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I suspect most people know that replacement rotors for the 67-70 full size cars with disc brakes are not available new. Thanks to Scott Winn, I've got a set of 1969 Delta disc brakes that are going on my 67. I also managed to stumble onto a set of NOS rotors for the 69-70 cars. Frequent readers likely also know that I've been touting the rotors from a 2003-07 Cadillac CTS as replacements. I finally ordered a set from RockAuto. Except for the bolt pattern and pilot hole diameter (both of which I knew about), they are virtually identical to the NOS rotors. See the photos comparing the two. Note that these rotors go on the backside of the hubs. The only other potential issue is the inside diameter of the backside of the rotor where the heads of the wheel studs might hit the cylindrical surface. The originals are 6.0", the CTS rotors are 5.75". I suspect I will need to grind a small flat on the mushroom head of each stud to clear. By the way, these shiny coated Raybestos rotors cost me all of $27 each from RockAuto. The uncoated ones are $22 each. The NOS ones cost me $300 for the pair. Now off to the machine shop to get the pilot enlarged and stud holes redrilled.
I'll note that these are the rotors for the 69-70 cars with the single piston sliding calipers. The rotors for the 67-68 cars with the four piston fixed calipers are a different P/N, so I don't know how the CTS rotors match up to those, but if anyone has an old one they can spare, I'd appreciate it.
Oh, and the final photos are a teaser of the Wilwood D52 calipers that I got for this installation. Aluminum castings and twin pistons with about 12% more area. They bolt to the factory 69-77 caliper brackets.
Thank you for all the time you've spent on this project, and for sharing the results with the rest of us! I have some 1967 rotors but they're in good shape. I could provide photos and measurements between the 1967 and 1969-70 rotors if that would help? John
Joe P. ---- Craig here ----- 516 - 485 - 1935..... Call Me....
I have 3 people on a waiting list for these Rotors , myN.O.S. are gone....
If you can "make them", perhaps we can sell 3 pairs, immediately.
Thanxxxx, Craig
I suspect most people know that replacement rotors for the 67-70 full size cars with disc brakes are not available new. Thanks to Scott Winn, I've got a set of 1969 Delta disc brakes that are going on my 67. I also managed to stumble onto a set of NOS rotors for the 69-70 cars. Frequent readers likely also know that I've been touting the rotors from a 2003-07 Cadillac CTS as replacements. I finally ordered a set from RockAuto. Except for the bolt pattern and pilot hole diameter (both of which I knew about), they are virtually identical to the NOS rotors. See the photos comparing the two. Note that these rotors go on the backside of the hubs. The only other potential issue is the inside diameter of the backside of the rotor where the heads of the wheel studs might hit the cylindrical surface. The originals are 6.0", the CTS rotors are 5.75". I suspect I will need to grind a small flat on the mushroom head of each stud to clear. By the way, these shiny coated Raybestos rotors cost me all of $27 each from RockAuto. The uncoated ones are $22 each. The NOS ones cost me $300 for the pair. Now off to the machine shop to get the pilot enlarged and stud holes redrilled.
I'll note that these are the rotors for the 69-70 cars with the single piston sliding calipers. The rotors for the 67-68 cars with the four piston fixed calipers are a different P/N, so I don't know how the CTS rotors match up to those, but if anyone has an old one they can spare, I'd appreciate it.
Oh, and the final photos are a teaser of the Wilwood D52 calipers that I got for this installation. Aluminum castings and twin pistons with about 12% more area. They bolt to the factory 69-77 caliper brackets.
Was
I haven't had time to take my rotors to the machine shop.Thanks for the updates.I hope it works out, I might be buying a set from you
Last edited by eric66; February 9th, 2019 at 07:45 AM.
I'm anxiously awaiting your machine shop's verdict / success capability...
Don't want to call any of the three of them until! then...
Thanxxxx, Joe P. , Craig 516 - 485 - 1935...
JOE P. -- You are not going to believe this!!!! I just got a call seconds ago from a gentleman in
michigan who needs a pair for a 1970... So, now, I 've got 4 guys anxious, and we have the
gentleman who added his need on this thread....
