mickyb

Ok,

I removed the top/side mount bracket for my starter, removed the flywheel housing cover, and the two bolts holding the starter in place but it just won't wiggle out of it's space to join the rest of the world. It's just like a 1/4 inch too big for it to drop out.

I believe I am dealing with the ever fun heat soak problem that these guys are known for and want to replace.

70 Cutlass- 350- Stock single exhaust.

Any advice other than taking a Sawzall to it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

droptopron

On my 455 w dual exhaust I had to drop the head pipe

stellar

I think I used to push the *** end up and drop the nose end out first. Either that or pulled it back to the front of car then pushed the nose up and dropped *** end first. Can't remember. One of those ways should work

therobski

Put your starter back in and make a relay. Just finished mine not too long ago AND no more heat soak. A lot of info on how to do this and it's easy and low $$.

mickyb

Thanks for the tips. I will try to spend another afternoon trying to get this darn thing out.

matt69olds

Are the rubber engine mounts collapsed? The starters are a snug fit, but I can’t recall ever having one that just didn’t have room to remove.

mickyb

Morning Matt69, Now that seems very likely what is going on. I spent a good few hours trying to wrestle this darn thing out. Thanks for suggesting that as I will definitely look into it.

therobski

Mickyb back to my response I guess this not a heat soak issue? Replacing the starter will not resolve heat soak.

mickyb

Indeed I believe it probably is a heat soak problem. I would like to get cleaning up the contacts and inspecting all wires(less the main positive which I replaced- a bit tricky while in that position). There are times when the starter doesn't crank even when cold but not always however, it does not crank what so ever after a brief warm up. So perhaps the starter is the problem as well as the heat soak. I already replaced +/- cables, has a newer battery, replaced VR with a solid state one, new ground from engine to firewall, sanded rusty points of ground connections to many areas.

I finally got this car going after 8 month's of tinkering around with getting this old beast running(stuck valves, bent rods, new points, new hoses and radiator, new muffler/tail pipe, bleeding most of the brake lines/master cylinder). So I'm getting closer on getting it more reliable but this electric crap is holding me up.

I want to continue to plod forward with new tires, rim work, alignment items/steering items, etc..

VC455

Micky, allow me to fill in the details behind what Robski is advising you to do...

In our cars, a 12 ga main power supply runs from horn relay through Alternator and Forward Lamp Dash Connector to Ignition Switch, to Neutral Safety Switch, through Engine and Dash Connector, to Starter Solenoid.

The main power supply carries all power to the cabin to feed lights, blowers, radio, AND the starter solenoid. The solenoid alone requires 50 amps from the main power supply to pull in.

When the temperature of the wire in the engine compartment increases from 70 to 160 °F, the resistance of the wire increases 20%. With just the 50 A load this represents an extra 1 volt drop. This was the best case when the car was new. With age, add to this the drop from corrosion and erosion in the connectors and switches and pretty soon you’re talking about a considerable voltage drop. Many times, this increase in resistance is enough that the solenoid fails to engage or click when the engine is warm.

If you substitute a relay, only an extra 2 amps flows through that long 12 ga main power supply circuit. And the 50 amps for the starter solenoid comes through the relay directly from the battery.

That cuts out the temperature-caused voltage drop and the corrosion and erosion-caused voltage drops. It gives the solenoid more voltage than it got the day the car was born.

The good news is that you don’t need to remove the starter to get this benefit.

Note added later: If by "heat soak problem" you mean the starter turns slowly when hot, the relay won't fix that. To reduce that problem might take heavier gauge battery cable, better ground from engine to frame, higher CCA battery, and/or changes to the starter itself--all depending on your trouble-shooting when the problem occurs.

mickyb

Wow, thanks VC455 for mapping out the details and the thorough explanation! You make a great case for the relay. yesterday I had to do a high amp quick jump from my battery charger to get it to crank over. It was 83 and sunny here in Wisconsin. Would just that temp cause this to happen? The engine was cold too. It fired up without hesitation after that quick jump. Does Rock Auto have that relay? Regardless what relay Is recomended for this?

This is not a slow starter issue either. It either fires up or it doesn’t. When I turn the key I get no crank and in
almost all cases not even a click. When it does fire up it runs great considering I haven’t tuned everything up.

mickyb

BTW- This is whom we are talking about. Driven about 25 miles the last month. Before that it’s been out of commission for 10 years. It’s time to revive this girl.

droptopron

One other tidbit on this - if you do need a starter, don't go to a chain auto parts store & get one over the counter, They are so hit or miss. Find a reputable local rebuilder and buy from them or have yours rebuilt.

mickyb

Indeed. We have a local company which all they do is rebuilts.

VC455

• You should not have that problem at 83°. No crank indicates the voltage at the solenoid is low. Measure the voltage at the battery terminal before you try to crank--it should be close to 12.5--this sounds to be a battery or charging problem. Also check battery voltage when you turn the key. If there is no sound from the solenoid, the voltage should stay relatively constant.
• The relay is like the one that Ford used on the inner fender. You can find one anywhere. Put the S-terminal purple wire to the relay pull-in terminal. Run a 12-gauge wire from the battery positive to one of the large relay terminals. Run another 12-gauge wire from the other large relay terminal to the S terminal. If you mount the relay on your plastic inner fender, remember to ground the relay body.