Ctls442

If a 1970 Cutlass W-31 was originally ordered with a wide ratio four speed manual, and no optional axle ratio was specified, would the car have come equipped with a 3.42, or a 3.91 rear?

stevengerard

3.91 was standard, 3.42, 4.33, 4.66 and 5.0 were optional

Mr Shifty Sidney

Here is the chart from the assembly manual that shows what Steven just said. From section 4 pg 92. This is just one source, we may need to check other sources as well.

Picts of the Reef Turq car would be cool

Don W

Ctls442

Thanks for the information. Here are a few pictures of the reef turquoise (paint code 34) car I recently bought. This is the car that was the reason for my original question. The Dealer Copy of the Car Shipping Order states G80 Anti-Spin Rear Axle; there is nothing else on the Shipping Order regarding the ratio. The car originally came with these "P01 wheel discs"; a $21 option, and raised white letter tires. Originally bought off the showroom floor of Jay Oldsmobile-Cadillac, in Roswell, New Mexico. The original owner, Kathy (21 years old in 1970), moved to Golden, Colorado in 1971, and worked for the Coors Company until retirement. The 5'0" fiery redhead told me she caused her sister to pray a lot when she rode in the W-31 with her!

Mr Shifty Sidney

Nice!! Does your car confirm the assembly manual (3.91's) chart?

​​​​​​​Don W

stevengerard

wow, just wow! Awesome car!!!

Ctls442

Don, The car won't physically be in my possession for another week or so, therefore I cannot say with certainty which rear the car has. The motor, transmission, and rear are all original so I am anxious to find out which rear is under the car. I know the M21 close ratio/3.91 is a common combination, and I have seen other M20 wide ratio W-31s mated to 3.42's, but I don't recall seeing the M20 paired with 3.91s. That was the reason for my initial question. I guess I will find out soon which gear I have. As a side note, I know all 1971 Boss 351s have wide ratio four speed manual transmissions with 3.91 gears.

Mr Shifty Sidney

Another clue may be the radiator. 3.42s generally have 3 core with no shroud, 3.91s got the 4 core and shroud. Looking at the pictures you posted your car appears to have a 4 core rad and shroud so may be it does have 3.91s.

​​​​​​​Don W
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1969w3155

Do you know for sure that it is a M20?

joe_padavano

The powertrains booklet confirms the info in the PIM. Note that transmission doesn't matter. With every trans, 3.91 was the standard ratio and 3.42 was optional under RPO G92.

Ctls442

Yes, the paper documentation states it is a wide ratio M-20.

oldsmobiledave

Congrats on the purchase of that car. It looks magnificent.


My data base shows 3.91s regardless of trans (M-38 or M-20 or M-21).


Your photos show a fan shroud & 4 core top plate so I suspect that your car has the standard 3.91s which came with the above mentioned HD Cooling.


I look forward to more pics of that car when you take possession.


Dave

Ctls442

Thank you for the information, and positive comments. Will take more pictures in the near future.

Stefano

Kool!

alain

It took me years to find oneNow they are all over the place?
Congrats on your buy
Alain

oldsmobiledave

Exactly what I posted.

Ctls442

They are definitely rare and hard to find. A friend told me about this car two years ago, when he stumbled upon it sitting in a Home Depot parking lot, and it took a year to get the purchase locked down.


While on the topic of 3 core versus 4 core, and fan shrouds, would a '70 W-30 (or regular 442) with 3.42 gears, no a/c, get a 3 or 4 core radiator? Fan shroud or no fan shroud?


You never stop learning about these cars. Thanks, in advance.

Mr Shifty Sidney

Same as W-31 with 3.42 gears. 3 core rad no shroud. There seems to be exceptions to this. A member on here had a low mileage 72 W-30 with 3.42 gears and it had 4 core with shroud.

​​​​​​​Don W

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oldspackrat

Don not to confuse anything but did the same '72 have heavy-duty cooling Maybe?

Mr Shifty Sidney

Y72 was the heavy duty cooling option and it was not available on the 70 -72 W cars.

​​​​​​Don W

stevengerard

Manual W30 cars correct?