Let me know....thanxxxx, Craig 516 - 485 - 1935...
JOE P. -- You are not going to believe this!!!! I just got a call seconds ago from a gentleman in
michigan who needs a pair for a 1970... So, now, I 've got 4 guys anxious, and we have the
gentleman who added his need on this thread....
Let me know....thanxxxx, Craig 516 - 485 - 1935...
I'm in L.A. for work right now. Flying back tonight and the rotors are supposed to be ready at the machine shop tomorrow.
First, the Scarebird conversion uses rotors that are only 11" diameter by 1" thick. The OEM rotors are 12" diameter and 1.25" thick.
Second, as an engineer, the flat plate aftermarket caliper brackets are not the right design. There's a reason why every auto manufacturer in the world who uses sliding calipers mounts them in caliper brackets that extend along the sides of the caliper to react the braking loads. The Scarebird brackets (and pretty much every other aftermarket conversion bracket) doesn't do this. The result is that the caliper pins are forced to react 100% of the braking load, which is not what they are designed for. Yeah, that might be fine for a weekend car that only drives to and from cruise night, but I want a three season daily driver that needs to be able to handle emergency braking while fully loaded. I'll take the factory engineers' design over the garage shop design any day.
Finally, I already have a factory disc brake setup thanks to Scott Winn.
If the Olds rotors are same 69-70 Impala rotors, then those sold as 4-piston rotors for Impalas will work. Usually, B-bodies share common chassis components just like A-bodies. I happen to be the guy that figured out that single piston b-body rotors are same as 4-piston rotors. You can check it out in more detail with pics and part number at the chevytalk 68-70 forum.
Edit: If I remember correctly, these rotors mount behind the hub. Cost about $55 each at Rock Auto. Sure beats paying $300 for NOS.
Last edited by bry593; February 28th, 2019 at 07:17 PM.
You used the biggest two - letter word in the English language.... "IF"....
Unfortunately, they ARE NOT.
Buick, Chevy, Olds, and Pontiac are all different in the up to '70 Disc Brake World.
They all unified in 1971 - 1976 --- and that Hub & Rotor (though Chinese made only)
Is as routine as coffee in a diner....
The 1970 & earlier Rotors -- all of them -- have been very rare to find -- for certainly the
Last 35 years.....
If the Olds rotors are same 69-70 Impala rotors, then those sold as 4-piston rotors for Impalas will work. Usually, B-bodies share common chassis components just like A-bodies.
If Delta rotors were the same as Impala, we wouldn't be having this conversation. NOTHING in the brakes or suspension is he same for 65-70.
I just touched down after a completely packed five hour flight stuffed in a middle seat, and one of the first emails I read is "hey, why'd you waste $300 when you could have gotten $30 Impala rotors". The word "idiot" was implied if not written. What would YOUR first reaction be?
Joe,
Can you help me understand how the hub and rotor mate together after re-drilling the 5x5" pattern into the CTS rotor?
My 1970 rotors and hubs are one piece so I'm not clear on how you'd get a hub with the right bearing clearances for my 70 spindles in a hub.
Is it possible to machine the rotor portion off the hub and make a hub from an under-spec '70 rotor? Or are you perhaps using hubs from the 68-69 system that I know nothing about?
Very interested in this thread. I've got 66 rear drums and 1970 rotors on mine, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled for better braking and eventually they'll need replacement from use.
Many cars on the road can stop faster than we can these days especially with lighter vehicles, 4 wheel disks, and anti-lock brakes. It's not quite a competition, but I'd like to be able to know what the alternatives are.
Thanks in advance for any update or guidance you can provide. I really appreciate the engineer's approach you take.
The factory 69-70 rotors and hubs are not one piece. Press out the wheel studs, The rotor separates from the backside of the hub. The photos in that link I posted show an N.O.S. 69-70 rotor, which does not have the hub.
Obviously I don’t know this system as well as I thought I did.
