66ninetyeightls

2010 Canadian Oldsmobile Nationals

When: August 20 - 22
Where: Bracebridge, Ontario (New Location)

More specific details will follow once the club has sorted them out. You can check the below website for the most up to date information.

http://www.oldsclub.ca/Nationals/nats2010.html

66ninetyeightls

So for everybody within driving distance of this event. I am hoping we can arrange a meet (possibly at a coffee shop or speed shop close to HWY400) and then all cruise up to the nationals together.

What could be a better site than a long line of Oldsmobiles cruising up the 400.

69Rman

Yes, I've been quite bummed about this since last week when I found out it was going to be in Bracebridge.
I mean, I am sure that it's a nice town, but last year's location, Fanshawe Park is pretty well right in my back yard.
Unfortunately, I'm not too sure if I will be making it out this year.
It kind of sucks. From what I hear, the club and show itself are in need of some help, and I think this may not make it any better. Hopefully I am wrong and there's a huge showing this year, I know there's some members of these Olds forums up that way, but it is a long haul for me.
Trust me, I do want to be there, but I would want to be there for the whole weekend like last year, and the only way to justify that is by selling stuff while I'm there, which would mean a hotel, then meals, not to mention nowhere to keep all of the parts I would want to bring to sell while I was in the hotel for the night.
Possibly I'll make just a one day trip out of it just for the sights, but can't say for sure yet.
Duane

Red Delta

Why in the world would they move it from a somewhat centralized location to all the way up in the boonies?

derek nesdoly

As one of the OCC members who lives up here in the boonies , I resemble that remark! Please remember that that 1] OCC does NOT revolve around the Toronto metro area , 2] it took me 3 hours to drive down to the show in London last year , 3] the show has been held in other venues before[ Niagara], the OCA isn't just held in NYC or LA and 4] Bracebridge is less than an hour from my place!! Seeing as how this organization needs a serious boost , moving up to the beautiful Muskoka Lake country might just be what the doctor ordered. Besides, if you guys play your cards right, we could meet at my place in Barrie ahead of time for a pool party , then head up to the show , and finish up later at my island cottage in Muskoka !! ...Derek

442much

How many cars did you have last year?

oldsca

I live just north of Barrie and I have traveled the last two years 3 hours each way. It just gave me an excuse to spend some quality time in the Olds. I will make the trek again this year.

66ninetyeightls

I didn't have my olds when I attended last year. This year I look at it as an excuse to go for a nice drive. It is afterall the Oldsmobile club of CANADA not Southwestern Ontario. Most national level clubs move the venues around to suit all of its members so I see no reason why this one shouldn't as well. I honestly don't know why they are called the Oldsmobile Club of Canada since they don't seem to organize any events outside of Ontario (1 per year) that I have seen. Looks more like a provincial level club to me.

Bracebridge is definitely a beautiful area with great roads for driving.

One thing the club needs is a serious Webmaster that can clean up that website and get some serious advertising done for and on the website.

Last year was my first time attending this show and the weather was lousy all weekend. I'm hoping this year will be better so more people will be willing to attend.

Oldskeeper

I have been a member of OCC since the 80s and have grown tired of the jurney to london every year,now it's time for the show to move around.I like the idea of going to BRACEBRIDGE so quit your whinning and go for the drive.
I'm getting numb from listening to the complaining from the members that live close to london,I have taken both my cars to the meets and we northerners don't get all bent out of shape about the time or price of gas,we just do it.
In the past we have had members drive from NEW BRUNSWICK and CALGARY to london and not a word about the long drive,you drive an olds so what are you worried about,just do it.
Hope to see you in BRACEBRIDGE in August.
Steve
A member who thinks it's about time

442much

You had a participant from Edmonton in a 1972 Delta Conv. Driving is half the fun. Our car show is in the Town of Olds every third Saturday in July. We caravan from Edmonton (125 mi) and Calgary (60 mi.) It's a blast.

66ninetyeightls

I agree with both of you Ken and Steve. The drive is part of the experience. That is why we have these cars correct, to drive them?

