When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
My wiring talents border on non-existent, so rather than screw this up, I'll ask a dumb question... I'm connecting the wires to the 9610 Powermaster starter and have one more wires than I have posts to attach to. The positive cable is self-explanatory, but I have yellow and purple. The wiring diagram shows purple as "solenoid" and the yellow as "Batt". The starter small terminal is marked "Ignition". Where do I go from here?
The purple wire is the start wire that comes from the ignition switch and NSS and connects to the starter solenoid. The yellow wire is the resistor wire bypass to the coil. The factory starter had a separate terminal for that. Powermaster sells a replacement solenoid with this terminal, as well as something called an "R terminal diode kit" according to those instructions.
Which means that if you are running points, you are only getting 9V to the points when you are trying to start the car. Eventually this will catch up with you in the form of hard starting.
I have this Crane XRi points conversion kit and when I first installed it the car would start very hard. I ended up sending it back because I didn't think it was sending a fire signal and they sent a replacement. I hadn't gotten around to installing it but last weekend my starter went (actually it ended up not being my starter, but that another story), so I replaced my 40 year old starter with a Powermaster 9510. I had read a bunch of these threads and was pretty sure I was going to have to install the diode or a relay so I PM’d Joe P and he recommended this relay and harness (I'll get back to the XRi below):
It was an easy install. I mounted the relay on the firewall (I put it where my chassis ground is). I used my convertible top hot side post to feed 12V+ (30(3) wire). I connected both the existing yellow and the purple to the “S” post on the starter. I cut the yellow an inch or so from the + coil connection, connected the blue (85(2) wire) to the side coming from the starter (which powers up when the key is turned to start), connected the red (87(5) wire to the other side of the yellow wire at the + side of the coil. There is one red feed (87a(4) that isn’t used. Finally, the black 86(1) wire gets connected to ground.
I’m fairly sure the original XRi wasn’t getting 12V when I was starting and there wasn’t anything wrong with it. This one fires right up. I still can’t get the timing figured out because it seems like I need to run initial timing at about 15 degrees to get it to run properly but I think others have had this issue too. I haven’t checked to see what RPM my mechanical advance is all in at but with points I was all in at 25 degrees at 2200 RPM’s. Once the weather gets better I’ll take it for a ride and see how it runs and adjust the timing accordingly.
Last edited by allyolds68; October 30th, 2017 at 05:27 AM.
Somewhat related question....car owned by a guy I know..
>70 442, 455 motor, etc
>Stock points/condenser distributor ignition
>The guy, sometime in the past, installed a IMI brand Hi Torque Mini Starter. These are apparently Denso starter-based units. His is the Pontiac/Olds IMI 908 model.
>Car starts fine when cold
>Starting searching through wires after he has this constant "it'll crank but won't fire when hot" situation. Typically, the motor will crank when warmed up or hot but doesn't seem to want to fire. Let it cool down awhile (couple of hours or even wait overnight) and it'll crank, fire and run. Starter, when cranking when the motor is warm/hot, sure doesn't seem to crank that well. Not super slow like you get when timing is far advanced BUT not nice and fast like it does when the motor is cold.
>Stock type alternator...internally regulated replacement alternator...not one of the newer "one wire" type alt deals.
>Stock repro replacement engine wiring harness with all wires present.
>CURRENT WIRING ON COIL AND STARTER:
-IMI Starter Solenoid has the large post for the large POS battery cable from the battery
-IMI Starter Solenoid has ONE MORE smaller terminal/"post"...it's a slide on male terminal surrounded by a black insulator housing. He has the thicker PURPLE wire that comes from the firewall fuse block running to this male terminal on the starter solenoid.
THAT IS IT as far as wires coming from the battery, coil, wiring harness getting connected to the starter solenoid. Unlike the factory starter solenoid this solenoid only has TWO obvious wire posts (battery cable and purple wire posts). THERE IS another "post" that has a blue rubber cover on it and it has wires running from it down into the starter itself.
You may be wondering about the YELLOW WIRE that is connected, in conjunction with the resistance wire, to the coil + post.
>It's there and attached to the coil + post (it shares a flag/spade terminal with the resistance wire - resistance wire runs to the firewall fuse block).
BUT...down at the starter I noticed a wire dangling down from above with tape wrapped around its end/terminal. Removed the tape and found it to be the YELLOW WIRE with the correct repro/original type circular metal end terminal and the thick type heat shrink over the wire end and the collar on the metal terminal (ie - it's not a terminal end the owner installed....this is the terminal end the repro wiring harness folks installed).
Owner has no instructions for the starter and I can't rely on his "memory" as all he'll say is something like "that's how I was told to hook it up", etc.
IMI's worthless website is such that you can't get to any pages when you click on "Install Sheets"...even after registering on the site. Nothing comes up when you try to click on that option. Great help there!!
Again, cold start is fine but warm/hot...it cranks but doesn't fire. Let it cool down quite a bit and it'll fire.
Stock points ignition.
Thanks for any ideas. Couple of pics below:
Last edited by 70Post; July 8th, 2018 at 10:34 AM.
Also - during our attempted "troubleshooting" process (before I figured out that the "dangling wire" was the yellow wire from the coil + post) we did try swapping coils and a new condensor a but experienced the same warm/hot start problem.
Checked points dwell when running and it was fine.....29 or 30 degrees.
The car is a "mess"....everything you look at and try to fix ends up leading you "further up the chain" where you find even more problems.
For example, rear diff swap morphed into a partial brake system rebuild....cracked front caliper hoses and completely clogged rear rubber brake hose, brake block on frame and steel lines touching headers, one end of the steel line that runs from the block over to the P side caliper hose...there's smooth 90 degree bend in the steel line. WELL, there used to be as this one looked like someone dropped something heavy on it and almost kinked it shut/closed. Gummed up/pitted holdoff valve below master, etc. The guy's been driving with no back brakes, essentially, for A LONG TIME.
That's just a small subchapter of what has been found wrong on the car. I'll stop there.
Last edited by 70Post; July 8th, 2018 at 10:37 AM.
Patton, there is no provision on that starter for the bypass wire to connect to. You either need to do the relay above or buy/fab the Powermaster PN#600R terminal kit (basically a large blocking diode) and follow the directions.
Powermaster instructions, read common question #4: https://static.summitracing.com/glob...s/pwm-9540.pdf
August 14th, 2016, 11:54 AM