Very helpful
Cfair, just to be sure. The two piece rotors used in 1970 look like the attached photos. Is this what yours look like? I don't have a press, but I used a brass hammer to knock the studs out and the hub & rotor came apart. John
Just disassembled my ‘70 hub and rotor assembly. Came apart nicely with just a bit of sledge persuasion. I protected the studs with a sacrificial lugnut.
I’ll get going on 2003-07 Cadillac CTS rotors next week. I’m looking for the fronts right?
Wondering if they could be fit to the rears too for 4 wheel disc brakes?
My thanks to Joe P and the team for a lead on replacing these rare parts.
Wondering if they could be fit to the rears too for 4 wheel disc brakes?
Unfortunately, there is not enough offset in the rotors to use them on the back. On the front, these rotors go on the backside of the hub. On back, they need to go on the outboard side of the axle flange. This puts the friction surface (and thus the caliper) too close to the backside of the wheel. In addition, the ID of the backside of the hat part of the rotor is too small to fit over the axle flange.
Joe,
Thanks for your usual deep knowledge of what works. It would have been great to have consistent rotors front to rear (less custom...), but that's the way it goes.
Have you fitted your '67 with rear discs? Or another 65-70 big car? I'm debating the value, complexity and benefit.
My thinking would be to start with Cadillac parts or maybe Chevy truck parts with the 5X5 circle, but within that range of parts, do you have suggestions or confirmation as to what would work on the 65-70 9.3 Type O rear ends? I have the impression that those rotors would best be sized at around a 12" diameter to actually improve over the factory drums. Is that correct?
Also, I'm noting your preference for the dual piston Wilwood calipers, are you happy with them vs. factory single pots, now that they've presumably been on your big car a while?
Stop'n'go traffic here in SF keeps getting worse & worse. Anytime I leave reasonable margin between my Olds and the car ahead of me, someone almost always cuts in. A professional driver I know said that Uber/Lyft have injected ~30K additional cars per day into SF and the Bay Area, on top of what was thin capacity before they arrived in force. Trying to stay with the times while enjoying the Old big cars as often as possible.
Joe,
Thanks for your usual deep knowledge of what works. It would have been great to have consistent rotors front to rear (less custom...), but that's the way it goes.
Have you fitted your '67 with rear discs? Or another 65-70 big car? I'm debating the value, complexity and benefit.
My thinking would be to start with Cadillac parts or maybe Chevy truck parts with the 5X5 circle, but within that range of parts, do you have suggestions or confirmation as to what would work on the 65-70 9.3 Type O rear ends? I have the impression that those rotors would best be sized at around a 12" diameter to actually improve over the factory drums. Is that correct?
Also, I'm noting your preference for the dual piston Wilwood calipers, are you happy with them vs. factory single pots, now that they've presumably been on your big car a while?
Stop'n'go traffic here in SF keeps getting worse & worse. Anytime I leave reasonable margin between my Olds and the car ahead of me, someone almost always cuts in. A professional driver I know said that Uber/Lyft have injected ~30K additional cars per day into SF and the Bay Area, on top of what was thin capacity before they arrived in force. Trying to stay with the times while enjoying the Old big cars as often as possible.
cheers
Chris
I have not gone with rear discs. The 11" drums are fine for me, but I sympathize with your issue about traffic. It's no better here in Northern VA, that's for sure. I like the Wilwood calipers because they are an easy 10% increase in piston area and braking force with no other changes to the system. I was actually considering Wilwood hats and rotors to go over the wheel mounting flanges, but I have not gotten that far.
Joe,
I was just looking over Rock Auto and there are quite a number of listings for Cadillac 03-07 rotors, could you post a part number for the rotors you like best? I'd like to be sure and begin with the closest parts.
My 98 is just now getting an NOS set of rotors, but the Starfire will need rotors at some point too.
Then my only problem is rear drums & shoes. Am I right in thinking the 98's has 2.5 inch wide drums where the 88/Starfire had 2" wide?
