When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Instead of taking my range rover to the dealer for a $350+ oil change I decided to do my own topside service. Yep that’s how the dealer does it, not sure how Land Rover gets away with almost $400 after tax for barely a half hour service. This was my first ever, and certainly not my last, topside change.
Actually kind of fun, of course you need the proper tools - 90 mm 15 flute oil cartridge filter removal tool and a 9 quart fluid extractor. 8 1/2 dirty quarts later I’m ready to fill it back up. Topside oil filter = ez access. Took all of about 20 minutes and no crawling around on the floor or worrying about jackstands.
Thanks for nothing BMW, no dipstick or oil tube in fill area that goes all the way to the pan like Land Rover. Anyone else try a topside oil service on their other vehicles, or even their Oldsmobile?
That's such BS.
The new automotive industry is such a **** storm. Near zero driveway serviceability. It all needs to go back to the Stealership at 1-2-300/hr labor. Wait till you need a brake job at $2K!
Please take me back to a simpler time. Beam me back Scottie
Be glad you don't have a Lambo Mas or something like that. That's a 1K plus routine service. Champagne included.
Im currently looking for a desert baked late 60s early 70 pick-up/Burbon....Because I dont want to spend 80 large for a dam pick up I can't service or afford or want to afford. 1200/month payment are you kidding. Ill drive my 11 till it and I are dust.
EVERYTHING older is better. No dip stick... Rocket science.
Not too bad when you buy things the right way! We have 2 Silverados 8 qts of full Synthetic and Napa gold filter and with sales tax I can get it done myself for $30. Dealer wants $80. I feel more comfortable taking my time and doing an inspection of the under carriage and safety check. By the time it takes to drive to the dealer wait and pay for it, I can be done at home.
I've got a Dodge Magnum wagon for a DD, do most of the work myself. Though I love the wagon part, reasonable cargo capacity, and can be locked in, I hate the engineering! I've had to replace almost the entire front end 3 times already, in 150K miles. ow it's clunking again! Tried to do a trans service, they don't even have a dipstick. Dealer does it from up top, but me, being old fashioned, had to drop the pan and do it. Very difficult figuring out if it had enough fluid, as I put new ATF (special Mopar bend, too). The only easy part, which I was shocked to see, was the timing belt replacement.
A friend of mine has a late model Mercedes and he says an oil change costs him a thousand bucks. But gee, for that thousand he is called by name and sips sherry while he waits. I can buy my own damn sherry. What else they do besides actually change the oil I don't know, probably a 10,000 point check of the belts and other parts they will say need changing.
Not too bad when you buy things the right way! We have 2 Silverados 8 qts of full Synthetic and Napa gold filter and with sales tax I can get it done myself for $30. Dealer wants $80. I feel more comfortable taking my time and doing an inspection of the under carriage and safety check. By the time it takes to drive to the dealer wait and pay for it, I can be done at home.
Pat
where are you getting 8 quarts of synthetic and a filter for 30.00?
A thousand bucks buys an upscale escort service. You're still getting screwed, but...
Customer whose wallet has just been pinched: "Tell me again why an oil change has cost me a grand?"
Smarmy service manager: "Sir/Madam, if you can afford one of our cars, you can certainly afford our service! And we make our cars so that only our technicians can do the quality of service you expect on our exceptional cars!"
You're paying that kind of money for their "exceptional cars", the damn thing shouldn't NEED much service. But there's a lot of pure profit in dealer service, and a lot of pressure on service departments to upsell.
Dealer service is a huge profit center. I didn’t mind using them with my certified vehicles when the service is ‘free‘. But beware: dealers know this creates a dependent customer, and that free service costs much in the long run - as robotic consumers continue utilizing outrageously over priced dealer services. While having their name called, and enjoying hors d’oeuvres and Pinot.
I’ve only purchased one new vehicle in my life - a really great 1985 Toyota Supra - drove it off the showroom floor. Sold it two years later for more than I paid. Then came 25 years or so of company cars - Ford Taurus, et al - great benefit but fairly boring drives. After that, realized I could purchase certified four year old BMWs or range rover‘s for a third of their original sticker price, and have a very well engineered and beautiful ride at Toyota/Honda prices. And do most maintenance myself, and sell them for basically what I paid.... I don’t like Pinot anyway.
Last edited by vCode442; December 13th, 2020 at 10:32 AM.
I like my Grand Marquis for ALL those reasons. Would like to find a Roadie or Caprice, preferably a wagon, but they're scarce around here. Forget a 91-92 Custom Cruiser. Nonexistent.
I short term leased a 4Runner from my company for 5 months to do a LOT of driving. It needs an oil change, so I decide I'm not paying the dealer and I don't have the time to make an appt. Lots of skid plates, like my Tacoma. Extra removable plate under pan, ok, off it goes, oil comes out.
