mrolds69

I want to warn anybody who is looking at the light green W32 on ebay that it is a clone. I looked that car over very carefully at the Nats in PA a few years ago, and I was seriously interested in buying it. I judge for the OCA, and I have excellent knowledge of 69's.The owner at that time was VERY evasive answering my questions, he just kept telling me it's real, it was on a TV show, it's won awards from the OCA, etc. When I looked at it, it did not have the right rear end. I asked him about it...it was blown and changed. It has disc brakes, but SSI wheels for disc brakes weren't available in 69. It has a vinyl roof, extra chrome around the windows, and the extra lighting package (you can see the light over the delete plate in the pic). Weirdly, if you look at the seat belt retractors, they are the optional type with the ***** on them. It also has a radio delete, does that make sense to anybody here? Why would somebody order all those weird options on a W32? The owner said the paint was all original, but it has no trunk stripes. The one thing I saw that told me it definitely wasn't a W32, I refused to tell the owner. He kept asking me to tell him, and I refused! There is absolutely no documentation for that car. Dude is telling me the OCA knows it's a W32, that's not true! The OCA does not document W or Hurst cars to my knowledge. Anyways...be wary of this one...very wary!

66400

[QUOTE= It has disc brakes, but SSI wheels for disc brakes weren't available in 69. QUOTE]
In 69 disc brakes were availalbe with SSI wheels.

Henry

wmachine

[quote=66400;413053]To clarify, starting in April 1969, SSI wheels that fit disc brakes ( wheel # 810) became available.

mrolds69

Yup, I learn something everyday! I never knew that, now I see there was a small window they offered them. Thanks for letting me know.

wmachine

With all due respect, you have said nothing that proves it is a clone. And as far as the seller goes, there is nothing in the ad to prove that it is. The data plate info (unknown at this point) could prove that it is not a W32, but can't prove it is.
The SSIs that are on the car now are reproductions, so that means nothing.
The "extra chrome around the windows" is because it is a Sports Coupe (B-pillared car). The inclusion of any available option means nothing as far as any authenticity. Yes, it is missing stripes on the trunk, but that does nothing more that raise suspicions.
I'm far from convinced that is it a real W32, but the facts speak for themselves.

Diego

Is this the car that used to be in Ohio with another two W-32s?

Also, some cars were equipped funny, which has nothing to do with an engine package. Kinda like my friend's 421 HO Pontiac Bonneville with Tripower and 4-speed . . . and no power steering.

66-3X2 442

This could very well be the car I sold to a buddy in Ohio. He then sold it to the guy in Ohio that had a bunch of W32 cars. It's the same color combo and it was a Sport Coupe. The car I sold was very rough and had been hit very hard in the quarter panel. It was totally complete though and looks exactly like this car.

Diego

Herboltzheimer was the name of the guy with 4 W-32s - a red hardtop, the red ragtop, and two posts, white/red and green.

I spoke with the guy who owned it before but I don't remember his name. He also may have owned a 'Cuda at one point but I may be confusing him with another Ohio guy - it's been over 10 years.

RALLYE KID

I agree

aliensatemybuick

Smells like another baseless, basically "I think the seller is a jerk" thread...

Declaring something a fake without proof is no different than declaring something real without proof.

Olds_71_442

Is this the car? Whether it's a clone or not, it's one beautiful car!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oldsm...t_12358wt_1010

Allan R

x2!

mrolds69

Ok...I agree with what peeps here are saying. No...I can't prove it's a clone, so that's true. I did look the car over carefully. I was offered it for mid 30's, the seller was very anxious to sell it, he came down close to 5K more. It IS a nice car, my feeling was it was a great price if it was real, if it was just a 442 it was too high in my opinion. At that time the car needed paint work. The info on these cars is sketchy at best. I know it had an OG tranny, I thought it should have an OW. the rear was a Chevy or Canadian 12 bolt with a V on the cover. It was not a performance axle, I don't think it was a posi when I asked the seller. I did not check the VIN on the tranny, but you can get tranny tags and restamp them. The drivers inner fender had holes for a washer bottle, and it looked like there was one there before. It COULD have been hit and a used fender installed. My understanding is that there are no holes on original cars on the driver's side. I did ask around about the car and checked the web. Someone told me the car once belonged to the owner of H&H, the guy who does the woodgrain dash plates, etc. The word on the web was the car was a clone...done a long time ago but nobody would admit to doing it. It was 3-4 years ago I saw it, and it looks much better now, someone's done some work to it. I'm pretty sure the dist was a 933 at that time. Every time I asked about something, I got a well...it's been changed answer. I actually thought I would be doing someone a favor here by posting. I have no grudge with the biz selling it now. Personally...I would never buy a W32 unless it was documented, or not much more $$$ than the cost of a nice 442. There were more odd things about that car, I can't remember everything now. I guess I was wrong to start this thread. If you think it's real, snap it up if the price is right. I should have just said it was suspicious, I guess.

