Alocatelli

I would like to convert the generator on my '53 Olds 303 to a modern one wire alternator if possible and was wondering what would need to be changed for that to work with the rest of the electrical? Thanks for anyhelp!

Oldsguy

I remember reading this over on the H.A.M.B. You will also need to get a 12v to 6v converter for any accessories you don't change over to 12 volts. I tried to buy one from JC Whitney but they haven't delivered it yet, don't know if it is out of stock or what. They are available at other places though. I am using one to drive all the 6 volt lamps on the dash as I don't want to go to the trouble to change them, looks like I might have to or source one someplace else.

edit: drat! I forgot the link again......sorry

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...tor+alternator

Alocatelli

Thanks for the quick response. I have yet another question now. Was my '53 originally a 6 volt system? I know my 54 is 12V. I am asking because on my 303 in the '53 Olds the generator says delco remy 12 volt. I haven't fired up the car yet since it was in a barn since 1972 so can't say if any of the electrical checks out or not. Also need a battery.

Oldsguy

I am not sure but just mentioned my experience. If you generator is a 12 volt one then I bet the car was originally 12 volt. I do know that changes were made in the fifties but don't know exactly when. I bet someone here does though. Maybe Joe Padavano does.

joe_padavano

Well, exactly HOW OLD do you think I am????

I'm afraid I wasn't born in 1953 (1958 to be exact), so I don't know for sure on the voltage. I can tell you that my 52 Chevy truck is a 6 volt system. If the generator says 12 volts, I'm sure that's what's being put into the system. Check the battery voltage with a voltmeter. An easier check is to just look at the battery. If it has only three caps to add water, it's 6v. If it has six caps, it's almost certainly a 12v battery.

The actual conversion to an alternator is easy. If you have an ammeter gauge, your voltage regulator should have three wires. Two will go to the generator and the third will go to a terminal post somewhere (possibly on the back of the ammeter). Remove the generator and voltage regulator. Fab a bracket to mount the single wire alternator. Run that single wire to the terminal post noted above. If the system is a 12v system, you're done. If it's a 6v system, you'll need to change all the bulbs and get a voltage dropping resistor for the gauges. You can find these in most street rod parts catalogs. The 6v wiring works fine with 12v since the current is actually half. The 6v starter will also work fine with 12v and will spin a whole lot faster. I did this conversion on my 6v 52 Allis Chalmers tractor and it works fine.

Be careful when selecting a one wire alternator. Most Delco 10SI series alternators require the small resistance from the GEN light to get the regulator to turn on below about 1500 RPM. Some of the newer single wire alternators have an internal fix for this. You want one of those.

Alocatelli

Thanks for the great info. From the research I have done and just thinking more about it, I realize that Olds switched to 12v in 53 so that is not an issue. Also realized I could have probably answered my own question about the alternator conversion, having done simular ones before. I have ran into the issue of some of the one wire alts not charging below about 1500 RPM. Thanks very much for the info though and I am sure that during the course of this project I will run into something where I am completely lost and will have more questions.

Oldsguy

Oh it's not your age I was referring to, you just seem to have some knowledge and experience in this field. Actually, it turns out that I am older than you 1955.

joe_padavano

That's OK, I was just pulling your chain.

Eightbanger

Bringing this back from the dead...

I am having problems with my Generator and/or regulator on my 53, so considering going this route and changing over to an Alternator.

I may just buy new brushes for the Generator and another regulator, but my question is, can anyone recommend an Alternator to use on a 53? or recommend somewhere that sells conversion kits for this kind of swap?

Rocketowner

Nigel, there is a 13 1/2 minute video on "You Tube " called Converting fro generator to alternator that very thorough , that you will enjoy watching. It's from Moss Motors Lmtd.
Best of luck, Larry

Charlie Jones

^^^^ this, If you have an Olds shop manual you are already halfway there .
The shop manual outlines trouble shooting and testing these systems . The regulator may not even need to be replaced , the contact points inside may just need to be cleaned.
A lot of generators are replaced with alternators simply because the owner or mechanic doesn't want to take the effort to understand generator systems.

Octania

Yeah it might need to be polarized. The specifics are lost on me but I recall seeing that in a very, very old [older than Joe P] service manual.

Eightbanger

Thanks Larry, just watched it, like you said very informative.

I prefer the look of the Generator, and replacing the brushes is certainly the cheapest option as long as that fixes it, I pulled the regulator off the other day and although it looked brand new inside, I still cleaned the points.


I think you have to bridge two terminals with a piece of wire which creates a spark and that's it, but it doesn't say whether the car needs to be running when you do this, or off, or ignition on or what.

This is interesting, Powermaster makes an Alternator for the 53 Olds that is made to look like your old Genny...pricey though.

http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/item...ive-Ground.htm

MDchanic

You only need to polarize NEW regulators. You do not need to polarize the regulator that's been in there for years.

And, yes, diagnose the current problem using your manual, and then replace only the parts that you need to replace.

- Eric

Eightbanger

I want to move to Maine and live next door to Eric...

MDchanic

Nobody wants a neighbor like that, mate - hammers banging at all hours, paint peeling off the walls, I never cut the grass, and... the place looks like a bloody breaker's yard! (or so says my wife...)

