'70 W-30 convertible info. needed.
#1
'70 W-30 convertible info. needed.
Hello,
I just joined the forum. I was talking to an acquaintance who's dad is the original owner of a 70 W30 convertible. His dad is moving and wants him to take the car, but he has no space, time, know how, nor desire to restore the car himself. He knows I'm into cars (currently finishing a '63 corvette convertible) and was hinting at me restoring the car for him. He spoke to Thornton's about doing a "mild" restoration for $60K. He going to take me to see the car hopefully this weekend. My research tells me there were 96 4 speed cars produced so this sound like a pretty rare car. I see sales at B.J. anywhere from $100K's on up to $350K+. Which leads me to my first question. Assuming the car is complete, but needs a full body off resto., how much is the car worth as is? I hope to get pictures this weekend.
The car is gold ext. and I think Gold or beige interior. Where can I get information regarding production numbers by colors and options?
Thanks in advance,
Ken
I just joined the forum. I was talking to an acquaintance who's dad is the original owner of a 70 W30 convertible. His dad is moving and wants him to take the car, but he has no space, time, know how, nor desire to restore the car himself. He knows I'm into cars (currently finishing a '63 corvette convertible) and was hinting at me restoring the car for him. He spoke to Thornton's about doing a "mild" restoration for $60K. He going to take me to see the car hopefully this weekend. My research tells me there were 96 4 speed cars produced so this sound like a pretty rare car. I see sales at B.J. anywhere from $100K's on up to $350K+. Which leads me to my first question. Assuming the car is complete, but needs a full body off resto., how much is the car worth as is? I hope to get pictures this weekend.
The car is gold ext. and I think Gold or beige interior. Where can I get information regarding production numbers by colors and options?
Thanks in advance,
Ken
#3
There are way to many factors to determine value. First, no matter what the condition the car must have factory documentation or the real high value will not be there. Even if it is a real W-30, without documents it is nothing more than a 442 in most peoples eyes. a 442 convertible is still a great car but not in the same ball park in value. Next will be original parts. If the engine block or transmission is not original it will hurt it a little. Then the correct F heads, carburetor, intake, distributor, alternator, red inner fenders, should all be there for the best value. These parts are very expensive and hurt the value if not there. If you get us more information and pictures we could help get you a ballpark idea.
#5
Ken, very few of these cars have documentation, your knowledge on vette's should help with determining whether it is a W30. Key is engine and then if its an automatic should have an OW tag with partial vin. The info on this site is will help and the knowledge is second to none. Check for the key engine W30 only parts, should have disk brakes and I think gauge package with tic/toc tach. Good luck and ask questions here.
#8
I've read the build sheet is sometimes behind the rear cover of the driver's seat. How is this cover removed? Are there screws or some kind of hidden pop in clips? I don't want to break anything during removal.
#9
Don't bother on the build sheet, it's a Lansing car they were instructed to toss all of them. Drivers side sill plate remove that and lift carpet area around seat belt area, you may find a Fisher broadcast card. If found it will a box with W30 marked.
Pat
Pat
#10
The most often place is under the back seat but most have been eaten by mice by now. The bucket seat back is the second most common place to find them. After you get the release button removed the cover just unscrews. The button is held in by clips and can be hard to remove without breaking them from being so old and brittle. I have to use a flat screw driver to get in and pop the clips. I just can't remember if the clips are on the top and bottom or on the left and right side of the button. Good luck un the hunt for the broadcast card. I was lucky and mine was still under the back seat when I got it in 2012.
#11
The most often place is under the back seat but most have been eaten by mice by now. The bucket seat back is the second most common place to find them. After you get the release button removed the cover just unscrews. The button is held in by clips and can be hard to remove without breaking them from being so old and brittle. I have to use a flat screw driver to get in and pop the clips. I just can't remember if the clips are on the top and bottom or on the left and right side of the button. Good luck un the hunt for the broadcast card. I was lucky and mine was still under the back seat when I got it in 2012.
