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Are classic car dealers ruining the market for buyers?

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Are classic car dealers ruining the market for buyers?

Old March 23rd, 2019, 08:09 PM
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Are classic car dealers ruining the market for buyers?

Seems like the amount of classic car dealers or showrooms has blew up over the last year or two. And with them the prices. But it seems like they dont move much inventory. I'm looking for a pretty specific car and have followed the market pretty well for the last year but the prices have made a big jump with no sales to back it. Maybe I'm just being a cheap skate. What do you guys think?
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Old March 23rd, 2019, 08:43 PM
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Without reading anything more than your post title, my answer is a definitive h$!! yes. These cars were junkyard fodder before the "classic craze" began.
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Old March 23rd, 2019, 08:44 PM
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I agree. I've seen specific cars I like on E-bay. Some have been on there for a long time. The recent incorrect W-30 that sold for $137,000 may cause other cars to be overpriced. Another sad thing is people are afraid to drive their "Rare" cars such as Boss 429's, GSX or anything Hemi. So they sit in garages like stocks and bonds. I hope you find a bargain, good luck.
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Old March 23rd, 2019, 10:01 PM
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Ahhhh spring has sprung and along with it the annual increase in collector car prices just in time for car show season.
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Old March 23rd, 2019, 10:01 PM
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I'm not looking for the steal of the decade I just can't give nearly double this year over last with no sales history. I made a solid above market value on a car last month that got denied because the owner felt their car was priced in line with others. Others that have been sitting in a showroom for sale for months now. Just frustrating I guess.
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Old March 23rd, 2019, 10:08 PM
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Those serious about selling eventually may come around, Leave your number with the owner to call if he changes his/her mind.
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Old March 23rd, 2019, 10:18 PM
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I put my 70 Cutlass SX in a show room and sold for $20 in my pocket. Not knowing what they got for the car but I got what I wanted.

100 1060
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Old March 23rd, 2019, 11:10 PM
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I'm from Austria and I was searching for more than a year for a 1973 Chevy Nova or Olds Omega.

I can confirm that as well. If you are outside from the US, than they could be of good help for shipping ans so on. but the price-tag they put on for all this is outrageous.

So I stopped searching with car dealers and did it myself with craigslist - which unfortunately became also a challenge! craigslist does block non US residents to get in contact with the seller. but there a some fellow forum member's which help in this situation.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 02:34 AM
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Simple economics, the prices are what the market will bear.
Collector cars, and just about anything that has a similar following, go through cycles of prices going up and diving again.
However there will only be fewer cars available as time takes its toll, so the cars left will become more valuable as rarity becomes a factor.

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Old March 24th, 2019, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rustyroger View Post
Simple economics, the prices are what the market will bear.
Collector cars, and just about anything that has a similar following, go through cycles of prices going up and diving again.
However there will only be fewer cars available as time takes its toll, so the cars left will become more valuable as rarity becomes a factor.

Roger.
Or until we all pass on and nobody wants our cars anymore and then their worth declines much like the model A's and such of the 30s and 40s
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Old March 24th, 2019, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by scrappie View Post
or until we all pass on and nobody wants our cars anymore and then their worth declines much like the model a's and such of the 30s and 40s

x 2

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Old March 24th, 2019, 05:16 AM
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These auction houses are pushing up the prices with people with deep pockets and shallow minds.

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Old March 24th, 2019, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by twin74s View Post
And with them the prices. But it seems like they dont move much inventory.