I think OCC would be wise to not only organize one large function per year but also weekly or monthly meet at various locations. This way more members could participate and they might actually get more membership. I was originally interested in joining but after looking at the whole thing I can't see the benefit for the $$$.

oldsca

I agree everyone. I travelled down to PA last year for the OCA show. Didn't take my Olds but I had an awesome time.

In the words of my wife - "Suck it up buttercup"!!

Oldskeeper

Hi Ken,You have had a few OCC members make it to OLDS for your meet as well.
Yellowstatue and his daughter have done the drive,and a friend of mine used to be the head honcho Jamie ***.
The buick club moves their meet to a new location every year just like the OCA does and the NOCA spread it around now the OCC want to try this and we are getting slack from some members.This is a club for everyone who chooses to join and open to other to enjoy,it's about the people and the cars.
When we first joined the OCA the meet was in Grand island NY,close by and alot of fun.In the last quarter century it has gone all over the united states and came to Canada for the nationals in 1994,"come next door in 94" cool slogan and we had a great time.
So lets try Bracebridge and give the new management a try and we should all get behind him because if we don't alot of the membership will quit myself included as London has been dune to death,We have been there so many times that we have seen trees planted grow to maturity and die.
I have talked to alot of members over the years and they all feel the same way,it's time for a new venue.
Steve

69Rman

Yes, you got me!
If my car were on the road, I'd be wanting to drive up both days separately, just to enjoy the drives.
But I would be in my truck, not near as fun.

I agree that it is time for a change. I too have heard everyone complain about it being in London far too often. Hopefully it's a great turn-out this year. Not sure what the numbers were last year, but I'm sure it was only about 50 cars max. Possibly a few more, but not a very good turn-out.

I guess I was just "whining" because of the two day issue for me.
I love to go on the first day to meet everyone I can, and scout out the 3 vendors parts stashes, and the second day is usually when most of the nice rides roll in.

If I make it out this year, it'll probably be only for the second day.

Duane

jaunty75

Correction! The OCA Nationals are NEVER held in NYC or LA!!!

You guys all gotta keep one big thing in mind. Yes, it's nice to move the show around, and yes it's the Oldsmobile Club of CANADA. But Canada is a large, relatively sparsely populated country. The show necessarily needs to be held near the center of gravity of the country's population if it ever hopes to get consistently high attendance. Yes, you can hold it in Labrador or Yukon Territory and therefore satisfy the one or two OCC members who live in those places, but there will be three cars total in attendance.

Even the OCA doesn't move the nationals around as much as you might think. The center of gravity of OCA membership is Ohio and Michigan. Ohio alone has FOUR OCA chapters. By contast, Florida, a state with nearly twice the population and much better car show weather, has one chapter. California, a state with nearly four times the population as Ohio, has two chapters, one for the northern half, and the other for the southern. I can't remember the last time an OCA nationals was held in either California or Florida.

I think Ohio and Michigan are the two states with the highest OCA membership. As a result, about half of the OCA nationals are held in the general Great Lakes area. In looking back over the OCA nationals since 1998, you find that none have been held in California, only one on the west coast at all (Washington state), two have been held in Texas, two on the east coast (New Jersey in 2000 and Massachusetts this year) and six in the general midwest area (two in Michigan and one each in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and Illinois).

Now, of course, some of what drives the show's location is the enthusiasm of the local chapters, because they're the ones who host the shows and do all the work. Chapters apply for the right to hold a nationals, and they get awarded the same way the Olympics get awarded (sort of).

The OCC suffers because they don't have chapters (that I know of), and the entire organization has no more members (about 100?) than a good-sized CHAPTER of the OCA has. So it falls to the national organization to put the show together, and if there isn't a member on the organizing committee who lives in the area where they would like to hold the show, it makes doing the grunt work on the ground (contacting hotels, working with local officials about securing the show site, etc.) that much more difficult.

