Vega

Not really a "vs", not really a comparison, just a neat discussion. I figured itd be nice to have a little chat about them since all three manufacturers have new, modern motors that are interpretations of their classic counterparts. All three are great motors, the LS and the Hemi are very under-cammed from the factory and can see upwards of 70-80hp gains from a simple cam swap. Havent heard much about cam swaps on the Coyote 5.0 since its still a bit new for that but it'll be interesting to see

Maybe some input from people who have retrofitted their older cars with newer motors? Older GMs with LS motors, older Mopars with Hemis (new version), older Fords with Coyotes?

DeltaPace77

Of the three, the Ford 5.0's the most sophisticated DOHC design, but physically large. Ford did an excellant job on this engine design, covering every little detail. The Chysler pushrod Hemi's pretty decent, but more of a name for marketing, as really not the same design as in the past. Truth is, most DOHC engines have been true hemispherical head designs for years. GM catches lots of flack for having to go with large displacements to be competitive HP wise. These may look like standard small blocks, but their design would have been mega buck race engines, not that long ago. I have a late model LS7 Vette, and this things something else. 505 net HP, 470 ft/lbs, compact, and only 440 lbs. Heads flow 360 cfm intake, and car gets 25-26 mpg highway all day long. Guess you can see why so many are doing swaps.

Vega

Yeah, I for sure gotta give Ford props on their new 5.0, it has a lot of great engineering in it and has to be just scratching the surface on its potential, i cant wait to see them start stroking those things. The new Hemis are great but i agree, its all pretty much a trademark name, has very very very little in common with the "real" hemis. I always felt like people bashing the LS motors for being bigger was cheap, i mean yeah some are bigger but its the other company's loss for not making one as big. Or its the builder's loss for not making his motor as big. Besides, compare the LS1 to the 5.7 hemi, they're really about the same and they're the same size. Then compare the 6.1 hemi to the LS3, they're about the same size and again, very equally matched. Its kinda funny though how equal it all is and yet the LS platform is how many years old? Its already a rather dated design and its taken this long for the other manufacturers to finally keep up, meanwhile GM is already R&Ding their next generation small block. Its a great time to be a GM fan haha

DeltaPace77

Yea, guess what I was saying, is although LS's are bigger on the inside, they're smaller, lighter on the outside, make lot's of torque, and top notch fuel efficiency. My LS7 car pulls to it's 7000 rpm redline like an angry cat. You should hear this thing on track days. Makes you wonder who's calling what more advanced technology lately, with GM putting together packages like that. If Oldsmobile was still selling V8 cars, you know darn well it would be an LS under the hood.

Vega

For sure, LS motors are very mean, i like the bigger cubes for more torque, torque is my best friend haha. They rev high, get great mileage, and its great to have something so reliable, no worries about oiling issues or cooling issues or structural integrity. I love the reliability, cant beat it, and a 6-bolt block? Good luck busting that. Personally i always hated the sound of LS motors through stock manifolds though, except LS7s, they have a great sound no matter what, i think its the increased cubes that makes it sound better. But the LS1s and especially the LS2s i always thought sounded kinda tinny through manifolds. They do sound great however with a cam and some headers though! I was pleasantly surprised recently when i found out that the newer Shelby car (kind of a modern rehash of the 60s AC Cobra) used a supercharged Olds V6, haha, i never knew that, i guess even Carol Shelby finally had to recognize the amazing engine prowess that is Olds haha

Also a really cool fact that i just learned. The LS7 actually has the same bore as an Olds 455, so if you stroke it out from 4.00 (its stock stroke) to 4.125 you get an LS motor with the exact deminsions of an Olds 455! How cool is that? haha. I bet its about the same physical size too. Itd be like a modern Olds 455 with no oiling worries, structural worries, no worries about limiting the RPMs when you shift, and best of all modern heads that get AMAZING flow! And all at mid-20s on MPG, cant beat that :-)

DeltaPace77

"Vega", you should spend some time on the Corvette Forum, as you seem to know more about my engine than I do. LS engines sound different, as the 4,7 firing order's reversed from earlier GM V8's. LS7 exhaust manifolds are actually SS tubular shorty headers. I toured the GM Wixom MI special engine build plant, and held this stuff in my hands. Met my engines builder(Sally), as her name tags under the hood. Believe she was the only woman there, but she retired with another worker and married him. Motor's built right, as I run it pretty hard.

Vega

Ah! That might explain why i always thought the LS7s sounded good but not the LS1/2/3s, they do sound good with headers. And thanks, maybe i should poke around there some, i love the LS engines, im on Camaro5 but i havent been really active on there in a while, theres lots and lots of idiots on there who are just there to argue, and will argue against solid facts haha, it gets pretty silly sometimes Yeah you can beat the hell out of an LS motor, ive never seen one blown in any way. Never seen a dropped valve, broken rod, any of that. The worst ive ever heard was a spun bearing and that i only heard once. Ive seen a lot of transmissions get completely destroyed before the motor got a scratch on it, seen videos of the entire front half of a transmission getting decimated, bellhousing and all! haha, its pretty amazing

gearheads78

The new 5.0 loves boost. There is a shop here just did one. See below. They since tried to up the boost and finally broke piston. In the form below it was running 9's. New motor going together with Oliver rods and forged pistons

2011 5.0 Bone Stock motor
3.6 KB Polished blower kit
Monoblade TB
1 7/8 Headers, Full 3 inch exhaust..Magnaflow Street mufflers (quiet ones)
Stock Auto Tranny, Stock Convertor

And the key, HPP Custom E85 tuning..to tie it all together. Made a few pulls with low timing the other night just to see the gains from the TB, and the car ended up making...

872rwhp, 740rwtq! I am impressed more and more with these new 5.0 motors, they love boost just as much, if not more than the old 4.6's! Manny ended up just doing a few pulls after work, so it wasn't fully turned up. I know he is looking for 900 to 950rw out the the stock motor once he completes the tuning process and plays around with the setup. The stock auto tranny is still going strong, and hasn't missed a beats. And from what Manny says, the new TB and tuning changes makes the car drive smoother than a new Caddy

Vega

0_0 Holy crap! Those are awesome numbers. And i love the E85 tuning, ive always been big into E85 although it seems like most people swear against it. Lots of people confuse properties of Ethanol with Methonal and thing Ethanol is some big evil corrosive fuel, stupid propoganda lol. Those are some crazy awesome numbers, id love to get my hands on one of those!

droptopron

On the Car Show one of the guys made a good point about this. They ran a ZR1 vs a Ferrari on a road course and the Vette won. One of the other guys was making the point that the Ferrari had a much smaller engine and was a technological tour de force and the guy asked what does it matter if they run the same?

Vega

x2

DeltaPace77

Don't know if any of you guys saw this, but Holley puts on an annual LS Fest, that includes an LS engine swap contest. Crew of guys did it in like 25 minutes on a 71' Cutlass. You should've seen these guys, as had the whole front clip off in a couple minutes. Had to drive the car around for a couple hours to prove it was right, and got to keep everything. It was the 2010 event, and believe it was on Horsepower TV.