The front skid plate is huge, and hinges on tabs from the front once the bolts are out. It's designed to flop down when on a lift for service, but is too long to go straight down when on the ground. Stupid. So, I get it off, and, after getting a large socket, apply the Force of the Lord to it with a breaker bar. No dice. I'm going to break the housing first.
Plates back on, fluid only change. Screw it, and I KNOW the dealers don't change those filters.
Used a topsider for about twenty years. It removed more oil than through the drain plug, test it by pulling the plug and then going back with the topsider, you'll get more oil out.
Some folks like to think they are getting a better quality work at the dealer, that's often not the case as "A" or "B" level techs are not doing oil changes and they never knew your car was in the shop. Lube, oil and filter's (LOF) are most often done by lube techs.
Dealers also buy oil in bulk. Do you know what they are using, is it the proper weight, does it meet the spec's, was it filled to the proper level, was the drain plug STRIPPED? My preference is to do my own oil changes.
where are you getting 8 quarts of synthetic and a filter for 30.00?
I get Napa golds twice a year on sale for half price around $4. When Meijers has their store brand on sale which is Citgo and is full synthetic dexos approved. Two five quarts jugs $16.89 for the first and $8.45 for the second.
When others finally go electric, that should put an end to dealership scams.
What makes you think that? The only way to repair a Tesla is to send it back to Tesla. There are no repair manuals available for it. Some guy tried making his own, and I think Tesla went after him for it.
We had a thread on electric-powered vehicles. It was supposedly closed because of political or religious or both comment.
Tesla isn't necessary the hallmark of electric vehicles. Maybe, theirs are throw-aways like Japanese-made CVT transmissions. But, there are others who keep things simple:
This top side oil change is new to me. I am surprised to hear it being used for 25 years! Are you saying there is no drain plug on these newer vehicles? Wow!!
I've been driving my 07 Grand Marquis for 12 years, It wasn't cheap since I bought it only one year old but it was worth the money and has been rock solid dependable. It has some of the typical Ford do dads that fail but all have been fairly cheap and easy to fix. So far my biggest repair was the infamous 4.6 intake manifold leak that stop leak remedied until I had the time to replace the intake. It took some time but it was very straight forward to disassemble and put back together. I love the ride it gives and it has a huge trunk. I hate newer cars.
This top side oil change is new to me. I am surprised to hear it being used for 25 years! Are you saying there is no drain plug on these newer vehicles? Wow!!
There is a drain plug, but the access to it with skid plates can be challenging. Again I was surprised how quick and easy the topside change was, especially with the filter up top - there was absolutely no need to crawl underneath, and that’s appreciated even more as I get older.
Last edited by vCode442; December 14th, 2020 at 09:55 AM.
Thus the moniker STEELERSHIP. Crooks! Going to the dealer whether to buy a car or service is like a root canal, prostate exam and frontal lobotomy combined.
1. Replaced rear pinion seal under warranty...35K later Im ferreting out a high speed vibration. I discovered the pinion yoke had a lot of slop, 0.100" of slop! I broke the rear axle apart and rebuilt it correctly. Fortunately no gear damage. They did minimal short cut work and charged for the correct way stated on the manual. Now 35K later Im screwed. Wheres my money. This included new u joints and re-balanced shaft for no good reason.
2. Warranty replacement of outer tie rod and track bar. After the repair noticed a squeak like bad Ujoints. Traced it down to the front rotor wobbling and making the caliper pad springs oscillate/squeak. Root cause rust behind the rotor cap causing extreme rotor run-out. Pulled rotor cleaned applied anti seize re-torqued wheel...my hour lost. Wheres my $135 plus tax.
3. ECL on dash. Trouble code P0451= tank fuel presser sensor. quoted $1300. The part is supposed to be $650. I did the job for $200 with FoMoCo parts. See the trend.
To Change 16 spark plugs in the 6.2 gaser in the F250....Quoted $500 if no COP boots break. I see this as an $800-1000 dollar spark plug change minimum. You know they will take the plug threads out. They will horse them out with pneumatics and jamb them back in with zero lub on threads or dielectric grease on boot tips...That means helicoils or head removal....see where Im goin. Thank god its not a 5.4L 3 valve with the lovely 2 piece spark plugs! Thats a $5000 plug change.
No thanks Ill spend the $ on 16 Autolites and take my time and do it in the summer and have enough leftover to buy a keggerator with a full keg.
Just some examples of why I do my own work while my body allows it.
Why not I have to go behind everything they touch anyway.
Thank god I have the ability and tools to do this. Feel sorry for the masses that haven't a clue.
Last edited by droldsmorland; December 14th, 2020 at 07:30 AM.
I'm on my second MityVac topsider, wore the first out...works great on a lot of cars but on some they either don't have a dipstick e.g., our '08 BMW or the dipstick tube is just too narrow. When they have access they work very well.
