madmax442

Yes I know this is a forum about our beloved Olds products but what do you all think the best overall mucslecar platform was? I guess I'm biased but I believe it's a GM A-body in one shape or another! They can all be fairly light and still full frame cars. Any thoughts?

oldcutlass

Its hard to pin down because all the car manufacturers has some sweet body styles. My car appreciation is varied from the 20's right up to 72. That's where my car appreciation basically stops. As a kid I drooled over many a car that adorned the pages of Hot Rod.

pogo69

I always liked the style of the 69 70 mach 1 especially with a 429 or 428 they were fast my 70 351 mach 1 was nice but could not keep up with gm or dodge big blocks the chargers and super bee's etc were great bodies but the gm a body just didnt have the eye appeal as a mustang

madmax442

I was thinking that in overall performance the A-body variants and even The newer G-body cars had a better chassis to handle lots of power than unibody platforms. Even though Mustangs and Mopars with big power could still be beat with a better chassis. I was just curious about opinions on this.

Koda

I like the Corvettes of the 60s and 70s. Still take a lot of standard Chevrolet parts so stuff is fairly normally priced that isn't Corvette specific, but they were faster because of being lighter. Add to that that it wasn't insanely fast and overpriced like it is now, and that it was still a Chevy (and made all the other "better" divisions' fanboys upset when they got beat), and it was a good bargain. Of course, anything after 72 sucks, like all GM stuff, until about 96.

88 Cutty Classic

owning 3 G-bodys, a 70 A-body and a 69 B-body mopar i would have to say, for straight muscle car, its the mopar. The g-bodys are nice but they have tiny brakes that you have to upgrade and big blocks are STUFFED in there, the GM a-bodys are a little soft , the B-body feels like a mans car through and through.

for reference the cars are as follows:
83 Hurst
84 Hurst
85 Monte SS
70 Gran Sport Stage 1
69 1/2 Road Runner 440 6 BBL

I did a lot of hotchkis upgrades to my Gran Sport and it still doenst have as nice a feel as the leaf spring set up in the mopar. That car stays so flat in the turns. I have power brakes and steering in the Gran sport and not in the Road runner and the road runner is still more fun to drive. well more you KNOW you were driving it when the day is through. That car is controlled violence. to me thats what muscle cars should be.

88 Cutty Classic

corvettes and cobra and even pony cars shouldnt be mentioned in this conversation because they are not muscle cars.

Rear wheel drive
2 door
intermediate
big displacement engine

Koda

In that case, three of your cars don't qualify either.

88 Cutty Classic

no they dont but big cubes werent available in the 80s. they were still built in the same spirit as their predecessors. a corvette on the other hand is a sports car.

modern muscle has a different meaning in my eyes. Pretty much any performance car in the 90s and up gets lumped in to modern muscle. impala ss, f-bodys, vettes, challengers, stangs, marauder, muscle trucks...etc..

1968_Post

Cutty Classic;873160]corvettes and cobra and even pony cars shouldnt be mentioned in this conversation because they are not muscle cars.

As the saying goes, a picture is worth 425 words (or something like that)...

CutlassDad

With full credit to Mr. Wangers , the Pontiac GTO. Theirs was the first.

Koda

I don't think a Corvette is a sports car, per se. Allow me to elaborate.

A sports car is a RWD 2 door 2 seater, independent rear suspension car built to be light and handle well. A muscle car is a standard passenger car that they crammed a big engine into. The original Corvettes had the Blue Flame 6 and were underpowered; they were supposed to be Thunderbird and MG competition. Then, they put an 8 into them, and they took off.

Due to American roads being good and big and straight, we've always been about raw power over braking and steering. Putting an 8 into a sports car made it handle worse, but had more power, and putting the big 8s into them in the 60s and 70s made them "muscled" sports cars. Nowadays, they're pure supercars.

So, a 1969 tri-carbed 427 Corvette was indeed a muscle car, and would've probably beaten everything in sight, Hurst Olds's included.

88 Cutty Classic

you and the person who made the 50 fastest muscle car list are about the only people that i've ever heard call a corvette a muscle car. muscle cars were born in 64, well after the vette was out. the corvette was built to compete with sports cars.

70cutty

I agree, I think Corvette has always been American Sports Car.

1968_Post

Here's how I define muscle cars... When, in 1970, sitting at a red light in my 1968 L-79 Chevelle, one of the following would pull up next to me at a light, causing me to immediately find a reason to look the other way:

Anything with "HEMI" anywhere on the car
Any red, white or blue Mustang with NO markings on it
Any goofy colored Camaro with NO markings but a cowl hood
427/425 Biscaynes
L-78 Novas
L-88 or LS-6 anything
I'd add the Buick GSX to the list but never had the opportunity to get thumped by one.

Koda

I am not sure you read what I wrote.

Now, that's funny.

pogo69

I never considered the vette a ''muscle car'' either they were kind of in a class of their own...actually as teen and into my 20's any of these cars , when talking to people and friends etc we never used the term muscle car anyway i cant really remember when maybe the 80's the 60's 70's hypo's started to be called muscle cars as a group

z11375ss

I own a 71 LT1 Vette. It's a race car, not a muscle car. Gm A bodies are the best platforms for performance IMO.

madmax442

The vette is not and never has been a muscle car. It's a sports car! When I think of an all around great muscle car I think of something with great power but also something that can harness that power and put it to the ground! I'm really surprised to hear some on here say that leaf spring cars and unibody cars felt better. I definately would never think a unibody leaf sprung car would feel good especially in hard cornering. When I think of unibody, I think of a wet noodle! When I think of something like an A-body/ G-body car I think strong, stable and very capable like a good old tried and true 30-06 rifle but that's just me!