That almost sounds like like some of the sellers on this site with ridiculous numbers they put on parts!
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Old March 24th, 2019, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 59-59-59 View Post



That almost sounds like like some of the sellers on this site with ridiculous numbers they put on parts!
And then they want you to pay paypal friends and family! I'm like, son, you ain't my friend after that epic rogering you just gave me.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 08:13 AM
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Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. This is a perfect example here. These cars have been for sale for months a couple of them almost a year now. The one in Dallas was offered as an auction but only got to $16,301 reserve not met, half what they're asking. That should be a clear sign along with sales history that they're overpriced.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 10:11 AM
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Auctions like Barrett-Jackson, Mecum, etc. and "Classic Car dealers" give "average Joe's" an inflated value of their cars. This can translate also to prices of parts. Visions of huge profits is another factor. Prices also rise and wane with the economy. If we are to blame only one group, it would be the "buyers" because they paid a bizarre price.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 10:11 AM
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JMO but the Rallye 350 is a unique bird due to the fact of the color options........there are none so you better like yellow and black. I still like them but it definitely limits the market for that car.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 10:14 AM
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A guy that I know, sold his '68 SS396 Camaro clone with a 454 stroker, to a dealer last year for $35k, they had it advertised @ $59k. Ridiculous. Ebay seems to have more dealers than regular folk selling their cars. All overpriced.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 1969w3155 View Post
A guy that I know, sold his '68 SS396 Camaro clone with a 454 stroker, to a dealer last year for $35k, they had it advertised @ $59k. Ridiculous. Ebay seems to have more dealers than regular folk selling their cars. All overpriced.
The dealer would have never bought it if they didn't think there was a way to turn it for a profit. As far as asking price goes, its just that, you have to start somewhere. As time goes by if the car does not sell, the price keeps going lower until it does.

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Old March 24th, 2019, 11:42 AM
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I’ve been looking at classic cars off and on . Yes the market has made the prices go up....for now. I check Craigslist now and again. I started out looking at Rallye 350s first. Passed on 1 because I thought he was asking too much. He wanted 26k . The other person had a nice one but wanted 16k with a non original drive train. Finally found mine on CL for a lot less(12k) in very nice shape . That was 3 years ago . Prices have gone up since then. I’m just glad I’m not buying, but there are still deals around if you look and are patient.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 12:24 PM
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Several times I've seen a car sell on an popular on-line auction site. A week later, it shows up again from a dealer with a $20K mark-up.
Now I check the box for private sellers in an attempt to shrink the field. Sometimes dealer listings still show up.
One significant recession and most of the cars will end back up in private hands, and the cycle will start again.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 01:54 PM
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What you need to do is look at the completed listings on Ebay, the ones in green, that is an average market value on ebay. Again an asking price is not market value.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
What you need to do is look at the completed listings on Ebay, the ones in green, that is an average market value on ebay. Again an asking price is not market value.
I have and follow bring a trailer.com also. the highest sale was a 4 SPD rallye on bat that sold for $19,400 then a couple months later the car sold on Ebay for $16,500
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Old March 24th, 2019, 05:18 PM
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The dealer would have never bought it if they didn't think there was a way to turn it for a profit. As far as asking price goes, its just that, you have to start somewhere. As time goes by if the car does not sell, the price keeps going lower until it does.
You are right, but they are flippers and drive the market up. The markup is ridiculous on so many of them.
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Old March 24th, 2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 1969w3155 View Post
You are right, but they are flippers and drive the market up. The markup is ridiculous on so many of them.
They are not driving the market up, the people that buy are.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 06:03 AM
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Dealers suck so much. I've got no issue with a little profit, but there is no reason to buy a car for X, have it on your lot for a week, then sell it for 2X. You moved a car and parked it....how is that worth 20 grand?
I don't think we need government regulation; but I wish they'd be decent.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 06:30 AM
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I learned a lot in 2018 shopping for my 68 442. I looked at classic car dealers first and later came to realize that they inflate the price as a consignor to $10k over what the private seller wants. And every dealer lies through their teeth about whatís wrong with the car or they just say they know very little about the car. They get away with this because one dealer told me that 95% of his sales are through the internet and often to Europe. So they sell these cars sight unseen. In the year since I eventually found my car, Iíve kept an eye on the 4 cars I was seriously considering and three are still for sale but the price has crept down but only a little.
Private sellers direct are the way to go. They are more appropriately priced, and youíll get much more honestly from the seller,
I recommend to look at classic car dealers, private, and eBay and make a long list. Then watch them and see what goes and what doesnít. Familiarize yourself with the overall market and then youíll know what the cars are really worth.
If you must buy a car sight unseen, use an unbiased car inspection service like ďRoad ReadyĒ they saved me from making bad purchases twice.
And yes itís obvious that the TV car auctions are priced unreasonably. Its just people with too much money being hypnotized by a shiner paint job. I just had a long time friend that I havenít seen since I got active in this, who is a life long classic car collector tell me how much his cars are worth based on these TV auctions. I respect his knowledge and couldnít even politely tell him how out of touch he is. If he gets around to trying to sell one of his cars, heíll be disappointed but will have to come back to reality. óBilly
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Old March 25th, 2019, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Billyaxe View Post
I learned a lot in 2018 shopping for my 68 442. I looked at classic car dealers first and later came to realize that they inflate the price as a consignor to $10k over what the private seller wants. And every dealer lies through their teeth about whatís wrong with the car or they just say they know very little about the car. They get away with this because one dealer told me that 95% of his sales are through the internet and often to Europe. So they sell these cars sight unseen. In the year since I eventually found my car, Iíve kept an eye on the 4 cars I was seriously considering and three are still for sale but the price has crept down but only a little.
Private sellers direct are the way to go. They are more appropriately priced, and youíll get much more honestly from the seller,
I recommend to look at classic car dealers, private, and eBay and make a long list. Then watch them and see what goes and what doesnít. Familiarize yourself with the overall market and then youíll know what the cars are really worth.
If you must buy a car sight unseen, use an unbiased car inspection service like ďRoad ReadyĒ they saved me from making bad purchases twice.
And yes itís obvious that the TV car auctions are priced unreasonably. Its just people with too much money being hypnotized by a shiner paint job. I just had a long time friend that I havenít seen since I got active in this, who is a life long classic car collector tell me how much his cars are worth based on these TV auctions. I respect his knowledge and couldnít even politely tell him how out of touch he is. If he gets around to trying to sell one of his cars, heíll be disappointed but will have to come back to reality. óBilly
Very well put Billy. I have been following sales for about a year now and have a feel for what the market is one them. I just hate to see these cars sitting in a showroom forever just because some dealer told someone they could get them so dreamed up price. I'll find the car I want at a price i feel good about giving someday. Until then I'll just laugh at the huge price tags.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 07:11 AM
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I kept this at my desk when I was a scum sucking used car salesman. While it may not be yesterday, the point is that your not the only one looking at a particular car because there is an a$$ for every seat.