@ Droldsmorland, Recently did plugs in my 6.2L. Replaced wires and COP boots with Denso and new OEM plugs. About 4 hours taking it easy. Ran no differently afterwards and that was with TWO broken plug insulators I didn't know about even while towing 8,000 lbs all over the place. I really am impressed by the 6.2l gas engine now @ 160,000 miles.
I've got a Dodge Magnum wagon for a DD, do most of the work myself. Though I love the wagon part, reasonable cargo capacity, and can be locked in, I hate the engineering! I've had to replace almost the entire front end 3 times already, in 150K miles. ow it's clunking again! Tried to do a trans service, they don't even have a dipstick. Dealer does it from up top, but me, being old fashioned, had to drop the pan and do it. Very difficult figuring out if it had enough fluid, as I put new ATF (special Mopar bend, too). The only easy part, which I was shocked to see, was the timing belt replacement.
There is a OTC service tool for the Nag 1 trans. Yes, it is a dipstick. I bought it when we had our 2010 Challenger. What motor? Hopefully not the 3.5 POS. The ZF 8 spd on our 17 Challenger GT has only a plug, must be hooked up with a scan tool and the plug pulled to see if fluid comes out at a certain temp. The filter and pan are one piece. The pan/filter and the green ZF fluid is expensive. The top cartridge engine oil filter is super easy to change on the 3.6 Pentastar, just use a torque wrench to tighten it. Outside of oil cooler dumping oil on the intake, 17 and up are the improved cooler and early head cracking issues, the 3.6 go many trouble free miles.
I really, really do not look forward to ever buying a new vehicle. I am currently driving the wife's hand me down 2006 Volvo V70R, which I hope will be the newest vehicle I ever drive. Turbocharged, intercooled, 300 hp, 300 ft-lbs, 6 speed manual transmission, adaptive sport suspension, and "greenhouse like" glass all around with no blind spots make it a blast to drive. No nanny devices (lane departure, warning sensors, auto braking, TPMS, backup camera, blah, blah, blah) to interfere with my driving enjoyment.
I'm on my second MityVac topsider, wore the first out...works great on a lot of cars but on some they either don't have a dipstick e.g., our '08 BMW or the dipstick tube is just too narrow. When they have access they work very well.
@ Droldsmorland, Recently did plugs in my 6.2L. Replaced wires and COP boots with Denso and new OEM plugs. About 4 hours taking it easy. Ran no differently afterwards and that was with TWO broken plug insulators I didn't know about even while towing 8,000 lbs all over the place. I really am impressed by the 6.2l gas engine now @ 160,000 miles.
Sugar Bear TX for the info.
How did the plugs come out?
Did you break the boots? Should I just plan on just purchasing a wire/boot set?
I have 80K on the clock. So not quite ready.
How did the plugs look at 160K?
Did you go through the wheel wells for the lower 8?
This 6.2 really moves this 4 ton barge along well. I raced my buddy's 15 Dodge 1/2 ton Hemi. Had him by a fender(me doing the shifting). We did the same thing again with equal loads(Quads & trailers). I pulled him again.
I just rented an Arcadia with the electronic steering thing. I couldn't keep it between the lines. You want to get pulled over for suspected DUI buy one. What a joke. Dam thing wandered like I spend the afternoon slamming 20oz beers. Gives new meaning to "keep it between the lines". Thankfully I figured out how to turn it off. Of course, it resets with each key cycle. Fine job Big Bro & Detroit...gah!
I will never be without an analog early 70s or older vehicle simply because maintenance is a breeze and there is zero big brother junk to get in the way of enjoying the ride without something trying to do otherwise or send you to the Stealership for a grand to fix some sensor not working. I'm the dam sensor! lol.
There is a OTC service tool for the Nag 1 trans. Yes, it is a dipstick. I bought it when we had our 2010 Challenger. What motor? Hopefully not the 3.5 POS. The ZF 8 spd on our 17 Challenger GT has only a plug, must be hooked up with a scan tool and the plug pulled to see if fluid comes out at a certain temp. The filter and pan are one piece. The pan/filter and the green ZF fluid is expensive. The top cartridge engine oil filter is super easy to change on the 3.6 Pentastar, just use a torque wrench to tighten it. Outside of oil cooler dumping oil on the intake, 17 and up are the improved cooler and early head cracking issues, the 3.6 go many trouble free miles.
I have the dog clutched ZF9 behind the 3.2 in a 15 Cherokee. I want to stick rag in the tank and push it off a cliff. I can give you 20 reasons to not buy this 4K lb pile of junk. The trans is my #1 complaint. Ya the fluids $35 A QUART no dipstick! Ever try to shift one into drive from a roll? It's got 115 on it. I can't wait till I wreck it or trade it...truly a cumulative engineering pile of brown organic matter.