GAOldsman

[QUOTE=wmachine;413097]Hmmm I wonder what the build date of it may be. Any one got a clue by the VIN 344779M288514 since there is no close up of the cowl tag? Honestly in my opinion, I believe it to be real, albeit some things may have been added. But that is just from looking online and not up close and personal.

Allan R

Scot, the build date is March 2, 1970. It was on the broadcast card, remember? A whole month before the release of SSI for disc brake cars. I guess that's part of the provenance being stated as: ALL ORIGINAL UNRESTORED CONDITION ! and the part I don't get? TWO WAY TAILGATE ! This isn't a wagon.....

GAOldsman

Wrong thread and wrong car Allan the March 2, 1970 is the Barn find W30 bermember?? This is a 1969 Post Coupe, supposedly W32 on Ebay we are talking about here

Allan R

Ooops. My bad. Sorry bout dat.

2blu442

OK, I didn't see anything about the build date, but the ad for the W32 does say it has 5 doors or more, and the two way tailgate! The company advertizing it goofed in the ad... must have been selling a Vista Cruiser and did the cut and paste thing for the ad.

So Allan, your memory is only partly off


John

Olds_71_442

Hey man....I think you did the right thing by alerting us. Don't feel bad for being cautious. I think it's a beautiful car, but if I was pushed to pay 30,000 or more for it, I doubt I'd do it.

Diego

But what if it is legit? Then someone ends up having trouble selling the car because of a rumor, which ain't too cool.

Anyway, the car is in much nicer condition than when I saw it. It also had wheelcovers, which gave it a nice, sedate look. Now it looks like any other 4-4-2.

Olds_71_442

If it's legit, you do your homework and find out if it is. It shouldn't be that hard to find out the facts on the car. It's always good to be aware of what you're getting yourself into if your spending a large sum of money when you really can't afford it.

I should also add that I'm not one to buy something just because it's a numbers matching or the value is through the roof. I buy something because it's something I like. That goes for just about anything. Not just cars.

Diego

I'm just saying that I can appreciate the effort in alerting people, but I wouldn't want to do that unless I was 100% sure. Considering the OP is a judge for the OCA and didn't know front discs were available with SSIs at some point during the year, could it be suggested that his good intentions are fraught with mistakes? Because no matter how much homework you do, if a car is undocumented there's plenty of people who aren't interested in paying W-32 prices for a W-32.

Olds_71_442

I guess it's like most things. If you don't have the documentation to prove it, you're gonna lose a little in value. But shouldn't the tag on the firewall (or wherever it is on 69s, I'm not too familiar with the pre 70s) tell something about it's history?

I don't think it matters what anyone says about the car. If someone really loves it, they're gonna buy it no matter if it's the real deal or a fake if they can get it for a price that suits them.

Diego

Is your car a real W-30? How would you like it for someone to suggest that it's not a real W-30, and then he tells his friends? But you seem to think it doesn't matter what anyone says about a car. The legal profession has a term for this - slander - although I'm not a lawyer so I guess I'm talking out of my *** suggesting that others should be careful of doing the same. :-)

Olds_71_442

Actually, no it's not a real W30. I like the look so that's what I went for.

As for the car, I don't see where it's that big of a deal? Like I said, a serious buyer isn't going to give a rat's *** what we have to say on this forum. They will read it and then do some checking of their own. I'm pretty sure if someone is interested in this car, they're going to buy it.

I think you're taking things way too seriously.

