40yr old car is falling apart !
March 1st, 2012, 09:27 AM
#81
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March 1st, 2012, 09:49 AM
#82
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I tried this and it did not work. Not even spinning the pump with my cordless drill! It did not drop one tad. A high speed drill might work, but that might be too big to get on the pulley. Mine was only 500rpm or so.
Just start the car to be safe. Faster, too.
Bottom line - if you hear growling, do NOT turn the wheels!
Just start the car to be safe. Faster, too.
Bottom line - if you hear growling, do NOT turn the wheels!
.... I've been at this way to long , and I've been making way to much noise.
March 1st, 2012, 10:02 AM
#83
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The fittings may be a problem though , if you look at the side of the nut with the slashes in it .... that means that its a European fitting , maybe German with a 33 degree bank angle and a oring seal . I'm getting a headache trying to remember all this stuff from 10yrs ago. The calculation you gave me on hose pressure seems about right with a 2 wire braid - 1/4 ID = 5000PSI - 3/8 ID = 3750PSI - 1/2 ID = 1000PSI - 3/4 ID = 750OPSI ( Gates hose specs with their 4 times safety factor )
March 1st, 2012, 10:08 AM
#84
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Its funny how one little thing can screw everything up ! It is also a good thing that the stupid little hose that would not budge did not ... or I would have had a mess on my hand and maybe a broken new PS pump .Thank you all for your advice on this , it will make things easier this weekend.
oh Eric thanks for the advice on the flare wrench , I will look into that.
BREAKING NEWS
I drove the car to Mcdonalds to get coffee today , and she sounds like she has a jet engine now lol ... somethings gonna blow !
Last edited by oldsguybry; March 1st, 2012 at 10:46 AM.
March 1st, 2012, 11:01 AM
#85
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Bleeding the power steering pump and gear is easy, but it is easy to screw things up, too!
NEVER turn steering wheel until system stays FULL after running engine!
After everything is hooked up and ready to run, fill reservoir to the full position with Dexron 2 ATF.
Start car and shut off after only a couple SECONDS! Pump will growl when pump runs dry (fluid gets forced into steering gear).
Check for leaks. Tighten hoses with only a line wrench.
Fill reservoir to full again and start car and run a couple seconds and shut off again. Refill.
Start car and let run a bit longer - like 30 seconds. IF you hear the growling sound, stop it as soon as possible and refill.
After it holds a constant full, procede with turning the steery wheel...
At this point, spreading some sand under the front wheels is advised.
When level stays at full, slowly turn wheels from left to right to center.
Shut off car and top off fluid. Shouldn't need much.
Restart and slowly turn wheels lock to lock a few more times slowly to bleed little air bubbles.
Shut off and top off. You should be done.
Check for leaks and tighten hoses. Make sure pulley nut and belt is tight, too.
Turning the wheels when the pump is/runs dry introduces big compressed gulps of air which can pop a pressure valve in the pump. It will require disassy to purge the air and reset the pressure valve. So that is why you need to make sure pump will stay full before turning wheels!
NEVER turn steering wheel until system stays FULL after running engine!
After everything is hooked up and ready to run, fill reservoir to the full position with Dexron 2 ATF.
Start car and shut off after only a couple SECONDS! Pump will growl when pump runs dry (fluid gets forced into steering gear).
Check for leaks. Tighten hoses with only a line wrench.
Fill reservoir to full again and start car and run a couple seconds and shut off again. Refill.
Start car and let run a bit longer - like 30 seconds. IF you hear the growling sound, stop it as soon as possible and refill.
After it holds a constant full, procede with turning the steery wheel...
At this point, spreading some sand under the front wheels is advised.
When level stays at full, slowly turn wheels from left to right to center.
Shut off car and top off fluid. Shouldn't need much.
Restart and slowly turn wheels lock to lock a few more times slowly to bleed little air bubbles.
Shut off and top off. You should be done.
Check for leaks and tighten hoses. Make sure pulley nut and belt is tight, too.