Yes, Bracebridge might be a pretty place, but it doesn't mean that people will be willing to bring their cars many miles to get there. One of the selling points in getting anyone to attend a show is the hope and expectation that there will be lots of OTHER cars there, so you'll have something to look at besides your own car and others to meet besides those who traveled with you. People will be reluctant to take their car to some remote location if they assume that the show will be sparsely attended. It's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Plus, keep in mind that holding the show near the U.S. border allows for the possibility for reasonable attendance by Americans living near the border. I, for one, attended the show in London last summer. I probably wouldn't be willing to drive to Bracebridge. (I know I'm not the basis on which the location of the OCC nationals should be made. I'm just illustrating a point! )

66ninetyeightls

And they are all very valid points!! I definately think that OCC needs to setup chapters across the country. This would help advertise the club locally and possibly increase membership overall.

wmachine

This is exactly the perspective that we all have to keep when it comes to meet locations. Always has been a "problem". Good to the few vs good to the many.
Case in point: the 2007 OCA Nats. Probably the lowest attendance in decades, so low OCA never did (that I saw) publish attendance figures. Lack of interest? Of course not, it was location: Washington State.
Another case in point: the Homecoming Meet in Lansing. A one day event that numerous times has had greater attendance than the OCA Nats. Again, it is location.
So it boils down to how far is the club willing to go to "be fair" to a minority.

jaunty75

Yes, but how can you do this in a club that has only about 100 total members? And I'll bet that most of those members live in the southern Ontario area. You'd have two chapter members in Alberta, three in Manitoba, etc., and how is that going to work? The problem for the OCC is that it's a small club membership-wise, and it's trying to cover a huge geographic area.

jaunty75

I think they have to do it occasionally to recognize that it is a national club, and they do that. But in the end, it'll be driven by attendance and money. By holding, say, four meets in every five in a high-attendance location makes it possible for the club to absorb the loss (however you want to define "loss") that comes in holding that fifth meet in an out-of-the-way place.


I've noticed this. I'll bet many people attend this in lieu of the nationals because it's right in their backyard and because they'll see at least as many cars as they would at a nationals.

66ninetyeightls

Has the club ever organized swap meets or auctions to help generate funds for the club? I am a member of clubs for other hobbies I have and they have 1-2 auctions per year and swap meets where people can get rid of excess, make a little $$ and the club gets a cut. They can also pickup parts or whatever they have been looking for from other members.

As far as chapters goes. They could start off with 3 western, Central and eastern. The only reason I heard about the club was because my brother in-law was already a member. Maybe also advertise in the OLD AUTOS magazine that we have in Canada. All clubs have issues attracting new members but we need to make them aware of the club first and second make it worthwhile to join. Club events, meetings, Cruises, monthly newsletters (Hardcopy or electronic) could all entice people to join the club.

jaunty75

If you're asking about the OCA, they collect their funds in the fees paid by anyone who wants a swap meet space at the nationals as vendors have to register. Local chapter shows have vendors as well, and they are required to register and pay a fee to the club. I don't think the OCA nor any of the chapters take a percentage of any vendor's sales. I don't think the vendors would stand for that.

As far as auctions, I don't know of any formally, but some clubs might do "silent auctions," where you walk around amongst the items for sale and write your bid on a piece of paper next to the item, and if someone wants to outbid you, they write their higher bid below yours. The name at the bottom when it's over wins. Usually the items being bid on would be donated to the club, and the club keeps the proceeds.

Oldskeeper

the OCC is a chapter of OCA,it is a local club with a big name whereas the northern lights is a club in good standing with OCA as well ( I think) when occ was set up it was the only olds car club around and has had a good following however ontario is alot bigger than just london,we could move it to Toronto or Kingston or Niageria falls but this year we should try Bracebridge.
For the last 5 years I have made the trek to Lansing just to see the cars and friends that can't make it to other meets.
Will be going to the nationals as well and might make it to the NOCA meet in Lansing as well.
Which ever way the club goes London has played it's self out and to get new blood we need to get out of the rut and back into the game and start enjoying our cars,cabin fever sucks and walking by my cars in the garage only makes me wish for an early spring
Steve

jaunty75

Good ideas all, but you're still faced with one inescapable fact. Canada, the second largest country in the world by land area, has a population less than that of California. A third of Canada's population lives in Ontario. Almost another third lives in Quebec. That leaves about 12 million people, a little more than Ohio's population, spread over all the rest of the country. While there just isn't that large a population base to draw from to begin with, it's the population DENSITY that's so low that it makes getting a critical mass of Olds enthusiasts in any place other than Quebec or Ontario difficult.