Mr Shifty Sidney

Manual or auto

​​​​​​​Don W

1969w3155

The '69 assembly manual indicates that W machines did not get the shroud, I don't know about 1970. There was a discussion on this a couple of years ago. Though the manual says no, I took an informal poll on the Olds/Cutlass/442 W30 etc. forum on FB, and asked if there were any original W owners there, and did their cars come with shrouds from the factory. The majority said yes. My '69, which I bought from the second owner, has it (originally a 4:33 equipped car) but as I wasn't the original owner, I could not say that it was factory.

Ryan 1969 Chevelle SS396

My 1969 W31 (right form the original owner, never messed with has evidence that there was a shroud) I have bought an NOS/Used original for my car.


Ryan W.

stevengerard

That's why I questioned that my car has Y72 cooling based on the original radiator that was in it with the shroud. I will tell you the assembly manual is very confusing as to what a W30 automatic with AC comes with. 4-core was clear but not sure weather it was Y72 with V01 or V02 - very confusing.

Now my car also has the 3.42 SX W27 rear end which it should have not come with but I have spoken to 2 other W30 convertible owners with the W27 rear end and AC and all three of us have 3.42s. Put on at dealer? maybe. Put on at the assembly line as that was all that was available? Maybe. Added sometime before we purchased our cars? Maybe. Just funny out of 168 W30 automatic convertibles and very few with W27 we all have 3.42s.

Edit: just found a note — V02 mandatory whenever 3.42 axle ratio is used. Not available with C60 or Y72.

1969w3155

Ryan, did you ask him if it ever had one?

Ryan 1969 Chevelle SS396

I have asked him everything but.


I will find out:-)


Ryan W.

35tac

Very, very nice find. Congratulations.
Wayne

anthonyP

Sorry to hijack original thread. Hopefully you got the answer to your question. I always thought the higher numerical first gear M-20 worked nice with the 3.42 rear axle instead of the M-21 with 3.90 gears.

Wow, that may be the only 1970 W-31 ordered with optional hub caps instead of just having standard lug covers or optional Rally wheels.

Did the original owner say why she ordered hub caps instead of either of the Super Stock wheels? Can you post more photos of your unique W-31.

Ctls442

I assume this car was originally ordered by the dealer for stock, as the original owner saw it for the first time on the showroom floor. The original owner, Kathy, was looking for a manual transmission muscle car, as her first car. She had looked at a number of different cars, but when she saw the W-31 the search was over. She was used to driving tractors on the family's cotton farm, and wanted a manual transmission car. I will be meeting with her when I pick up the car and will get a better history of her with the car. She owned the car until five years ago, when it was sold to a friend of hers. The car has been driven less than 100 miles since she owned it.


Kathy had nothing to do with the, what I call Cutlass Supreme, hubcaps on the car; the dealer ordered the car with the full hubcaps. There is likely a set of SS1s or SS2s in the cars future, with the XT wheels and hubcaps stored away. The car has 21 options. Another oddity with the car is the Y73 "G.T. Hood Paint Stripe" option for $11, on the window sticker. This being the outline hood stripe it was obviously not available with a ram air hood.


I am anxious to drive the car being that it has the M20 wide ratio transmission and (I am assuming) 3.91 gears. I have heard the M20 was more commonly mated with a gear ratio in the mid 3s. If anyone has experience driving a wide ratio M20 four speed with 3.91 gears, please chime in on the driving experience.


Will start a new thread on the car with more pictures in the near future.

stevengerard

would live to see the hood stripes. Also appreciate you willing or put on the SSI's or SSII's and not leave it original or add poverty caps. Nice thing about turquoise is either one would go really nice with it. I tend to favor SSII's but I think the black of the SSI's will look really nice.

Being so close I would love to meet up to look at the car in person

tomsw31

"If anyone has experience driving a wide ratio M20 four speed with 3.91 gears, please chime in on the driving experience." My W31 is equipped with the M20 and the 391 gears. The motor runs better at higher rpm's so the wide ratio and the steep gear set get the car away from a standing start nicely. The small block hooks up much better than my 391 th400 equipped W30. That 308 cam with the small block can use this additional gear multiplication over the m21 220 first gear. These cars have a completely different driving experience than a regular 310 hp 70 Cutlass.

Ctls442

Steven, Yes, my goal is to get this car out to some shows in 2018; my Oldsmobiles have sat way too much. Greg

Ctls442

Good first hand information, thanks Tom.