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Driving a classic muscle car - different style needed?

Old June 10th, 2019, 01:44 PM
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Driving a classic muscle car - different style needed?

Greetings,

I picked up a restored '69 442 earlier this year and love everything about the car except for one thing - I get a bit of "shudder/chatter" when taking off in 1st (and reverse). I did a lot of research on "clutch chatter" and even had my tranny and motor mounts replaced on the car but my shop is telling me that they think it's simply my driving style that's the issue. They tell me that on these old cars you have to add more throttle when engaging the clutch and if I don't there will be a bit of shudder. Also the fact that it has a heavy clutch pressure plate probably plays a role.

This is the only classic car that I've ever driven and I'm using to engaging the clutch with little rpm when leaving the line.

Does this make sense for those of you who are experienced? Do you really need to give it more gas when leaving the line in first than you would with a later model vehicle?
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Old June 10th, 2019, 01:53 PM
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You may need to give it just a bit more gas, depending on the power of your motor, and your rear gears. That being said, clutch chatter is not normal on these cars. Your clutch chatter may be due to the pressure plate not engaging evenly, an unevenly worn disc, or the surface of the flywheel. Most likely the pressure plate.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 02:16 PM
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You may need to get used to what the car wants to get it going. While chatter can be caused by an oil leak contaminating the disc, not adjusted properly, a bad pressure plate, burnt flywheel, or as you stated your driving habits.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 02:59 PM
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Is the rear of the car stock height ? If it has been raised, pinion angle changes can induce chatter from a stop.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 03:29 PM
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The car is stock height:



Okay, maybe I should take a step back from calling it "chatter" so as not to pre-diagnose this in case that's not what it actually is. It's a slight "shake" or "shudder" when engaging the clutch in first. It doesn't affect driveability but it's just annoying when expecting a smooth ride.

On late model cars when I drive off I'll bring the clutch to the point of engagement and then add enough gas to get it underway smoothly. When driving these older cars are y'all add more gas off the line than you would say a late model vette?
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Old June 10th, 2019, 03:37 PM
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Try starting out with more gas and see if it improves, could need clutch adjustment.
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Old June 10th, 2019, 04:20 PM
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If it's been like this for awhile, a new clutch and resurfaced flywheel is probably in order.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 09:31 AM
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May be able to see through dust cover hole on bottom of bellhousing. Have someone hit the clutch and look at the flywheel and clutch.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chenner View Post
Greetings,

I picked up a restored '69 442 earlier this year and love everything about the car except for one thing - I get a bit of "shudder/chatter" when taking off in 1st (and reverse).
It's funny but I get that "chatter" or "shudder" in reverse but not in first. Makes no sense since the first and reverse gear ratios of the M20 are very close
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Old June 13th, 2019, 10:17 AM
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Appreciate all the replies guys. Just got the car back and so far so good if I leave the line with more gas.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by chenner View Post
Appreciate all the replies guys. Just got the car back and so far so good if I leave the line with more gas.
Shouldn't really be necessary to rev it up too much to get it off the line smoothly. Every manual transmission V-8 car that I've owned would move from a dead stop in first at an idle. What RPM were/are you bringing it out at?
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Old June 13th, 2019, 05:02 PM
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That's a really nice looking ride! Are those 14" on the front and 15" on the back? Maybe just the camera angle but looks like different size wheels.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 05:04 PM
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IMO Just put a Center Force clutch assembly
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Old June 14th, 2019, 07:21 AM
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I don't really look at the tach but just bring up the revs as needed until it "overrides" the shudder. Seems to work when I make an effort to do it.
I definitely can't leave the line like I did in my C7.
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Old June 14th, 2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
That's a really nice looking ride! Are those 14" on the front and 15" on the back? Maybe just the camera angle but looks like different size wheels.
Thanks but it must be the picture. They are 15" all around.
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Old June 14th, 2019, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by alain View Post
IMO Just put a Center Force clutch assembly
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That's what's in the car right now actually.
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Old June 14th, 2019, 07:42 AM
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How about the trow out bearing?Is it new?
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Old June 14th, 2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by allyolds68 View Post
It's funny but I get that "chatter" or "shudder" in reverse but not in first. Makes no sense since the first and reverse gear ratios of the M20 are very close
I'd be looking at how the rear axle is mounted (i.e., rotted rubber bushings? No-Hop bars?) and ride-height. If I didn't see anything there, I'd be looking at the passenger-side engine mount.
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Old June 15th, 2019, 08:45 PM
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Do you know exactly what clutch disc is in there? People will buy all types of performance clutches, and some will have this issue. If the disc is solid with no springs, you will have chatter, also some disc materials will induce chatter. Unless there is a ton of modifications on this vehicles engine, as stock disc will be more than adequate.
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Old June 16th, 2019, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 72442conv View Post
Do you know exactly what clutch disc is in there? People will buy all types of performance clutches, and some will have this issue. If the disc is solid with no springs, you will have chatter, also some disc materials will induce chatter. Unless there is a ton of modifications on this vehicles engine, as stock disc will be more than adequate.
This is the type of clutch that's in the car: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctf-df148552

My shop has looked over the entire car and thinks that it's the strong pressure plate that wants to grab when I'm engaging the clutch.
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Old June 16th, 2019, 09:02 AM
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When the clutch was replaced, was the pilot bearing in the crank also replaced?
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Old June 16th, 2019, 09:22 PM
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Did the shop check the U joints?
It might sound stupid but I have had a u joint that showed no play give chatter like feed back.
It was not your typical worn U joint clatter or feed back.
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