulting to advertise parts here where people just found out they got ripped off by some of the same parts.
May 14th, 2014, 07:16 PM
#192
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May 14th, 2014, 08:40 PM
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Jensenracing77 You hit on a good point I bought my 69 W30 35 years ago and many of the original parts ie carb, it had a Rochester from a 69 429 cobra jet from a Torino? It had the exhaust manifolds off a 70 W30? and It had the original 4 spd until I had a guy rebuild it and later found out he put a 64 Chebby Muncie M21 in it. So I have been trying to find those parts over the years and to find them date specific and correct. Its part of the Hobby and what I think he meant was some people make W cars out of cutlasses and thats ok as long as they dont try and sell them as a W car. I have seen my share of 70 W 30 cars at auctions and other sale sites, sometimes I think they must have made 10 thousand 70 W cars. But lets stay on track with the problems of selling restamped parts as originals. Like someone said it can happen that one would slip by an unsuspecting person or a rookie. but not over and over.
May 15th, 2014, 05:29 AM
#194
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No Eric, I'm not nervous, just sick of the bs. I've bought/sold thousands of dollars in parts with you guys, and then see your snide comments like this.
If you or anyone has a problem with anything I've sold you, pick up the phone and call instead of innuendo on a public board.
Btw, like the 256 I bought from you. How do you know 100% that was legit? Who verified that ? bought it from you, offered it back to you, and resold it. That's typical of the deals I've made. I am not an expert. Just finding and selling parts where I can to finance the hobby - like you.
You all know I didn't make these parts, and have sold very rare legit parts.
If someone comes back to me, I guess we'll be chasing whomever I got the parts from as well. In some cases, that's the very people making the accusations.
btw, Sam list the 3079 above as fake. Does that make it so ? I haven't heard why it's fake and believe it's 100% legit. I know it's history since the 90's.
If you or anyone has a problem with anything I've sold you, pick up the phone and call instead of innuendo on a public board.
Btw, like the 256 I bought from you. How do you know 100% that was legit? Who verified that ? bought it from you, offered it back to you, and resold it. That's typical of the deals I've made. I am not an expert. Just finding and selling parts where I can to finance the hobby - like you.
You all know I didn't make these parts, and have sold very rare legit parts.
If someone comes back to me, I guess we'll be chasing whomever I got the parts from as well. In some cases, that's the very people making the accusations.
btw, Sam list the 3079 above as fake. Does that make it so ? I haven't heard why it's fake and believe it's 100% legit. I know it's history since the 90's.
That's part of the problem no one wants to take ownership if you sell a part and it is deemed fraud its your responsibility . So for a cop-out oh we need to go to the other person. No you as the seller go to the person who you bought it off. Why would the buyer be involved in that its not his fault.
That's a lame solution but does explain a lot of things here
May 15th, 2014, 05:42 AM
#195
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That 256 carb was a service replacement and had a poorly stamped 6. I posted it publicly to get others thoughts on it. I could not tell if it was an 8 or a 6. I had to take the top off to see if it has the piston and primary rods. That was the only way I figured out it was a 6. This was all posted publicly with pictures. I have the emails where I sent you close up pictures and explained very well what it was. I would recommend you not pursue this one because it will backfire on you
I am making NO accusations about you. After the alternator I am checking every part I got from anyone that has numbers on it. I don't know about the carb yet but I WILL check it because my customer deserves the best from me. At this point ALL parts I got from you are proper parts and were what you said.
The above pictures were parts I did not buy and I do not know one way or the other as to if they are real or not or even where they originated from. I do know they were presented to me as real. Maybe that was because this person don't know as I don't.
I am making NO accusations about you. After the alternator I am checking every part I got from anyone that has numbers on it. I don't know about the carb yet but I WILL check it because my customer deserves the best from me. At this point ALL parts I got from you are proper parts and were what you said.
The above pictures were parts I did not buy and I do not know one way or the other as to if they are real or not or even where they originated from. I do know they were presented to me as real. Maybe that was because this person don't know as I don't.
Last edited by jensenracing77; May 15th, 2014 at 05:47 AM.
May 15th, 2014, 05:57 AM
#196
morgan
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For comparison:
The first pic is my alternator purchased from a member here. The second and third photo's are from my good friend Tim Murphy and are the alternators from his original 69 H/O which has been apart for many years, and an original spare he's had for a few decades.