Turning the wheels when the pump is/runs dry introduces big compressed gulps of air which can pop a pressure valve in the pump. It will require disassy to purge the air and reset the pressure valve. So that is why you need to make sure pump will stay full before turning wheels!
Last edited by oldsguybry; March 1st, 2012 at 11:21 AM. Reason: spelling & gramma
March 1st, 2012, 11:19 AM
#86
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Cork up the pump when running the engine, just to eliminate any possible splatters.
The sand is for the wheels to turn easier, yes.
Dexron is what the manuals recommend. however, one never knows what other owners have put in there. A mixture of stuff could cause problems...
The sand is for the wheels to turn easier, yes.
Dexron is what the manuals recommend. however, one never knows what other owners have put in there. A mixture of stuff could cause problems...
March 1st, 2012, 03:32 PM
#87
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March 1st, 2012, 04:00 PM
#88
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I think Rob's point is that while they should be compatible, it doesn't take much extra effort to just use either one type of fluid or the other, so why take chances?
In my own experience, I have combined them with no problem, more or less accidentally:
C'est la vie. Matches the car.
- Eric
In my own experience, I have combined them with no problem, more or less accidentally:
- I know that the late model Jeeps call for P/S fluid, so when I put the GC steering box in my car, I used P/S fluid from NAPA (same price as ATF), which was clear in color. Well, though I tried to get all of the ATF out of my P/S pump (I did not actually flush it through with good fluid, as it really looked like I had gotten all of the old stuff out), I must not have succeeded, because after adding over a quart of P/S fluid to the system when I refilled it, the clear fluid ended up being pink.
C'est la vie. Matches the car.
- Eric
March 1st, 2012, 06:41 PM
#89
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The newest Dexron, foreign car PS fluid, the accidental dose of brake fluid or maybe part of a pepsi....
On a 40 year old car, one just never knows what might have got put in it, weather intentional or accidental!
With brake fluid you have at least 3 different types, so do shops always know which goes in what car? I had a shop put ATF in my Ford's rear axle.
He said all the new cars use it. A little thinner than 80-90... It was due for a change anyway...
On a 40 year old car, one just never knows what might have got put in it, weather intentional or accidental!
With brake fluid you have at least 3 different types, so do shops always know which goes in what car? I had a shop put ATF in my Ford's rear axle.
He said all the new cars use it. A little thinner than 80-90... It was due for a change anyway...
March 1st, 2012, 07:40 PM
#90
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My BMW uses Dextron in the 5-speed trans, but gear oil in the rear end (non-posi).
Interestingly enough, I remember about 25 years ago one of my father's friends who owned a transmission shop telling me I should put ATF in my M-21, instead of gear oil. He said he put it in all his rebuilds.
Didn't sound right to me, so I never did it.
- Eric
Interestingly enough, I remember about 25 years ago one of my father's friends who owned a transmission shop telling me I should put ATF in my M-21, instead of gear oil. He said he put it in all his rebuilds.
Didn't sound right to me, so I never did it.
- Eric
March 1st, 2012, 07:58 PM
#91
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A shop that doesn't know what kind of fluid to put in a car shouldn't be in business. Probably will be out of business soon as they screw up the customers car and get sued.
OK, I'll bite
What's this about putting tranny fluid in the diff? You for real? You know I'm gonna go look this up because it sounds like bohica to me. I think the hook is stuck under my toothes.....
March 1st, 2012, 08:19 PM
#94
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Lots of newer cars use ATF instead of gear oil in manual transmissions.
I know about my own car specifically, of course, but there are many others.
I have been told that it is because ATF has lubricating qualities equal or superior to gear oil in these sorts of applications (not so sure about differentials, with their higher shear forces), and since it's thinner, creates less running resistance.
I am hesitant to use it in equipment designed for gear oil, though.
Just doesn't seem right.
- Eric
I know about my own car specifically, of course, but there are many others.
I have been told that it is because ATF has lubricating qualities equal or superior to gear oil in these sorts of applications (not so sure about differentials, with their higher shear forces), and since it's thinner, creates less running resistance.
