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Guys have a relay that I'm going to wire to a Power Master mini starter. As seen in the diagram I'm wondering what color wire on the ignition switch( start switch to 86) under the dash should I use or is there an easier way? Also going run a wire from the horn relay terminal to 30. This should solve my issues with the starter being to hot and not turning the engine over...
You should find a yellow wire to the neutral safety switch, and purple coming out of the safety switch. Or it may be purple with a yellow stripe coming out of the ignition switch to the neutral safety switch, and then purple coming of the safety switch. I have seen GM cars with the starter wires marked either way.
I prefer this using a stock ford solenoid, disregard the coil connection if your running and HEI that has power in both start and run positions. No fuses. What your doing above accomplishes nothing but complicate the stock circuit.
The purple wire goes to 86 term on your relay or the S term on the Ford solenoid. Disregard the R terminal on the picture, your starter only has an S. I use this and I ran a wire from the I terminal and spliced into the HEI power feed at the BATT terminal to ensure power to the dist during cranking. It's been working like that since 2010.
First, neither the Ford solenoid nor this relay changes the fundamental problem with the GM starter - in both cases the solenoid on the starter must make contact for the starter to operate. The Ford solenoid adds several connections to the main battery cable, which in my view increases the potential for corroded or dirty terminals that reduce voltage to the starter.
The fundamental problem with the GM circuit is that the solenoid on the starter is sensitive to voltage drops. These drops can come in the battery cable, in the ground path, and in the START circuit. The latter is especially a problem since the start circuit runs from the battery through the firewall connector to the ignition switch to the NSS back through the firewall connector and finally to the starter. Any connections in this circuit are voltage drops, which will hurt starter performance. As the starter itself gets hot, it becomes more sensitive to voltage drops. While I don't know the details of the OP's aftermarket starter, the Delco starter solenoid uses a copper disk to contact the terminals in the solenoid end cap to close the circuit. The disk and the terminals get pitted over time, increasing resistance and voltage drop. ANY additional relay or solenoid is only a bandaid covering the real problem of excessive voltage drop.
Personally, if you must use a relay, I'd just use an environmentally sealed relay wired as shown in the first post, located as close to the starter as possible to minimize voltage drops. The connect the purple wire from the NSS (Not from the ignition switch) to the 86 terminal on the relay. This is simple to install without hacking the stock wiring.
I'll also add that NONE of this will fix the problem of a bad ground path. Be sure that is properly connected as well. The OEM starter brace is actually the primary ground path for the stater.
Where did you mount the Ford relay? on the firewall?
Mounted mine on the firewall next to the HEI. Ran a new battery cable to the solenoid and starter.
Originally Posted by therobski
Eric will this by pass my neutral safety switch?
No, your using the stock purple wire that used to go the starter S terminal and connecting it to the solenoid S terminal. The short jumper from the battery cable to the S terminal eliminates the voltage drop to the starter as the starter solenoid is activated when the Ford solenoid closes.
BINGO Joe: I'll also add that NONE of this will fix the problem of a bad ground path. Be sure that is properly connected as well. The OEM starter brace is actually the primary ground path for the stater.
Before I do anything, this is a Power master mini starter and there is no brace for grounding. The 2 bolts that attach the starter to the block is all that I used! That could be the problem? maybe?
BINGO Joe: I'll also add that NONE of this will fix the problem of a bad ground path. Be sure that is properly connected as well. The OEM starter brace is actually the primary ground path for the stater.
Before I do anything, this is a Power master mini starter and there is no brace for grounding. The 2 bolts that attach the starter to the block is all that I used! That could be the problem? maybe?
The Delco starter has a steel stator housing that bolts to an aluminum nose piece that bolts to a cast iron block. Galvanic corrosion between the steel and aluminum adds resistance to the ground side. On the Delco starter, the steel starter brace runs directly from the steel stator housing to the block. If you can run a similar ground strap on your aftermarket starter, that won't hurt.
When I can get to it this weekend, I will put an additional ground strap. If that fails I'm going to wire a 30amp relay. Questions is what wire to 86 do I use for start switch? If it comes off the ignition switch which one? Can I tap into the batt wire to the HEI?Also have a Painless 7 cirkuit boss that has either key on hot or constant hot...Can I tap into 1 of those for the start switch?
When I can get to it this weekend, I will put an additional ground strap. If that fails I'm going to wire a 30amp relay. Questions is what wire to 86 do I use for start switch? If it comes off the ignition switch which one? Can I tap into the batt wire to the HEI?Also have a Painless 7 cirkuit boss that has either key on hot or constant hot...Can I tap into 1 of those for the start switch?
Is this an MT or an AT? If this is an AT, don't take power directly from the ignition switch. Use the purple wire that comes off the NSS. The NSS is wired downstream of the ignition switch. If it's an MT, use the purple START wire from the ignition switch.
Joe, car has a highly modified 200-4R , I wired the purple wires the were attached to the original relay that was attached to the steering column under the dash back in 64, to a micro switch on the Bandit shifter. Works as it should. So could I tap into the purple wire that is attached to the S terminal on the mini or run a new one to 86 on the relay? Along with the positive wire they travel together up right next to the original horn relay where the positive cable from the starter terminates, then the purple wire travels into the harness that connects to the firewall. I'm almost brain dead from travel for work and all today, sorry for my confusion...
Joe, car has a highly modified 200-4R , I wired the purple wires the were attached to the original relay that was attached to the steering column under the dash back in 64, to a micro switch on the Bandit shifter. Works as it should. So could I tap into the purple wire that is attached to the S terminal on the mini or run a new one to 86 on the relay? Along with the positive wire they travel together up right next to the original horn relay where the positive cable from the starter terminates, then the purple wire travels into the harness that connects to the firewall. I'm almost brain dead from travel for work and all today, sorry for my confusion...
Use the existing purple wire.
There was no "relay" on the steering column. There was a switch that was actuated by the shift tube in the column. It was just a mechanical switch. Your use of those purple wires to the microswitch is correct, however that aftermarket microswitch may be your problem. The contacts in the microswitch are likely not sized for the current needed for your starter, thus your problem. I'd use that microswitch to power the relay you plan to use and call it done.
So, tap into 1 of the purple wires that goes to the neutral safety switch to 86 on the relay as the "start switch" When I get home I will start on it and get back to all. Thanks a bunch.
So, tap into 1 of the purple wires that goes to the neutral safety switch to 86 on the relay as the "start switch" When I get home I will start on it and get back to all. Thanks a bunch.
You have to tap into the right one - which is not the one that comes from the ignition switch. Here's an easy way to test - with the car off, put the shifter in gear. Turn the key to start. One purple wire to the microswitch will have power, one will not. The wire that does not have power with the shifter in gear is the one that goes to terminal 86.
Use the purple wire that was originally connected to the mini starter and run it to terminal 86 on your relay. Run the wire from terminal 87 of the relay down to where you removed the purple wire from the starter. Your not tapping into anything.
February 4th, 2019, 02:40 PM
