auto_editor

A feature I'm working on [the 2011 Challenger 392] has got me wondering: Why no Olds hot rods?

Sure, Olds cars have been made INTO hot rods, but other than the Shelby Series 1 and its Olds Aurora motor, why didn't/hasn't anyone high-profile utilized Olds motors in performance/specialty production?

There are more Ford flatheads and Chevy small blocks in "specialty" use than most car companies have built production engines, period. There are plenty of hemi (small h) Fire Power and Cadillac 331s, too, in interesting places like Allards and Muntz Jets.

[And that doesn't even cover THE product-placement of the century, Ford V8s in all "real" Shelbys.]

SO, if Oldsmobile was known for its great engines, why aren't they spoken of at least as often as any of the other engines above? Were they too heavy? Too complicated? Too "production-minded"?

At least one inquiring mind (mine) wants to know...

Drew

Coltonis

Well there was Hurst which used Oldsmobile cars... That would be analogous to Shelby using Mustangs. I think the last year Hurst did a special version was 73-74ish though (-not sure-)...

No body recently that I know of utilized Olds engines... I'm no expert though...

Its a good question, kinda curious myself.

w-30dreamin

Oldsmobile engines seem pretty popular among jet boats, and how about the olds drce (drag race competition engine)?

Jaybird

Drew: Since you are an automotive editor... Can you drop the name Oldsmobile, Cutlass, 442, Rocket 88, 425, 455 or something like that in one of your articles? You could post a link for us.
Just askin'.

Jaybird

joe_padavano

The DRCE is a big block Chevy, despite the Oldsmobile logo on the valve covers.

joe_padavano

Drew,

The first gen Olds engines were used in sports cars and racers. The Olds version of the aluminum 215 was the basis for the Repco Formula 1 motor. As noted, many Olds motors were OEM-installed in jet boats. Shelby used Ford motors in the original Cobras because the then-new 260 was the smallest mass-produced American V8 available at the time.

Hey, aren't YOU supposed to be the automotive editor?

joe_padavano

By the way, pick up the latest issue of Hot Rod for a story on the rests of an Olds-powered off-road racer. Also Google the Cro-Sal CanAm team and their aluminum block Olds motors.

TK-65

Why didnt??? Does this car look familiar? Are these guys famous enough? Read whats on the door.





The original Olds Rocket engine was a drag strip champion, used by tons of racers. Most people forget how many Oldsmobile engines were on the strip in the 50s and early 60s.

Aceshigh

I think most people today look at the muscle car era of the mid to late 60's through early 70's
IMO ....The 50's is going back a stretch for most people not nearing retirement status.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=77915

AJ Foyt has a history with my wife's Uncle > Ronnie Kaplan
who was a legendary race car builder in the 50's , 60's, and 70's teaming up with Roger Penske.
He also ran a race team designing the SCCA's Trans Am Javelins.......etc etc. He's in his upper 80's now.
We see them every holiday. They live just outside of Chicago still.

It's amazing he's got a book written about his accomplishments, and he almost died in a 50's
NASCAR (iirc) race where he hit a wall, and it cut his throat open. He's nearing 90!!!! Just amazing.

TK-65

Thats right, todays generation has no clue what happened last week, who the president was 10 years ago, or where their last text message went. Why would I think they would care what was going on in hot rodding 50 years ago. Silly me.

Whats that say about the original poster, who asked why no one used an Olds power plant in their hot rod/race car.

TK-65

Oldsguy

Wow! That blown engine in the second photo is nuts! I had never seen that one before. Take a little car and put one of the biggest engines you could find in it, then for icing on the cake, supercharge it! That is really cool.

TK-65

Notice where the driver of the Henry J is sitting in the first pic. Way back...

joe_padavano

I think you guys are missing the point of the question a little, unfortunately. Drag racers have used motors from every manufacturer and modified them. You can find SBCs and Pontiac slant fours in Top Fuel cars, for example. I think Drew's question was more about the use of Olds motors in "production" cars (if one can call a Cobra a "production" car). Yes, Olds directly and indirectly provided engines and parts to racers - the aluminum 350 and 455 CanAm motors I mentioned are prime examples - but for each one of these Olds examples there are a hundred or a thousand Chevy and Ford examples.

Face it, Olds production was a small fraction of Chevy and Ford production in most years (the late 70s being the notable exceptions, when Olds was no. 3 in annual production). There were about 1/10 as many 442s made as GTOs, for example. It's the classic chicken-and-egg problem. Chevy and Ford motors are popular, so there is a large aftermarket supply of parts, so more people use them, making them more popular.

ToBiN!

funny question because in my research, as another poster mentioned, the thing to have in any 50's car was an olds powerplant. My buddy picked up a 50Merc custom that already had an olds powerplant from the 50's. When I asked "why olds?" He said that Olds were the "bees knees" of engines to have in a custom and some of the most desired engines for a swap into anything cause they produced great power.

In discovering this I have considered moving the Olds 350 I just built into my 33 Chevy Master. I have a "budget LS1" sitting down at the machine shop that will be done sometime and was thinking of putting that LS1 in my Cutlass, then moving the Olds 350 into the 33 to make the 33 correct for the 40-50's time erra. but then this would make my Olds a non numbers matching and just another fun car with an LS1 in it.

I think I will just keep the Olds with the Olds, and maybe put the LS1 into the 33 Chev for drive ability.

joe_padavano

Except for the fact that the Olds 350 didn't exist in the 1950s. You are thinking of the first gen Olds Rocket V8 built from 1949-64. The second gen motors (including the 350) were built from 1964-1990. Sell the LS, keep the 350 in the Cutlass, and get a 371 or 394 for the street rod.

auto_editor

Yes, it's more that I can find instances when--as mentioned above--an Oldsmobile engine was used in this or that, but nothing about them being used consistently or being singled out as the "go-to" motor for high-performance applications.

What Mr. Padavano said about widely-used motors being used widely (like Ford and Chevy V8s) makes sense, but even rare engines from far-flung firms--like Lincoln V12s--seem more common than anything by Olds.

There's barely any mention of Olds in connection with 1950s and 1960s hot rod-building, for instance, something I didn't expect considering the fame of the "Rocket" V8. It's especially true when you find that Cadillac engines--which had to be rarer than Olds ones--made regular appearances (though much of that probably reflects the fact that they were the biggest/most powerful at the time).

I'm working on a feature comparing my Angie with what's available today, in terms of the number of seats, cargo space, overall size, etc. that she has and that you can't find her stats in any one vehicle today. I promise I'll make as many Olds references as possible... ]

Jamesbo

You're gonna come up short on cup holders.

Oldsguy

I don't know about that. I've spent some time over at the HAMB and think that they reflect the 50's 60's hot rod scene fairly well. After the Ford Flathead I think the Buick nail head, the Olds original V8 and the Cadillac are running close second place in a three way tie. If someone were to actually read all the posts referring to engine use and compile the numbers (which would be a ridiculously labor intensive effort) they might come up with some different statistics but I don't think they would not be off by much.

TK-65

A Lincoln V12 is more common than an original Rocket Olds? Find me more pics with V12 powered hot rods than the Olds powered cars I posted. Its not that hard to find out that Olds powered a LOT of gassers and dragsters, and as the link below describes, National Champions. An Olds person should know this stuff.

http://www.cacklefest.com/Albertson.shtml

TK-65

More
http://www.cacklefest.com/Stearns.shtml

http://www.cacklefest.com/Safford.shtml

1958 US Nationals Winner