#12
Things didn't work out as far as seeing the car this weekend. Probably not for at least 2 weeks now, but a little more info., no 4 spd, but a dual gate shifter automatic, gold ext., black interior with a black top. Stay tuned.
#13
Automatic can help a small degree on identification. If it is an original transmission and it is a real W-30 it will have a tag on the side with an OW. will also have the VIN stamp behind the shift cable. The W-30 is the only car to get the OW so if the vin is correct with that tag it would be a W-30. Now that being said, They started reproducing the OW tag so that will not hold its weight for value compared to the broadcast card.
#14
OW code TH400 transmissions were also used on early production Buick GS Stage 1 Cars.
Years ago cases of blank broad cast cards were found in a warehouse in Michigan. The person who acquired them was selling the blanks on eBay but has gone underground.
Moral of the story is that it can take a number of factors in order to Validate a W-30. Known history and the car itself can be every bit just as important as a broadcast card.
Sounds like you have a rare find in the works......keep us posted and lots of pics would be nice too.
Years ago cases of blank broad cast cards were found in a warehouse in Michigan. The person who acquired them was selling the blanks on eBay but has gone underground.
Moral of the story is that it can take a number of factors in order to Validate a W-30. Known history and the car itself can be every bit just as important as a broadcast card.
Sounds like you have a rare find in the works......keep us posted and lots of pics would be nice too.
Last edited by Stefano; January 13th, 2015 at 12:57 PM.
#17
For what it's worth, the OWs for Buick received a Buick tag, which was stamped and painted differently than the Olds tag. So you'd have to fake the tag to use a Buick OW trans to fake a W-30. Of course, that's not difficult, since the tags are reproduced; but you'd have to age it appropriately.
#18
My point was just that the OW code had been used on another TH400 application. To take an original Buick OW trans and make it an OLDS OW trans would not make much sense, since the VIN and tag would both need to be changed.
Codes for Chevy solid lifter trans in 1970 are:
(CW)= L78 Chevelle SS396 (375hp)
(CY) = LS6 Chevelle SS454 (450hp)
Other than the cases being different do not know the "exact" internal or converter compatibility?
Codes for Chevy solid lifter trans in 1970 are:
(CW)= L78 Chevelle SS396 (375hp)
(CY) = LS6 Chevelle SS454 (450hp)
Other than the cases being different do not know the "exact" internal or converter compatibility?
#20
I would like to add that if it is an original owner car, day one pictures of the car would help tell what it is/was. Hard to deny that old 1970 dated photo with the car on the driveway isn't proof enough.
#22
Everthing a collector could ask for, fully documented, only $93.5K
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Event...ERTIBLE-181537
Not even a W30 sold for more:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Event...ERTIBLE-182229
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Event...ERTIBLE-181537
Not even a W30 sold for more:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Event...ERTIBLE-182229
#23
The W-30 said "Restored by Thornton Muscle Cars of Quakertown, PA, in 2007".
I would not have thought they would have ran the heater hose like this and forget to install the loop on the intake. Maybe it was changed since then. With the price I would say that it is not what is apears to be.
I would not have thought they would have ran the heater hose like this and forget to install the loop on the intake. Maybe it was changed since then. With the price I would say that it is not what is apears to be.
#24
Everthing a collector could ask for, fully documented, only $93.5K
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Event...ERTIBLE-181537
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Event...ERTIBLE-181537
$100k is what these generally sold for in the past. The big money are the four speed convertibles
#25
Well here we are 5 months + a day from when this thread was started and thought I would see the car within a week. The car was finally moved to my friends house here in town, so I stopped over tonight to check it out. Below are some pics.
#26
I just did a quick look see and snapped some photos. He said he has the original window sticker and other documentation. I didn't look for the cards under the rear seat and stuff, but he's the original owner so I think its a legit W30. Hurst shifter, PS, PB. I didn't search for numbers, maybe next time I stop over. The body is OK, but has some rust issues on the lower panels and rear decklid. Bumpers are straight, one ding in the front. Interior is dirty, but looks to be in pretty good shape. Carpets have been removed. Frame has usual rust on it, but appears solid. Engine was disassembled and reassembled, but not close to being ready to start.