I am hesitant to use it in equipment designed for gear oil, though.
Just doesn't seem right.
- Eric
March 2nd, 2012, 06:53 AM
#95
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I assume new FWD cars use the same stuff in the "transaxle" since they are all in one case. I never thought it would be thin ATF.
It was a young kid at jiffy lube 10 years ago who told me this and put the wrong stuff in my Ford. I figured it would be okay for the drive home and maybe it would help clean it a little before I drained it and refilled it. If it was not for that being scheduled, they would have been giving me a free axle oil change with 80-90!
If he had any common sense, he could have at least asked me what goes in it. The owners manual is in the glove box, too!
See this is why I do not want to have my older cars serviced by those who work on new cars. Even during an oil change, they are supposed to top off fluids. Not only can they use who-knows-what fluids, but they sometimes really TOP them off (read "overflowing")!
It was a young kid at jiffy lube 10 years ago who told me this and put the wrong stuff in my Ford. I figured it would be okay for the drive home and maybe it would help clean it a little before I drained it and refilled it. If it was not for that being scheduled, they would have been giving me a free axle oil change with 80-90!
If he had any common sense, he could have at least asked me what goes in it. The owners manual is in the glove box, too!
See this is why I do not want to have my older cars serviced by those who work on new cars. Even during an oil change, they are supposed to top off fluids. Not only can they use who-knows-what fluids, but they sometimes really TOP them off (read "overflowing")!
March 3rd, 2012, 09:59 AM
#96
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I will check and see if there are any recommendations on or inside the PS box on what fluid to use .... any ideas what size flare wrench I need ? I did a little research on this and it seems you can buy them in a set at the hardware store , and the biggest size in the bunch was 5/8" on one end and 11/16" on the other . I'm pretty sure it's one of those , I know its not 3/4" so I may have to take a gamble and just buy it . I will also have to do this secretly
because of the owners , which will not be easy ... Here's a picture of our wonderful weather to look at until i'm back .
because of the owners , which will not be easy ... Here's a picture of our wonderful weather to look at until i'm back .
March 3rd, 2012, 10:25 AM
#97
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Unfortunately my car is tucked away and I can't put a wrench on the PS flare nut right now. I know it was a large one so you're probably right about the 11/16. Could even be 13/16".
You sure live close to high voltage power lines. Not my favorite....
March 3rd, 2012, 10:57 AM
#99
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Bryon, look in your Owners Manual. It says to use Dexron 3 if you can't find the listed PS fluid. Trying to find a 40 year old listing? Yuch, but Dexron 3 is Dexron 3. You can also use Dexron 4,5 because they are backwards compatible.
Unfortunately my car is tucked away and I can't put a wrench on the PS flare nut right now. I know it was a large one so you're probably right about the 11/16. Could even be 13/16".
You sure live close to high voltage power lines. Not my favorite....
Unfortunately my car is tucked away and I can't put a wrench on the PS flare nut right now. I know it was a large one so you're probably right about the 11/16. Could even be 13/16".
You sure live close to high voltage power lines. Not my favorite....
ha ha , for some reason , the last three apartments we have lived at had power lines close by .... there must be a lot of power lines in the world .
March 3rd, 2012, 11:00 AM
#100
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Power Steering Fluid No. 1050017 or equivalent
GM power steering fluid Part No 1050017* - if not available use DEXRON® automatic transmission fluid
FWIW, I asked a certified mechanic with thousands of cars under his belt if ATF was ok. He told me he used to work in the high arctic and would routinely swap out PS fluid for ATF because it performs better; especially in cold climates. Other members here with a lot of mechanical credibility also recommended I use DEXRON® instead of PS fluid. I also had a hard time finding PS fluid that was rated for a 40 year old car. No problem finding DEXRON® though, and it's not expensive either.
March 3rd, 2012, 11:33 AM
#101
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The 1972 CSM (page 9-55) states: The Owners Manual gives a defining value to what 'equivalent' is. It (The 1972 Owners Manual) provides info on page 69 under 'Lubricant':
*All materials listed under Part Numbers may be obtained from your authoirized Oldsmobile Dealer. (I doubt you would find any of it at any GM dealer nowadays.)