Joe,
I was just looking over Rock Auto and there are quite a number of listings for Cadillac 03-07 rotors, could you post a part number for the rotors you like best? I'd like to be sure and begin with the closest parts.
My 98 is just now getting an NOS set of rotors, but the Starfire will need rotors at some point too.
Then my only problem is rear drums & shoes. Am I right in thinking the 98's has 2.5 inch wide drums where the 88/Starfire had 2" wide?
Thanks
Chris
Chris,
I used the Raybestos 580120FZN rotors, but any rotors for the FE1 suspension will be the same. I see the price at RockAuto has gone up a buck since I bought mine.
You are correct about the drums. 11 x 2 on the B-body cars, and correct drums are hard to come by. Kanter sells drums for newer GMs that have been machined to fit the 65-70 cars. You can do the same thing yourself. The drums from a 1980-90 Custom Cruiser wagon will fit but rub slightly on the backing plate. A skim cut of 1/4" or less on the lip of the drum where it rubs fixes the problem. These are not optically correct (the originals are the "bell" style) but they will function correctly.
Joe,
I took a few minutes to mock up a 5X5" pattern on the recently-received Raybestos Cadillar CTS rotor. I put the '70 Olds rotor on top and tried to find the best spots for the 5X5 Olds bolt pattern to. The crude sharpie not-very-round holes are an approximation of the 5X5 pattern. Obviously this will need to far more carefully measured & machined.
Do you think there's enough metal to be strong enough to brake the car safely after redrilling the 5X5 pattern on the rotor? I'm nervous that the holes are too close together. Or am I missing something?
Long run I'm aiming at "better off", not a quick fix. If I read your posts right, your engineering sensibilities will be very helpful here. I take family & friends in these cars all the time, so safety first.
The centering here is not perfect, but check out the location of the 5X5" holes on the rotor: Is there enough metal between the new 5x5" pattern and the original metric holes to be safe?
Joe,
I took a few minutes to mock up a 5X5" pattern on the recently-received Raybestos Cadillar CTS rotor. I put the '70 Olds rotor on top and tried to find the best spots for the 5X5 Olds bolt pattern to. The crude sharpie not-very-round holes are an approximation of the 5X5 pattern. Obviously this will need to far more carefully measured & machined.
Do you think there's enough metal to be strong enough to brake the car safely after redrilling the 5X5 pattern on the rotor? I'm nervous that the holes are too close together. Or am I missing something?
Long run I'm aiming at "better off", not a quick fix. If I read your posts right, your engineering sensibilities will be very helpful here. I take family & friends in these cars all the time, so safety first.
The centering here is not perfect, but check out the location of the 5X5" holes on the rotor: Is there enough metal between the new 5x5" pattern and the original metric holes to be safe?
What do you think?
Looking forward to your thoughts.
Chris
Yeah, that's how mine look. You can actually clock the new holes slightly towards the beveled edges of the small retainer screw holes, since the actual hole is much smaller than the bevels.
Hi, I came across this post while doing search for 70 Impala rotors.
Based on what I'm reading here, they are difficult to find however since this post, Centric has a rotor that originally was described for a 4 piston caliper but works with single piston as well. Part #120.62066.
Now about the proper wheel studs...In another forum, someone suggested that Dorman 610-111 and Raybestos 5003B studs are the ones but they have been discontinued.
Based on the info I have the specs for the studs are 7/16"-20, 1 3/4 long, with a .465" knurl.
Not sure if anyone has come across the issue of finding wheel studs that work with Olds hubs/rotors and if they would be the same for the 70 Impala?
Last edited by MyndJestyr; July 29th, 2020 at 09:31 AM.
Not sure if anyone has come across the issue of finding wheel studs that work with Olds hubs/rotors and if they would be the same for the 70 Impala?
NOTHING about an Olds full size chassis, suspension, or brakes is the same as an Impala for the 1965-70 model years. The Imp used the A-body 5 x 4.75" wheel bolt pattern and smaller brakes. The Olds used the 5 x 5" wheel bolt pattern and larger brakes. The Olds wheel studs are 1/2", not 7/16". The Olds rear suspension is a triangulated four link - Chevy used a three link with Panhard rod. The front suspension and control arms are completely different. The steering linkage is completely different. Nothing interchanges.