They will not sell the car nor do a concourse resto, but want to get it back on the road looking good. Given the rust on the body and frame, its hard to determine where to draw the line on a restoration without doing a full body off job. We are both pondering where to go from here - they how to get the car back on the road, and me if I want to take on the job and at what price. I'll post more info as it becomes available.
They will not sell the car nor do a concourse resto, but want to get it back on the road looking good. Given the rust on the body and frame, its hard to determine where to draw the line on a restoration without doing a full body off job. We are both pondering where to go from here - they how to get the car back on the road, and me if I want to take on the job and at what price. I'll post more info as it becomes available.
#27
Can anyone comment on the door jam gaps regarding if this appears "normal"? The gaps are not consistent top to bottom and appear rather large. Body was not hit and if it was sagging, the top would be smaller than the bottom, but the top gap is actually larger toward the bottom of the door.
#29
Gaps don't look all THAT bad. Probably a Friday car (joke). As far as deciding what to do, wait until the old boy pulls out his documentation to see what you've got and then go from there. Right now, I'm not seeing a hell of a lot of evidence that this is in fact a W-30 beyond the red inners.
Last edited by BangScreech4-4-2; June 9th, 2015 at 09:30 AM.
#30
Those door gaps are not out of the ordinary for an A-body that's been used.
They can probably be straightened out through some judicious adjustments.
The frame looks fine - that's just surface rust.
I'd just clean it up, get some tires, throw in a carpet, and drive it as it is.
- Eric
They can probably be straightened out through some judicious adjustments.
The frame looks fine - that's just surface rust.
I'd just clean it up, get some tires, throw in a carpet, and drive it as it is.
- Eric
#31
Looks like original red inner fenders. The TCS hardware is still on the intake. Is the air cleaner adapter in the car? It's an automatic, so look for a matching VIN derivative on the trans with an OW tag on the trans. Assuming it's not a repro OW tag (pretty easy to tell - does the tag look like it's been in place since 1970?), that's the best proof you'll ever get that the car is legit.
#32
The car has been sitting at least 15-20 years and needs a lot of work just to make it start and be roadworthy.
The topside of the air cleaner is there, just not on the engine.
Is the wire mesh on the underside of the hood factory correct? I thought I read somewhere the W30 didn't have power brakes. Maybe the booster was added later.
The biggest cost is in the body work. It has usual rust in the bottom of the doors, quarterpanels, and the decklid.
The topside of the air cleaner is there, just not on the engine.
Is the wire mesh on the underside of the hood factory correct? I thought I read somewhere the W30 didn't have power brakes. Maybe the booster was added later.
The biggest cost is in the body work. It has usual rust in the bottom of the doors, quarterpanels, and the decklid.
#33
The car has been sitting at least 15-20 years and needs a lot of work just to make it start and be roadworthy.
The topside of the air cleaner is there, just not on the engine.
Is the wire mesh on the underside of the hood factory correct? I thought I read somewhere the W30 didn't have power brakes. Maybe the booster was added later.
The biggest cost is in the body work. It has usual rust in the bottom of the doors, quarterpanels, and the decklid.
The topside of the air cleaner is there, just not on the engine.
Is the wire mesh on the underside of the hood factory correct? I thought I read somewhere the W30 didn't have power brakes. Maybe the booster was added later.
The biggest cost is in the body work. It has usual rust in the bottom of the doors, quarterpanels, and the decklid.
#34
Yes. It kept birds and small children out of the engine.
1970 was the first year that PB and A/C was available on the W-30 with automatic trans only. The reason for this is that the manual trans motors continued to get the 328/328 cam that would not pull enough vacuum, but the AT motors got the 285/287 cam from the W-34 Toro motor. How that cam made the same HP as the manual trans cam remains a mystery of the marketing department.
I thought I read somewhere the W30 didn't have power brakes. Maybe the booster was added later.