Oldskeeper

All of what Craig is talking about is being done right now,the membership should have recieved their newsletter by now and the website is being rewritten,everything in good time,thats what new management does they introduce new ideas and fresh blood into a club.

66ninetyeightls

Im not suggesting that the Nationals should leave the great lakes area at all because you are very correct in your statement regarding our population density. I do however think this one event should move around at least every few years in the general area of highest population.

66ninetyeightls

Awesome to hear!!

jaunty75

I notice the Northern Lights Chapter calls themselves a "chapter," and they have the OCA logo on their website. But one of the requirements to join any official OCA chapter is that you must also be a member of the national OCA itself. There's no mention of the need to join the OCA on the Northern Lights Chapter's membership page.

jaunty75

Yes, it should, and this is what the OCA does. But the OCA can survive the occasional year where the nationals, which normally draw maybe 400 cars when held in the midwest, sees attendance drop to maybe 100 cars if the show is held in an out-of-the-way location. Can the OCC, which maybe sees 100 cars in a good year, survive if attendance at a show held out in Alberta or Saskatchewan falls by the same proportion and sees maybe 25 cars?

66ninetyeightls

No I definately think a LARGE show like this in Alberta or Saskatchewan would be doomed to failure. A one day show or local Oldsmobile Cruise could be encouraged.

jaunty75

I'm sure the Northern Lights Chapter does this. Their website says they have about 95 members. I wonder how large a turnout they see at their car shows. More interestingly, I wonder from how far away they come.

1971 442 convert

Hi - can anyone tell me what the web site is for NOCA so I can check out the show dates etc??

Thanks

jaunty75

What is the NOCA?

The Oldsmobile Club of America (OCA) is at http://www.oldsclub.org/. You can find links to all the local chapters, as well as to other Oldsmobile clubs, here.

The Oldsmobile Club of Canada (OCC) is at http://www.oldsclub.ca/

The Northern Lights Chapter, which I believe is based in Edmonton, Albterta, is at http://www.oldsnorthernlights.com/index.asp

Oldskeeper

The NAOC is the national antique oldsmobile club and is open to all oldsmobiles 1966? and older.www.antiqueolds.org
My mistake had the letters wrong.
jaunty 75 you are in ohio so you might know Mike Cibulas he has an excellent 62 starfire coupe in black,he lives in north canton

1971 442 convert

Thanks guys

jaunty75

I know of Mike Cibulas, but I don't know him. He's involved with the Northern Ohio Chapter.

Yes, the NAOC is interesting in what Oldsmobiles it honors. It was founded, as I understand it, at least partly as a "protest" against the dominance of the Cutlasses and 442s in the Oldsmobile hobby. These cars tended to be most of what was seen at any Olds-related car show, and they tended to overshadow the older Oldsmobiles. So a club was founded specifically for those older Oldsmobiles, and I think when it was first founded, only 1960 and earlier Oldsmobiles were "honored" as '61 marked the beginning of the Cutlass era. That date has been creeping forward. When I had my '64 Jetstar 88 back in the early '90s, they were honoring up through '64, so my car could be a member. Now I see they're up to 1966.

I thought it kind of funny back then that they would allow the '64s in as that's more less taken as the beginning of the classic Cutlass/442 era ('64 to '72). I could see letting in the '61-'63 F-85/Cutlasses as those don't dominate the way the later ones do, and there are no 442s from that era.

So now they've let the proverbial camel's nose in the tent. With them moving up to 1966, they've now got THREE model years from the classic Cutlass era allowed in. When they get to the '68 to '72s, it will be all over. Even now, the point of having a separate NAOC is somewhat lost.