FWIW, I asked a certified mechanic with thousands of cars under his belt if ATF was ok. He told me he used to work in the high arctic and would routinely swap out PS fluid for ATF because it performs better; especially in cold climates. Other members here with a lot of mechanical credibility also recommended I use DEXRON® instead of PS fluid. I also had a hard time finding PS fluid that was rated for a 40 year old car. No problem finding DEXRON® though, and it's not expensive either.
*All materials listed under Part Numbers may be obtained from your authoirized Oldsmobile Dealer. (I doubt you would find any of it at any GM dealer nowadays.)
FWIW, I asked a certified mechanic with thousands of cars under his belt if ATF was ok. He told me he used to work in the high arctic and would routinely swap out PS fluid for ATF because it performs better; especially in cold climates. Other members here with a lot of mechanical credibility also recommended I use DEXRON® instead of PS fluid. I also had a hard time finding PS fluid that was rated for a 40 year old car. No problem finding DEXRON® though, and it's not expensive either.
.I see in the CSM where it says what fluid to use , thanks .... as soon as my wife gets back with the other car , I'm gonna go to the auto store.
Last edited by oldsguybry; March 3rd, 2012 at 11:51 AM.
March 3rd, 2012, 02:07 PM
#102
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Did a quick search at O'Reillys. They have Valvoline PS fluid. Interestingly enough the specs list the GM requirements right out of the book (only 6.69)
Detailed Description
- Meets GM, Ford and Chrysler specifications
- Keeps seals and o-rings pliable
- Prevents leakage and squealing under severe conditions
- Prevents wear, foam and oxidation
- Protects against pump breakdown
- Meets GM part number 1050017 (Spec. 9985010), Chrysler Spec. 5391 and Ford Spec. M2C128C&D
- Not for use in Honda or Acura vehicles
March 3rd, 2012, 10:13 PM
#103
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The only thing I managed to do today was get the oil changed on both vehicles , and added a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil as my 5th quart on the Cutlass. I noticed it was still short about half a quart , according to the bottle it should be full. I also got a PCV valve and the PS fluid which is equivalent to 1050017 , so I'm gonna give it a shot as early as possible sunday and go from there .
March 4th, 2012, 04:44 AM
#104
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Every other company is putting 14oz in their 16oz containers - why not Castrol and Kendall?
And DON'T overthink the P/S fluid! ATF is fine. Everybody in the world has been using it for fifty years.
- Eric
March 4th, 2012, 08:00 AM
#105
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Take a close look at all the bottles - do they all say "32 ounces"?
Every other company is putting 14oz in their 16oz containers - why not Castrol and Kendall?
And DON'T overthink the P/S fluid! ATF is fine. Everybody in the world has been using it for fifty years.
- Eric
Every other company is putting 14oz in their 16oz containers - why not Castrol and Kendall?
And DON'T overthink the P/S fluid! ATF is fine. Everybody in the world has been using it for fifty years.
- Eric
I never had that happen before , so either it was that nasty Taco Bell or I have an Ulser . 
... or worse ! If I feel up to it I'll do the repair , otherwise I'm heading to the doctor tomorrow.
March 4th, 2012, 08:35 AM
#106
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How much blood?
Just a drop, or a fair amount?
Anything that looks like coffee grounds?
Have you been pooping anything black, tarry, and odd-smelling?
Belly pain?
Been sick lately?
Low energy / easy to get out of breath lately?
Ever have this before?
- Eric
Just a drop, or a fair amount?
Anything that looks like coffee grounds?
Have you been pooping anything black, tarry, and odd-smelling?
Belly pain?
Been sick lately?
Low energy / easy to get out of breath lately?
Ever have this before?
- Eric
March 4th, 2012, 08:43 AM
#107
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Oil has been victim of the grocery-shrink-ray for years. Remember when the 4 quart containers flooded the market? Notice it is going back to 5 slowly?
This had to have been the dumbest shrink....