Tell me what you see? It may be nothing but to me I see one glaring difference! I dont know, maybe thats how they were done back then? Im no expert on this at all so I just dont know?
Pogo69, please post a more clear photo of your stamping so we can compare it to mine as well.
The first pic is my alternator purchased from a member here. The second and third photo's are from my good friend Tim Murphy and are the alternators from his original 69 H/O which has been apart for many years, and an original spare he's had for a few decades.
Tell me what you see? It may be nothing but to me I see one glaring difference! I dont know, maybe thats how they were done back then? Im no expert on this at all so I just dont know?
Pogo69, please post a more clear photo of your stamping so we can compare it to mine as well.
but that could just be how it is
Last edited by pogo69; May 15th, 2014 at 06:01 AM.
May 15th, 2014, 08:10 AM
#197
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Mike,
I am sorry for the comments, It was uncalled for. All this has me bummed. Looks like I can be wrong also.
With very highly regarded people doing wrong I think it is understandable that everyone, INCLUDING ME, be suspect till this all passes.
I am sorry for the comments, It was uncalled for. All this has me bummed. Looks like I can be wrong also.
With very highly regarded people doing wrong I think it is understandable that everyone, INCLUDING ME, be suspect till this all passes.
May 15th, 2014, 08:39 AM
#198
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From my experience this one does not look like a re-stamp to me. One would have to grind down the old stamping. Look to the right of the numbers right under the gasket you can see a casting ridge. Would be hard to keep that when grinding down the stamp pad. Also look at the texture of that area. Looks like a casting to me. The 58 is raised a bit. I don't know about that but many of my parts do have a few numbers here and there that are not perfectly aligned. I'll dig up some pictures of my 7040258's and some of my other W parts.
May 15th, 2014, 08:47 AM
#199
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I just buy parts for my cars, so I'm not a seller.
I'd like to comment on the above about putting correct parts back on a car. True, there are levels of restoration, and ideally you want an original car that doesn't need resto. Now, if your original car needs resto, sometimes you have to decide between restoring the part on the car, or replacing with a nicer one from another car, and this is for trim items and such. If the car just is missing the part, then you obviously have to get one from another car, and the correct part is simply the best you can do.
Should you declare it to a buyer? Sure, but it shouldn't lessen the value of the car, unless it's a big item like the engine itself. This will matter more to some people than others. An alternator and a distributor is one thing, the transmission or the heads is another, and the block is a third.
I'd like to comment on the above about putting correct parts back on a car. True, there are levels of restoration, and ideally you want an original car that doesn't need resto. Now, if your original car needs resto, sometimes you have to decide between restoring the part on the car, or replacing with a nicer one from another car, and this is for trim items and such. If the car just is missing the part, then you obviously have to get one from another car, and the correct part is simply the best you can do.
Should you declare it to a buyer? Sure, but it shouldn't lessen the value of the car, unless it's a big item like the engine itself. This will matter more to some people than others. An alternator and a distributor is one thing, the transmission or the heads is another, and the block is a third.
May 15th, 2014, 09:52 AM
#200
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Im not sticking up for anyone or condemning them. Im just posting my personal experiences with members.
I've bought and sold parts with Dean and always good results! Both parties very pleased with the transactions.
I dont remember ever selling anything to Mike. But I know I've purchased 2 items from him. One was a 3.91 posi rear, totally rebuilt and with paperwork. It had no axle code and was never represented as a TO or original W rear.
The other item I just purchased was a nice original 7040253 carb that I sent to have restored. Its by no means a fake or restamp and Im happy with both purchases.
Personally I think the person who is passing these counterfeit parts off as originals needs to come forward or his name needs to be posted because now there's assumptions and its not fair to the assumed party/parties.
I've bought and sold parts with Dean and always good results! Both parties very pleased with the transactions.
I dont remember ever selling anything to Mike. But I know I've purchased 2 items from him. One was a 3.91 posi rear, totally rebuilt and with paperwork. It had no axle code and was never represented as a TO or original W rear.
The other item I just purchased was a nice original 7040253 carb that I sent to have restored. Its by no means a fake or restamp and Im happy with both purchases.
Personally I think the person who is passing these counterfeit parts off as originals needs to come forward or his name needs to be posted because now there's assumptions and its not fair to the assumed party/parties.