#35
jensenracing 77:
There is a lot wrong besides what you mentioned about being wrong with that white 70' W30 convert. Thornton is the LAST restoration shop I would use to do a CORRECT restoration on an Olds. I have seen several of his restorations and none seemed to be restored properly. Very inconsistent from car to car. It seems his restorations are about the "bling", like chrome, paint, etc. I even stopped by his shop for about 1/2 day in 2010. Even let me wonder around by myself and got to see his "stash of cars/parts" in a warehouse behind his shop. I stopped to talk to one of the body guys and he said " I cannot talk to you. If he see me talking to you, he'll fire me". He was not a very friendly guy either. He knew who I was. I had the F85 W31 in the enclosed trailer and did not even mention the car or wanted to see it! Kind of felt insulted!
There is a lot wrong besides what you mentioned about being wrong with that white 70' W30 convert. Thornton is the LAST restoration shop I would use to do a CORRECT restoration on an Olds. I have seen several of his restorations and none seemed to be restored properly. Very inconsistent from car to car. It seems his restorations are about the "bling", like chrome, paint, etc. I even stopped by his shop for about 1/2 day in 2010. Even let me wonder around by myself and got to see his "stash of cars/parts" in a warehouse behind his shop. I stopped to talk to one of the body guys and he said " I cannot talk to you. If he see me talking to you, he'll fire me". He was not a very friendly guy either. He knew who I was. I had the F85 W31 in the enclosed trailer and did not even mention the car or wanted to see it! Kind of felt insulted!
#36
Looks like it needs a $60k restoration, starting with the sandblasting of the frame.
If it has the OW trans, and F heads, etc. then it should be worthy.
OTOH, it does not need "a lot of work just to make it start and be roadworthy"
We drive much worse stuff than that here every day.
Drive it around until someone offers you too much money. 7/22-25, Olds Nationals in Milwaukee WI area. Drive it there and enter it in the show.
http://www.oldsmobileclub.org/wp-con...ation-Form.pdf
If it has the OW trans, and F heads, etc. then it should be worthy.
OTOH, it does not need "a lot of work just to make it start and be roadworthy"
We drive much worse stuff than that here every day.
Drive it around until someone offers you too much money. 7/22-25, Olds Nationals in Milwaukee WI area. Drive it there and enter it in the show.
http://www.oldsmobileclub.org/wp-con...ation-Form.pdf
#38
Well, we checked under the rear seat and behind the driver's seat, and no broadcast card. I think my friend's dad was in there already, so he's going to ask him what paperwork he has besides the window sticker and dealer invoice.
I pulled some numbers off the motor, all adding up to a W30.
7040258 on the carb. (good for an automatic W30)
402295 on Left exhaust manifold
406115 on intake
396021F on block
Vin starts with 334 and 7th character is an M
Posit tag on the rear end
At this point, the car is not for sale, so its not really important for me to get the documentation. I need to formulate a price to restore the car to at least road worthyness, but not concourse level.
Here's a few more pics.
I pulled some numbers off the motor, all adding up to a W30.
7040258 on the carb. (good for an automatic W30)
402295 on Left exhaust manifold
406115 on intake
396021F on block
Vin starts with 334 and 7th character is an M
Posit tag on the rear end
At this point, the car is not for sale, so its not really important for me to get the documentation. I need to formulate a price to restore the car to at least road worthyness, but not concourse level.
Here's a few more pics.
#40
7040258 on the carb. (good for an automatic W30)
Carb is W-30 only and dated proper for the car.
All info below is same if W-30 or std 442, built in Lansing.
402295 on Left exhaust manifold
406115 on intake
396021F on block
Vin starts with 334 and 7th character is an M
Posit tag on the rear end
Carb is W-30 only and dated proper for the car.
All info below is same if W-30 or std 442, built in Lansing.
402295 on Left exhaust manifold
406115 on intake
396021F on block
Vin starts with 334 and 7th character is an M
Posit tag on the rear end