Take care of yourself, first, if possible. This happened to me last month - had a very bad sinus infection, one I's rather not repeat!
This had to have been the dumbest shrink....
Take care of yourself, first, if possible. This happened to me last month - had a very bad sinus infection, one I's rather not repeat!
March 4th, 2012, 08:53 AM
#108
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I use to have a lot of stomache problems , but when
I stopped drinking years ago it went away ( not that I was ever bad ) but drinking gave me stomache problems daily
Last edited by oldsguybry; March 4th, 2012 at 08:58 AM.
March 4th, 2012, 09:02 AM
#109
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Oil has been victim of the grocery-shrink-ray for years. Remember when the 4 quart containers flooded the market? Notice it is going back to 5 slowly?
This had to have been the dumbest shrink....
Take care of yourself, first, if possible. This happened to me last month - had a very bad sinus infection, one I's rather not repeat!
This had to have been the dumbest shrink....
Take care of yourself, first, if possible. This happened to me last month - had a very bad sinus infection, one I's rather not repeat!
March 4th, 2012, 01:36 PM
#110
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FWIW ... I was always had a high immune system ... before kids , I never got sick , never got the flu , and a cold would not hang around very long compared to others ... anyways I'm not gonna get to the repair today , I'm not feeling up to it ... I hope the car holds out till I can get to it.
March 4th, 2012, 01:48 PM
#111
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So what you're saying is that if you get rid of the wife and kids you should be ok???
Bryon, don't know what you got but anytime you start puking blood that's not good. Don't wait. Get checked over right away. It could be related to what you had before but I'm not a Dr. You have anything to drink while you were out and about?
Bryon, don't know what you got but anytime you start puking blood that's not good. Don't wait. Get checked over right away. It could be related to what you had before but I'm not a Dr. You have anything to drink while you were out and about?
March 6th, 2012, 10:19 AM
#114
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Now the rebuilder of my whole power steering system instructed me to use all - and only - Dexron 3. He said it lubes better and runs the system quieter.
After rebuilding thousands and guaranteeing them for life, Dexron must be good!
March 6th, 2012, 10:25 AM
#115
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March 6th, 2012, 11:07 AM
#116
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I'm Back ... Kinda
It looks like I'm gonna live . I managed to replace the PCV valve ( Does not seat all the way down ) , and here is a set of flare wrenches my friend borrowed me ( biggest end is 1" ) ... It's beautiful outside , so I'm gonna shoot for the PS repair tomorrow hopefully ... my wife left her car here long enough for me to replace one of the windshield wipers ( I think it's original )
I managed to replace the PCV valve ( Does not seat all the way down ) , and here is a set of flare wrenches my friend borrowed me ( biggest end is 1" ) ... It's beautiful outside , so I'm gonna shoot for the PS repair tomorrow hopefully ... my wife left her car here long enough for me to replace one of the windshield wipers ( I think it's original )
March 6th, 2012, 11:24 AM
#119
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FWIW my wife's car had the original blades for 10 years and they worked fine. You can re-condition the wiping surface periodically by wiping them down with vinegar. My 72 has blades that are now coming on 28 years old and they still work fine. (have spares just in case).Didn't know you had a 455 in that CS. No wonder you like using it for a DD.
March 6th, 2012, 11:55 AM
#120
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YES! Glad to hear you're getting better. You're going to replace a ww blade that's still 1/2 good? FWIW my wife's car had the original blades for 10 years and they worked fine. You can re-condition the wiping surface periodically by wiping them down with vinegar. My 72 has blades that are now coming on 28 years old and they still work fine. (have spares just in case).
Didn't know you had a 455 in that CS. No wonder you like using it for a DD.
FWIW my wife's car had the original blades for 10 years and they worked fine. You can re-condition the wiping surface periodically by wiping them down with vinegar. My 72 has blades that are now coming on 28 years old and they still work fine. (have spares just in case).Didn't know you had a 455 in that CS. No wonder you like using it for a DD.
.
Last edited by oldsguybry; March 6th, 2012 at 11:58 AM.