- Eric

Eightbanger

Sounds good to me

I bought brushes from Rockauto, we'll see what happens.

oldcutlass

You might as well pickup new bearings while your in there. Clean the armature with some emery cloth, I like chucking it up in a lathe and then clean the gaps between the copper conductors.

Rocketowner

My '55 quit charging some time back and I pulled it and cleaned the armature and brushes,then took it to the rebuilder and when he checked it he said it was charging OK.
I brought it home ,put it back on and it never gave any more trouble. $$$ saved. Larry

stellar

Regulators don't need to be polarized. The genny does. When you flash the 2 posts at the reg it is the gen that is being polarized. It should not need to be polarized unless you somehow accidently reversed the polarity or possibly if it has been sitting for a long time. I guess just to be safe it would'nt be a bad idea to polarize it any way if your not sure.

oldcutlass

Polarizing only takes a minute and its not complicated nor will it harm anything. Its a good idea if the generator or the VR is changed.

MDchanic

I could've sworn it was the regulator...

Oh well.

- Eric

Tedd Thompson

You do it at the regulator (polarize it) because it is easier to get to but it's the generator that it is effecting..... Tedd

MDchanic

I swear I have seen and installed regulators that had printed warning that they needed to be polarized when first installed.

Maybe my mind is finally going...

- Eric

stellar

Polarize before starting the car. It doesn't matter if the ign is on or off.

Charlie Jones

Just to clarify things.
Generators are often polarized after installation of a new regulator.

To polarize a General Motors generator the field (F) terminal should be grounded .
Then touch a jumper from the battery (B) terminal to the armature (A) terminal momentarily.

Eightbanger

Many thanks for all the help and advice guys..

Thought you all might enjoy this.

redoldsman

Nigel:

There are companies that will convert your generator to an alternator and it will look just like a generator. They advertise in Hemmings Motor News. I have never priced them but I imagine they are expensive. You can put a one wire alternator on you car pretty cheap. I have one on my 54 and it is a 135 amp since I have electric fuel pump, fan and air conditioning. You will probably need to modify your existing mounting bracket or make a new one since the alternator will not line up exactly. There is a reason manufactures went to alternators. They work better.

MDchanic

Can't watch that now, but it looks like exactly the kind of film that we all need.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Love the coveralls and the hats.

Eightbanger

I'm close to giving up on this, I hate electrics I just don't get it....
Took my genny off, opened it up and cleaned it throughly, I got new brushes coming in the week, but for now everything seemed OK after the cleaning.
So put the genny back together and back on the car and did the polarising thing, I attached a lead to the positive of the battery on my daily driver, and touched it to the F terminal on the genny and I heard the contacts popping in the regulator...so I jump started the Olds and it's still not charging...I put my multi meter on the genny and on the battery with the Olds running, but I don't even know what these readings are telling me. Heck I don't even know why I own a multimeter because I don't know how to use them or read them.

Sorry about the sideways pics, sent from my cell and don't know how to turn them

oldcutlass

From your first pic, you need to get some fine emery cloth and clean the commutator so its a shiny copper color. Then take a sharp awl and clean gently between each of the gaps of the copper pads.

MDchanic

Basically, everything runs on magic smoke.
Once the smoke gets out, it's broken.
Since you have not seen smoke come out yet, you can fix this.


Well, you kinda cleaned it, anyway.

That commutator is fairly dirty, and really should be shiny.



Ideally, you need to chuck it up in a lathe and skim it until it is shiny, then clean between the contacts with a broken hacksaw blade.



Your brushes look fine - no need to replace them.






Your field coil is still showing a negligible voltage, implying a regulator problem, but now it's Negative - makes me wonder whether you've reverse-polarized the generator... Or something...







Your battery isn't charging.





- Eric

stellar

I'm not sure from the pics, but the insulation on the armature wires looks to be deteriorated a bit. Possible shorted armature. It also looks like there may be a ring of solder around the case inside, meaning the armature is open. Have a generator shop test the armature for you.

cjsdad

For the vast majority that don't have a lathe, you can chuck the commutator shaft in a drill press (on the lowest speed) and use a single cut file to G E N T L Y smooth the copper contacts. I use a file to keep the contact surface flat and doing it while it is turning will make sure the contour stays concentric. And like oldcutlass says, clean between the gaps so you don't have any debris between the contacts that will short them together. While not entirely necessary, it does give a nice sense of accomplishment to put something back together that is nice and clean. It is a good idea to use electronics cleaner because ti won't effect the insulation if the wiring like carb or brake cleaner can if it stays on long enough. It should evaporate quickly enough to not cause problems but not having a smoke pump I don't take any chances.

oldcutlass

not everyone has a drill press or lathe, you can wrap a rag around it and put it in a vise. Then take a narrow strip of emery cloth wrapped 2/3rds around the commutator and pull it back and forth to polish it. Just don't over work one single area.

MDchanic

... But you know you've been wanting a lathe for a long time now...

- Eric

oldcutlass

I have access to a lathe and drill press, but before that I made due. We need a mill now.

MDchanic

Y'know, you can get them VERY cheaply if you keep your eyes open - all modern machine shops are CNC, so excellent quality older machines are almost impossible to sell, especially considering what it takes to move them.
Most are sold off as scrap.

- Eric

oldcutlass

I agree, you should see the lathe we got.