I understand WHY they've opened it up to later years. By limiting the model years honored, their membership will pretty much stagnate in size and slowly grow older. That will happen to the OCA eventually, too, as no more Oldsmobiles are being made, but it won't be for many years. But I would guess off the top of my head that the average NOAC member is over 60 years old. That doesn't speak well for the future of the club as they're not drawing in any new blood. The way to do that is to attract younger members, and THEY'RE interested in the Cutlasses.

Has anyone ever attended an NAOC show? I did, once, back in 1993, when it was held at a resort east of Morgantown, West Virginia. I took my '64 Jetstar. As I recall, there were two or three other '64s, there, all full-size, and maybe 50 cars total. (I have some photos somewhere. If I can dig them out, I'll maybe post some.) It was nice to see all that old iron, but most of the owners were older than the iron, and one could see even then that a model year-limited club like this didn't have a long future unless changes were made.

442much

Last year we had 75 Oldsmobiles come to the show. The long distance award went to a BC couple that drove 752 miles. The year before that the long distance was 702 from Manitoba. The record was a car from New Brunswick whom I believe had family here.

We have 101 members as of today in our club. We were a chapter of the OCA but dropped out due to the exchange rate at the time. There is no requirement to join OCA (although I am one of the Pacific Northwest Zone Directors), but we encourage it.

We have members in all western provinces, Ontario, AZ and TX. The fellows in Ontario and the US probably stay with us due to the 26 page newsmagazine. We keep it at 26 pages to save postage at so that we can still email it.

If anyone of you guys want a complementry copy of the current issue just email me at president@oldsnorthernlights.com and I'll send you one.

442much

I don't think it would, however I'm not the one who would push for this.
We have a one day show in the Town of Olds. Only one member lives in Olds so setting up means getting there before other participants do. Some stay at the local hotels so we have to get there early.

The town sponsers us as does the local GM dealer. The mayor comes to each show, the local RCMP, and the dealer hands out free hot dogs and soft drinks. The town donates $1500 for us to buy our club golf shirts with the Town website on the sleeve and businesses donate door prizes. You could say that our t shirts and golf shirts are all Olds.

Our club has been lucky in a sense that GM dealerships contact us and offer discounts to our members. We are so spread out. Before I left as president in 2002 we had members in South America and Europe and Hawaii and other states, Quebec, Nova Scotia and received donations from Oldsmobile to make a banner on our trip to the Centennial. Again, it's the newsmagazine that attracts these people, and we are not going to turn anyone away who wants to enjoy their car with us.

I have told people from Ontario that have inquired about our club that they are welcome to join us but that the club in Ontario is closer for any activities they want to do. When I've visit the OCC site I see that we share some members. People need a fix of Oldsmobile sometimes and I'm glad we can provide that.

People have suggested that we go for chapters in different parts of the west. I've downplayed that idea. We were supposed to be a local club but again, did not want to push anyone away. So we are a little bigger that I thought we'd become. And with the sponsers and returning members we are financially very, very healthy. So much so that this year at the show participants will have participant judging in 22 classes along with two long distance awards (one member / one non-member) the Oldest Oldsmobile at Olds and the Myor's Choice Award. Plus at every show every participant has always received a door prize (except last year when some left early).

This year we have to spend some cash so Mini-Oldsmobile artwork with easel will be given out too. The first in a series of 5. Then there is the banquest afterwards at the Royal Canadian Legion. A two day show is not something I would like to organize. Hats off to the OCC for their efforts. I've heard that their show is excellent and I wish them the best for this year too.

wmachine

I don't believe so. Not even partly. In 1981 when the NAOC was formed, Cutlasses and 442 did not dominate the Oldsmobile hobby. Quite the contrary. The Oldsmobile Performance Chapter had been formed and was just starting to pick up steam at that time because they were basically being shunned by OCA because they were not *old* enough. "Antique" cars were generally considered to be 25 years old, and in 1981, the first 442s were only 17 years old.

66ninetyeightls

Ken that sounds really interesting. hopefully when I am in Alberta doing training this summer I can arrange it around one of your events.

442much

You're always welcome Craig. July 17th is the date for this year. As I say to others, "The cars bring us together, but it's the people that keep us together."