On a side note, why is it that car dealers are the only ones people complain about? Look at everything you buy from nuts and bolts (which can be marked up over 10x cost, to furniture (3x), food (from less than 1x to many times), electronics (large percentage), cloths, etc... and say here, just take my money.

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Old March 25th, 2019, 07:12 AM
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I have seen some pretty high prices on cars recently.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 07:48 AM
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This dealer is local to me. Nice place with 4 buildings that recently expanded. They've been in business 25 years and seem to do quite well. I thought this 61 Dynamic 88 was a little overpriced though. https://fastlanecars.com/vehicles/20...88-convertible

This 1962 98 Is just as nice as the pictures show and it is 20K. Is that too much for this car? https://fastlanecars.com/vehicles/19...-oldsmobile-98

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Old March 25th, 2019, 09:22 AM
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Imo, both are priced to high. 4 doors are a hard sell. 1961 Dynamic convertibles are rare and will sell fast, if priced right. The market for full sized is limited. Someone with 40K has a lot of choices.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 09:36 AM
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I'd say both of those are 25% higher than their worth.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 09:43 AM
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Dealer prices are often ridiculously high, especially when you zero in on the photos and see a lot of lipstick on the pig. Sometimes though there are real gems that may justify the high price. Dealers are not the whole problem though, most consignment setups take what the seller wants and add a markup and often what the seller wants is crazy high - that is the BJ Mecum factor. What amazes me is that some dealers are willing to sit on these overpriced pigs for a long time which has to hurt their overhead.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Koda View Post
Dealers suck so much. I've got no issue with a little profit, but there is no reason to buy a car for X, have it on your lot for a week, then sell it for 2X. You moved a car and parked it....how is that worth 20 grand?
I don't think we need government regulation; but I wish they'd be decent.
Any valid reason a business run for profit shouldn't maximise its return on investment?. A car dealers lot is a business, as is a bank, a supermarket, or a diner. Marking a car up 20k isn't wrong unless the car is misrepresented.