Thanks for confirming Joe!
Between Olds and Impala hard to find brake parts, someone could make a lot of money reproducing these as the demand appears to be there for sure!
Plz help. Can’t find rotors/hubs for my 70’ olds 98
[QUOTE=joe_padavano;1153277]I suspect most people know that replacement rotors for the 67-70 full size cars with disc brakes are not available new. Thanks to Scott Winn, I've got a set of 1969 Delta disc brakes that are going on my 67. I also managed to stumble onto a set of NOS rotors for the 69-70 cars. Frequent readers likely also know that I've been touting the rotors from a 2003-07 Cadillac CTS as replacements. I finally ordered a set from RockAuto. Except for the bolt pattern and pilot hole diameter (both of which I knew about), they are virtually identical to the NOS rotors. See the photos comparing the two. Note that these rotors go on the backside of the hubs. The only other potential issue is the inside diameter of the backside of the rotor where the heads of the wheel studs might hit the cylindrical surface. The originals are 6.0", the CTS rotors are 5.75". I suspect I will need to grind a small flat on the mushroom head of each stud to clear. By the way, these shiny coated Raybestos rotors cost me all of $27 each from RockAuto. The uncoated ones are $22 each. The NOS ones cost me $300 for the pair. Now off to the machine shop to get the pilot enlarged and stud holes redrilled.
I'll note that these are the rotors for the 69-70 cars with the single piston sliding calipers. The rotors for the 67-68 cars with the four piston fixed calipers are a different P/N, so I don't know how the CTS rotors match up to those, but if anyone has an old one they can spare, I'd appreciate it.
Oh, and the final photos are a teaser of the Wilwood D52 calipers that I got for this installation. Aluminum castings and twin pistons with about 12% more area. They bolt to the factory 69-77 caliper brackets.
[/QUOTE
Is machining the 03-07 CTS rotors my only option? My 1970 Oldsmobile 98 has been in the shop for 6 months stuck without rotors and hubs. Both rotors are shot and one hub is cracked! So I only have one usuable hub. The shop that has my vehicle is desperate. We emailed scarebird and been having a very slow response from them. Is there any other possible options for my vehicle? Please someone help!
Is machining the 03-07 CTS rotors my only option? My 1970 Oldsmobile 98 has been in the shop for 6 months stuck without rotors and hubs. Both rotors are shot and one hub is cracked! So I only have one usuable hub. The shop that has my vehicle is desperate. We emailed scarebird and been having a very slow response from them. Is there any other possible options for my vehicle? Please someone help!
We've been trying to help you...
You have several options:
1) Find a set of NOS or usable OEM rotors. Good luck with that.
2) Machine the CTS or Camaro rotors to fit.
3) Convert your car to drum brakes (I wouldn't recommend this)
4) Convert to Scarebird, which first requires you to swap to drum brake spindles, then change to their selected rotors that are smaller than original, and their selected calipers, which are also different from original
5) Spend big bucks and put together a custom brake system using Wilwood racing components.
Personally, machining the $24 CTS rotors sounds like the cheapest, quickest way to restore your braking capability. You've been provided part numbers. What other "help" do you want?
If you are expecting someone else to magically propose some readily available replacement option from a different vehicle, that isn't going to happen. Those of us who own these cars have been dealing with this problem for years. The list above are the available options. Pick one.
I appreciated all your help joe, this was posted the same day as my other post that you created it’s own thread for, just prior to communicating with you. So again, thank you for the quick response and all your help it really gave me a great way to solving the issue I am having. And thanks for the additional options you mentioned in your response today! Sorry if it came off as if I was asking again.
In case it helps, you might check Turners Auto Salvage in Fresno for some of the hub & rotor parts.