GAOldsman

Just got word the seller has lowered the reserve price..... Hmmmmmmmmm.........

The trouble with potentially buying this car from dealerships like this is, what if any documentation comes with the car other than the maintenance receipts????

Diego

What about the serious seller?


I didn't take it seriously until I saw a someone defending someone else who jumped the gun.

Olds_71_442

What about him? It's a dealership, isn't it? I'm assuming it's not the only car they have for sale? And I'm sure they won't starve because of it.

And the guy was feeling down about his decision to jump the gun on the car. It made me feel bad to see him feel that way. I thought I'd say something a little positive to make him feel better. I don't understand why you'd be more upset at a guy who's defending the guy who started the thread?

Diego

I'm not really upset. I don't begrudge the OP at all. I just find it curious that you think slander is okay.

I've had someone tell me my car wasn't a real W-30 because I had the wrong front fenders. Even though I had no clue of the difference between 1970 and '71-72 fenders, I knew he was full of it because a car's pedigree doesn't depend of the fenders, never mind I have evidence to show my car's history. But if I had sell my car if I were to get married, how do you think I would feel that the response to my ad was muted due to some guy who was mistaken?

I'd be pretty pissed. And just because we may not like dealerships doesn't mean we shouldn't act with integrity and think, "They won't starve because of it."

GAOldsman

Great way to introduce yourself Being passionate about facts shouldn't interfere with our brotherly compassion about why we are here on the CO to begin with. No onehere knows everything there is to know about everything Oldsmobile, especially these obscure rarities. That's why we are all here; to lend a hand, teach or learn whatever the case may be. The OP whether right or wrong felt the need to "warn" us and that was all, it came down to the fact that he should've worded the title of the thread a little differently but the fact of the matter is the OP saw 1st hand what most of us are reading about online. So truth be known, if you are considering purchasing it without personally looking at it, driving it and seeing what accompanying documents, then I say as well as the original post says "Buyer Beware"

Highwayman

Bite your tongue...

z11375ss

If you have to sell your car because you're getting married, make sure you get an extra ring for your nose. Because when she pulls it, you will go where she tells you to, because it hurts. That said after celebrating my 25th wedding anniversary last month. I'd be pissed that I had to sell my car if I was getting married! That's a whole thread in itself. Don't take this the wrong way, just trying to add some levity. I'm glad he alerted us to a possible fraud. I would have checked it thoroughly for myself anyway. So should anyone dropping this kind of coin.

Olds_71_442

It's not slander. No one proved it WAS a W32, so that means you're just shooting off with nothing to back it up.

Once again you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I'd be willing to bet that car will sell for the same amount whether this thread had been started or not. And as far as integrity, I totally stand behind the guy who started this thread. He did it with good intentions.

If you want to stand behind some (possibly, because most are) sleazy car salesman and say what a douchebag this guy was for starting a thread that might damage the sales of this car (what a joke!) then help yourself. I stand behind my original statement.

66-3X2 442

Pay him no attention,he takes the opposite stance over on ROP.

Diego

Funny coming from a guy who thinks it's okay to restamp blocks and sell it as "number's matching."

Or is that slander?

Mike, you know better than to start trouble.

66-3X2 442

Yawn,since when have I EVER said it was OK to restamp a block and present as numbers matching? As far as starting trouble,I'm late to the party.

Olds_71_442

So in other words.....he's trolling?

Diego

What do you think?

Do you think it's better to speak out with evidence?

Do you think it's better to not doubt someone's sincerity despite the fact he's a dealer?

On the other hand, check out this car, which is a known retag - this is how it's done:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...page=0&fpart=1

Olds_71_442

Why do you care so much about this? It's the internet where everyone speaks their minds. Both cars that have been discussed are very nice cars. However, not everyone has a disposable income to spend 50,000 on a muscle car. The fact that they aren't selling has nothing to do with people commenting about it on a message board. If you want to get that kind of money out of a car.....take it to a Barrett Jackson auction where there are people with money who can afford to buy cars like this. Making negative comments about cars or anything is a way of life on the internet.......get used to it.

Diego

Don't you think that it's our responsibility to promote a sense of integrity in the hobby? Or should we just say "buyer beware" and let the cards fall where they may?