Roger.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rustyroger View Post
Any valid reason a business run for profit shouldn't maximise its return on investment?. A car dealers lot is a business, as is a bank, a supermarket, or a diner. Marking a car up 20k isn't wrong unless the car is misrepresented.

Roger.
Which from what I've seen in most of the ads lately, they are exactly that. I swear they dont even look at the cars when they write descriptions.
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Old March 25th, 2019, 06:09 PM
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I see a bunch of stuff like this:

75% of the engine freshly painted because it was done in place
Liberal use of ArmorAll in the engine bay
Liberal use of ArmorAll in the interior
Silver painted exhaust pipe and muffler
Flat black spray can painted underside
Brand new trunk mat so you can't see the trunk floor
Tire shine
Vacuum lines in the carpet
Aftermarket wheels that turn it into a resto-mod
Liquid spray-on wax

I also love:
No visible rust, or I can't find any rust
Frame off restoration (even if it is a unibody)
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Old March 26th, 2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rustyroger View Post
Any valid reason a business run for profit shouldn't maximise its return on investment?. A car dealers lot is a business, as is a bank, a supermarket, or a diner. Marking a car up 20k isn't wrong unless the car is misrepresented.

Roger.
I'm not sure common decency is a valid reason anymore, but, other than that, you'll get more business with a non-gouging price model.
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Old March 26th, 2019, 11:51 AM
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I don't understand why people bitch and complain about this all the time. Seller has a right to ask for what ever they want, and buyer has a right not to buy if they don't like it. Stop buying and price will drop.
These cars are getting harder to find, they don't make them anymore, they are getting more popular and prices reflect that. This is the way capitalism works, demand drives the prices not sellers, it's a free market.

Not only that, but prices of everything have been driven up due to inflation. Gallon of milk cost 2x as much as it did few years ago, have you guys checked the prices of new cars?? I paid around $35K cash for my 2000 GMC Sierra fully loaded with all bells and whistles that dealer could offer, same car would be $70K today. I know a lot of you remember 1985 when you could buy one of these classic cars for $500.....FYI that was 34 years ago (damn I'm getting old).

I would never buy a classic from a car dealer and I would NEVER finance a classic. My advice to a potential buyer that's looking to get into a classic car is save your money and look on Craigslist, Offer Up, Facebook Marketplace etc. Forums, such as this one, tend have prices that are more realistic, but not always.

Cash talks. I've bought cars that were listed much higher than what I paid. When I flash a wad of cash, things change quickly. Still plenty of inexpensive good cars out there, just gotta look. Don't walk into a dealership and expect to get a good deal, don't base the prices by watching auction shows.

Personally I'm happy that value of my cars is going up. I'm not planning on selling any of them, but the fact that I could get $50-$60k for my 1970 Chevelle SS if I needed to sell it (God forbid) makes me feel great. JMO.

Last edited by 70cutty; March 26th, 2019 at 04:34 PM.
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Old March 27th, 2019, 04:51 AM
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Iím not calling anyone bad guy for inflating prices or dealers who charge too much, itís all part of the game. They have every right to get as much money as they can.
So really the point of this conversation is to educate us on whatís going on out there.

We may may be able to establish that there are two prices for your car.
1. The educated buyer. They will shop private sellers.
2. The uneducated buyer. They didnít do any research or have disposable income and will buy from the big auction companies or classsic car dealers.

óBilly
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