TenMidgets

Hi Guys,

I am looking at purchasing a 1970 Cutlass that apparently has an original 455 engine, but is not an SX. Did these models exist? Its a 4bbl and owner states 365hp which is very exciting to me, but I wanted to check in here first with the experts to make sure everything is on the up & up? I thought only SX models had the 455's but please let me know if that is accurate or not.

Thanks,
Bill

m455sx

Yes they did exist. Did it have a build sheet? Or any documentation?

Allan R

Bill,
You sure picked an interesting forum name! Welcome aboard.
Now about the car: 1970 Cutlass Supremes with the SX designation all got the 455. However, there was other production as well: the f85, Cutlass, Cutlass S, and 442. All of these lines could be ordered with the 455.

1970 was the year Olds cracked a home run with their 455. The advertised hp could be less than the car actually had. Insurance costs were the big issue with performance cars after 1970. Some 455s were dyno'd with around 400 hp right out of the factory. The 'lower' advertised hp was to appease the insurance co.

What is the VIN or body style you're looking at? Just because it's not an SX doesn't mean its not a 455.

hookem horns

Motor could have been swapped, not a bad thing. Check to see if the motor matches the VIN. Number on the motor is on a pad hiding behind the PS bracket. Search the forum and there are pics showing where it hides. Might be easier to take a pic than to actually see it.

TenMidgets

Wow thanks everyone! I am going to see the car this weekend and hope to get a deal done if the car meets my expectations based on the photos.

Specifically it is a 1970 Cutlass Supreme notchback with apparently an original 455 that has been rebuilt and now has 28K miles on it. Its astro blue with a black vinyl top and seems to be cloned as an SX according to the owner. I don't have any VIN or documentation info yet, but I am new to the hobby and really just looking for an honest original car to enjoy on weekends that won't be too much of a project. The 455 however is a bonus cause I would have been happy with a 350!

vette442

If the car you're looking at is in fact a Supreme, this will be relevant:

I have been tracking 455 Supremes for the SX455 site since it existed (and for a number years before that). I know of at least two '70 Supreme hardtops with factory-installed 455s, but they are not Y-79 SXes.

Check the VIN stamp on both the block and the TH400 trans. Also, the 2 letter tag on the trans should be OD or (unlikely) OG.

Terry

TenMidgets

I am so crushed. Was supposed to go look at the Cutlass this morning, but last night the owner called and emailed saying the car was destroyed in a fire under very questionable circumstances. Of course I feel worse for the current owner because he loses everything, but MAN I wanted to buy that car!!

It had everything I wanted: color combo, OAI hood, notchback, price and a 455! Perhaps things happen for a reason but the thought of owning this car consumed me for the last week and I can't believe I am sitting here typing this. What a shame...

Bill

Jaybird

I have to question things as well.

Maybe the owner got cold feet and felt he wasn't going to get as much money as he wanted? Maybe he said that there was a fire just to end the sale?

Do you have a link to the ad that was posted?

Allan R

Man, that's a shame. When you say the fire was under 'very questionable circumstances', what does that mean? I would swing by and offer my condolences to the owner just to see if it really burned.....

We just went through a thread recently about people backing out of deals under circumstances similar to this. Not saying the owner is pulling a fast one, but you could certainly see it for yourself - if it hasn't been towed away or sold to a higher bidder?

w-30dreamin

My guess is the owner figured he could get more $$$ than the deal he struck with you so found an excuse to back out.

Keep searching,your car is out there...and right now it really is a buyers market.

TenMidgets

Well I received two very detailed emails with this owner expressing a lot of frustration of losing the car and swearing like a sailor about the person he thought who committed the arson. He also called me and left what sounded like a very sincere message. Apparently the storage shed he had the car in was shared by another person who had been arguing with the landlord and the Cutlass owner and torched it with the car in it.