1968_Post

Having grown up with these cars and having spent more paychecks on Wide Oval Polyglas GT tires than I care to remember, the only thing I recall them putting to the ground was a whole bunch of tread in a really short span of time.
Or, maybe my right foot spent most of its time flat on the floor, I dunno!

88 Cutty Classic

i mean i dont typically take the Road runner up a winding road at high speeds but in street city driving i prefer it to the Gran Sport. I get that leap forward feel when the car loads up from a shift. The A-body seems to squat more. I guess its a matter of preference. Im lucky that i can drive both often to be able to compare. The Road Runner does have the super track pack with hemi suspension so i'm sure that adds to the feel. When that car tries to get sideways it usually corrects itself, and thats without power steering where as my GS wants to keep wagging like a happy dog. both are pushing about the same power. we've raced them heads up several times and the Road Runner has won every time... BUT there are a few caveats to that. the RR has brand new carbs sitting on top, has 410s where as the GS has got a 30 yr old carb that needs refreshed and 3;55s. these cars used to belong to my uncles. they raced in 86 and the RR won by two, they raced in 90 and the GS won by 2, now in 2015 its the RR by a 1 1/2.

as far G-body.. they are rear happy and push through turns at times.. I DO NOT LIKE THEM at anything over 100 lol. those are all correctable but it becomes how much do you want to spend on suspension upgrades. my 03 Marauder feels like heaven at 120. quite the contrast to a g-body.

madmax442

It's very cool you have all those cars to compare to each other! I like most any kind of musclecar and would definitely love other brands besides my Olds but I'm going to need a big pocketbook for that!!!

Koda

Ok, so what other sports car ran a 454 cubic inch engine or one of similar displacement?

coppercutlass

the vette imo is not a muscle car and i hate them lol besides the 62-67 those can look cool as drag cars . Imo the Gm A body had one of the most versatile plat forms. When we talk muscle cars we are talking straight line performance and the Gm a body has a very capable stock 4 link that with minimal work can handle 450 500 hp possibly more. But i have seen guys running well into the 9's with minor changes relatively speaking. adjustable uppers , relocation brackets , stuff like that. Now for newer the G body is great but the fox body platform is very very capable not to mention its got so much after market support and was the plat form for many many ford cars besides the mustang .

madmax442

Imo even if it has big cubes it doesn't mean it's a musclecar! Look at the Dodge Viper! Huge engine but definitely not a musclecar! The vette went after other groups of drivers although I will not say that they didn't do any drag racing but I don't think you can classify them anywhere in the musclecar category.

madmax442

This is how I feel about the A-body cars as well! Super versatile and tons of aftermarket support now as well!

The Fox Chassis isn't very good in my book in bone stock form but the aftermarket has made it into a killer if done right! I own a 2003 Mach 1 which is a Fox 4 chassis. It can be made into a great drag platform but it's gonna take a lot of cash to keep that body from twisting! That said I still want a 85 GT or a 88-93 notchback if I can find a good one!

Koda

My point was that the Corvettes, especially the big block ones of the muscle car era, have too big of an engine to be a sports car, which is mainly about handling. The 1970 911 Porsche ran a 2.2L, which is a 134 cubic inches. The Datsun Z was a 2 liter. The Jag XK-E ran a 4.2L, or 262. Alfa Romeo Spider was a 2L. Austin Sprite was a 1.2L. There's only one "sports car" of the 60s and 70s that had an engine close to Corvette displacement, and that was done on purpose, being the AC Cobra.

88 Cutty Classic

hey we are engine brothers. I got an 03 Marauder. it comes alive pretty good at 3 grand. i have a CAI and a tune. going 4:10s in the spring. 14.6 at 98mph. not bad for a big sedan.

RandyS

Had a chance to drive one back in 1967 before I went to Viet Nam. Fastest thing I've ever been in!! Would chew up and spit out any stock Vette (or anything else) made up till that point.

z11375ss

That's because the cars you mentioned are gay.

steverw

I have heard before that Vettes are not considered muscle cars, and that they are sports cars. I have had my 65 Vette since 1977. Small block, 383 roller at the time, and its fast!. I can tell you that it dosent handle like a sports car, the old tech suspension can be scary, and i rebuilt ALL the suspension in the last 2 years, front and rear. I also put a Steeroids rack and pinion on it which i love. To me it feels more like a muscle car than a sports car. I could do suspension upgrades to make it handle better but i want to leave it pretty much stock in that area. I have a 73 Trans Am that handles great IMO, and the ride is very smooth/not harsh like some. But my love of muscle cars has a broad range, very few Fords 69 Mach or Boss 302, 67 Fairlane 500, 70 Roadrunner or GTX, i would go to the Plymouth dealer when they were new and drool, I was 16 then. Rambler AMX, any Chevy muscle, and definately Olds. The 69 H/O is my all time fantacy muscle car. But i do want a Buick GS when i finish my Olds so i will have a Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, and Buick......... Ahhhhhh the choices, what will i drive today?

madmax442

That is one sweet ride! I drove a 66' convertible that was just restored at the time in 1998. It was a beautiful light blue metallic with white top and white interior. That Vette was a numbers matching 427 with 4speed car. The only thing it didn't have was the tri-power option as it was a 780cfm 4 barrel and 425hp. When I drove it, it pulled in 4th like my 71' cutlass pulled in first! That car was insanely brutal! You didn't steer it, you aimed it!

eagle101

I always favored the 396/375hp Chevy Nova . It hooked up better than most and with a couple of suspension tweeks the weight shift for traction was perfect . With a Turbo 400 there wasn't many that could catch it .IMHO

z11375ss

That's how I feel about my Vette. I have to aim that sucker.