They’ll probably have a good hub, but there’s a 90% probability that any rotors you get from them are under safety thickness spec. If you buy boneyard parts, my recommendation would be to get everything between the ball joints. You might need spares and the disc vs. drum spindles are slightly different.
You might get lucky, but don’t bank on it. Which takes you back to the CTS rotors or custom stuff. When I run out of factory rotors, I’m heading for the CTS rotors.
For now, I’m o.k., but I have faith that they’ll work with the machining discussed above.
While you have the front end apart, I suggest you get everything that moves magnaflux checked under UV light to confirm there are no cracks: lower A-arms especially, spindles and upper A-arms too. Then you know you have something you can ride on with confidence.
Discs are the right move for 2020. You’ll enjoy the car a lot more and drive it with the confidence that it will stop a lot better. Like most every modern car you’re on the freeway with.
I suspect most people know that replacement rotors for the 67-70 full size cars with disc brakes are not available new. Thanks to Scott Winn, I've got a set of 1969 Delta disc brakes that are going on my 67. I also managed to stumble onto a set of NOS rotors for the 69-70 cars. Frequent readers likely also know that I've been touting the rotors from a 2003-07 Cadillac CTS as replacements. I finally ordered a set from RockAuto. Except for the bolt pattern and pilot hole diameter (both of which I knew about), they are virtually identical to the NOS rotors. See the photos comparing the two. Note that these rotors go on the backside of the hubs. The only other potential issue is the inside diameter of the backside of the rotor where the heads of the wheel studs might hit the cylindrical surface. The originals are 6.0", the CTS rotors are 5.75". I suspect I will need to grind a small flat on the mushroom head of each stud to clear. By the way, these shiny coated Raybestos rotors cost me all of $27 each from RockAuto. The uncoated ones are $22 each. The NOS ones cost me $300 for the pair. Now off to the machine shop to get the pilot enlarged and stud holes redrilled.
I'll note that these are the rotors for the 69-70 cars with the single piston sliding calipers. The rotors for the 67-68 cars with the four piston fixed calipers are a different P/N, so I don't know how the CTS rotors match up to those, but if anyone has an old one they can spare, I'd appreciate it.
Oh, and the final photos are a teaser of the Wilwood D52 calipers that I got for this installation. Aluminum castings and twin pistons with about 12% more area. They bolt to the factory 69-77 caliper brackets.
[/QUOTE
Is machining the 03-07 CTS rotors my only option? My 1970 Oldsmobile 98 has been in the shop for 6 months stuck without rotors and hubs. Both rotors are shot and one hub is cracked! So I only have one usuable hub. The shop that has my vehicle is desperate. We emailed scarebird and been having a very slow response from them. Is there any other possible options for my vehicle? Please someone help!
I have an extra hub if you still need. I happen to have an extra set of hubs with rotors
Question for Joe. The use of the 1980 through 1990 Custom Cruiser rear drums, is that only good on the B body 88 or are they wide enough to use on a 1970 Olds 98 LS hardtop too? Have been gathering parts for a over a year now and hope to actually start working on her this spring. For the 1970 98, do you prefer the CAMARO front rotor or the CTS. Many thanks! This site is a wealth of knowledge, facts and opinions!
Question for Joe. The use of the 1980 through 1990 Custom Cruiser rear drums, is that only good on the B body 88 or are they wide enough to use on a 1970 Olds 98 LS hardtop too? Have been gathering parts for a over a year now and hope to actually start working on her this spring. For the 1970 98, do you prefer the CAMARO front rotor or the CTS. Many thanks! This site is a wealth of knowledge, facts and opinions!
I've found that the Camaro rotors are closer to the 67-68 full size rotors with the fixed calipers and the CTS rotors are closer to the 69-70 full size rotors with the sliding calipers, though the reality is that the sliders are much less sensitive to the offset of the friction surface relative to the hub. Those wagon rear drums are only 11x2. The C-body drums are 2.5" wide.
Thank you . Any option for a comparable rear drum for the 98 that you know of? Got a feeling, if there was, you would have offered it up in your previous reply.
February 7th, 2019, 02:41 PM