Is it possible this is fiction? Does it sound shady? Yes, but at the same time why would he bother to give me so much info if its a story? I checked the classified ad page and he had pulled the ad. He also admitted to me on Friday that I was the only owner to inquire on the car and I expressed my serious interest so he had me lined up to buy, but I didn't even get a chance to make an offer.

Allan R

It is what it is. I can tell you one thing though. My personal property is stored on my property and is not 'shared' with anyone but my family. If I had a shed storage with a car in it, especially a collector car?. No way in hell I"m giving someone else access to it. He might have found out that he can make more money in parts than selling it. Is he making it up? Don't know. Does it hurt to drive by anyway and share in his grief? You decide. Anyone can put together a $%(#$& email and sound like a sailor. Anyone can also sound very sincere leaving a message. I'm surprised he hasn't called you back to make sure you got the message....

TenMidgets

He did make sure I got the message and emailed me this morning saying he was sorry he dragged me into his mess and wished me good luck in my search for a Cutlass and knew I had my heart set on the car.

To be honest I would go drive by but he lives in the Bronx and I don't know my way around there too well...

Allan R

Time to move on then. Good luck - as mentioned - you'll find another one.

MDchanic

That photo looks like it was taken in NYC, probably Queens, maybe Woodside.

I can tell you from having grown up there, I wouldn't trust anyone any where in the entire City to sell me a car. I have never met a more unscrupulous, lying, deceitful, unprincipled group of people than the group that encompasses every person (except me) who has ever sold a car in NYC.
Have I ever bought a car in NYC? Sure, lots of times.
Have I ever gotten screwed? Once, on Long Island, but every seller thought he was screwing me every time.

I don't believe that story for a second.

- Eric


Ha! I was close!

TenMidgets

Agreed, thanks!

gearheads78

At least he didn't say his wife backed over it with a back hoe or something.

kpl70sx

FWIW...that sure looks like an SX badge on the fender.

hookem horns

Did you see this one in the "for sale" section? Looks like a good deal on the east coast.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...eme-convt.html

DennisG.

Wow, what a bummer. If it were me I'de contact the seller again, offer your condolances again then let him know that you are interested in buying the car still for parts. Mention you are looking at another car now but would be interested in his for parts such as the 455. Just to see what he says.

On a side note. Some things that are often overlooked when buying a big block 68-76 A-body. Always look at the gas pedal to see if it has the 400 kickdown switch and make sure it looks like it's factory wired and not cobbled up. Next look at the firewall where the kickdown cable would go thru and see if it's plugged with the little plastic plug still or if it looks like it's been messed with. Now look at the frrame where the transmission crossmember bolts to. On an automatic car (T-400) it will bolt to the rear set of holes. Therefore there should be NO signs of any bolts ever being bolted to the front holes. This does'nt count for stick shift cars. The would use the front set just like a T-350 or the 2 speed trans. 68-72 cars will have a fender brace on the inside of the fender. They are hard to see so look for a stud/bolt just in front of the hood hinge on the fender. These are just a few easy telltale things to look for in a car you suspect may have been converted over to a big block.

droptopron

In down state NY its not uncommon. If he lived in the Bronx he could be an apartment with no storage what so ever so he had to take what he could get. As far as limiting access, I am not sure what the price was the guy was looking for but the pics don't make it look like a $75K car that the guy would secure like the Hope Diamond. By me (Long Island) it isn't rare to see collector cars in driveways year round because the owner doesn't have a garage. Winter 2010 I begrudgingly had to leave my car outside because we were getting work done on the house and I needed the garage for other things.

Allan R

Ok, so demographics determine how you store it. I don't know how it works down there; maybe he was taking advantage of a good opportunity to keep it out of the weather. I wasn't suggesting a 75k hope diamond special BTW, just a nice collector car. I was only suggesting that if it was stored in a shed (probably limited amount of space anyway) he would probably want to have exclusive access to it. So after all is said and done, it still is what it is....