3 quarts of oil, a dipstick and drainplug. 3 sparkplugs of which don't need to be made with iridium tips intended to prolong maintenance intervals. Instead, I'm using cheap Russian-made Bosch plugs ordered from Amazon.
The injection system is of the early simple type and not of the modern where a small cut on the surface of a plug wire will throw the entire injection and ignition system out of whack like what happens on modern vehicles.
A real automatic trans which shifts hydraulically from within, without electronics and has a conventional torque converter and dipstick. It uses ordinary comparitively inexpensive Dexron II.
Rolled down windows with sunroof for air conditioning.
Greenhouse vision.
Six and a half more years, until it gets a historical license plate.
What more do I need? As they started saying over here, "Less is more"
Last edited by Killian_Mörder; December 14th, 2020 at 10:40 PM.
I'm with ya on that Killian! The old stuff is good enough for me. The problem here in Michigan is the salt use on the roads. Usually the body will rust away way before the old school engine/transmission/etc is worn out. What is it like in your part of Germany? Here in the US you have 400,000 mile 20 year old vehicles with good bodies and worn out drivetrains from New Mexico and at the other end of country, (Michigan) you have 60,000 mile rust buckets with excellent drivetrains but rusted to pieces that are actually no longer safe to operate!
My son has a Jaguar xj 2012, against my wishes! , no drain plug, he bought the evac and it uses some special oil, and we change it ourselves, the dealer was $750 for a oil change, my old 2001 Impala and new 2019 impala are super easy oil changes, they are trying to make all maintenance dealer only
boys girlfriend was over the other day,her 2011 durango was spitting fluid out of "something"as she said on the drivers side under the hood.so i look and it's the trans/differential vent.i said she was probably boiling the fluid,to which she says"now that you mention it my transmission is acting weird"i said check the fluid level.well she said they couldn't find a dipstick.i look around and found a dipstick tube but it has a cap over it.found out they make a tool to check the level.it's a dipstick with numbers on it you stick it in til it hits bottom pull out and see what number it's on.why not just put a damn dipstick in it?and then the dealer says 40 some dollars per qt.
Egad, reading these posts makes me glad I'm such a GM homer. No crazy high bills for routine maintenance items if I choose to have them done by someone else.
...The problem here in Michigan is the salt use on the roads. Usually the body will rust away way before the old school engine/transmission/etc is worn out. What is it like in your part of Germany?...
The winters here aren't as nasty, except up in the mountains where it's icey. So, most of the time down here near sea level, they don't salt the roads as often. This winter, only once. Travelling direct to where I mostly drive this car, I have to cross those mountain areas. Therefore, if I can, I simply avoid driving through there in winter or else take the long way around.
The red car pictured is the one of which I traded for a nearly rust-free identical model colored silver which is a year older. It only has some surface rust within the rear wheelwells which isn't a big deal. The brand is very susceptable to rust and the old lady who used to own it kept it in the garage. It only has just over 60.000 miles. I almost go nuts, when I see owners who own vehicles of this brand driving these cars in winter, since the brand pulled their representation out of Europe, in 2013, and is known for rusting out right quick. They could just get themselves a winter beater and then save their good cars for the rest of the year.
If it's too far to walk, I ride the bicycle. If it's too far to bicycle, I drive my 3-wheeler. If it's too far for that, I drive the car. Like my shop teacher used to say, "Use the proper-sized hammer for the job it's to do.".
Audis are built from sheet aluminum. The older ones used galvanized sheetmetal. Both stand pretty well against salt damage. The latter, as long as the galvanization doesen't get perforated. They're one of the best, for winter drivers. They're always either front- or four wheel drive
Last edited by Killian_Mörder; December 15th, 2020 at 01:59 PM.
I’ve got a ZF 8HP in my 650i, incredible tranny, 25MPG and 0-60 in 4.6 seconds. Amazing performance, love those numbers from my 4-4-2!
Edit - 27 MPG just had it out today and thats city/highway. Not too shabby for 425hp.
Yeah, we see as high as 37 mpg Imperial on Highway trips doing 70 mph. Even in the Winter we see 30+ mpg. Around 24 mpg pulling our 1000 pound boat. Impressive for a 4100 pound AWD car that runs 14's in the 1/4 mile. Sport mode makes it fun to drive, along with launch control. Yeah, saving $100 an oil change, doing it myself.
I've been using Fluid Film on my Grand Marquis and pouring a mixture of linseed oil and mystery oil into the rocker panels. So far it has kept much of the underside rust free. For the first 4 winters I drove it very little. It's now going on 14 years and after a wash still looks like a car of maybe 5 years old. Eventually though it will rust out and go to the junk yard with a beautiful interior and mechanicals that purr like a kitten.
December 12th, 2020, 09:17 PM
I agree with you, I'm doing my own oil changes on all of my vehicles from now on. 
