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During the Restoration on my Rallye 350, One of my projects will be to inspect the Rear End. It is stamped SF. Which I believe is Anti-Spin 3.23 Gear. It is not leaking and the axle bearings do not seem to have any play, but I am thinking about pulling the axles so I can clean and paint everything. With that said, Before I open the Cover I want to ensure I have what I need on-hand.
Here is my list, looking for advice and recommendations before I make a mistake:
Axle Bearing and Retainer: This is the part that is very confusing for me. I have read several posts, but I am just not understanding what I need as far as the correct bearing, Seal and Retainer. I am assuming that if I pull the axles the bearings will not longer be useable, is that correct?
Lastly, Is the Differential Oil and Additive, I would assume I could get this at a local Auto Parts store, but really have no idea. Is there a specific brand or type I need to find?
I would have it all rebuilt whole you are in there. Get new clutches and She spring for the posi too. Brian Trick/Monzaz/BPonti can get them for you and a complete parts kit. You are correct in SF as 3.23 posi axle code. Use only the GM or Ford posi additive it's the best on the market along with good dino gear oil not synthetic.
Check the torque on the diff with a breaker bar across two wheel studs with driveshaft in neutral or off and one wheel on the ground. if it has no sign of a pinion leak or axle leak just pull cover to check for rust damage and just clean outside and do new fluids only. IMO Do pull the axles and check axle bearings though. Original bearings are fine as long as it didn't run low on oil or contaminated
Check the torque on the diff with a breaker bar across two wheel studs with driveshaft in neutral or off and one wheel on the ground. if it has no sign of a pinion leak or axle leak just pull cover to check for rust damage and just clean outside and do new fluids only. IMO Do pull the axles and check axle bearings though. Original bearings are fine as long as it didn't run low on oil or contaminated
Please correct me if I am wrong, because I only know what I have read on other post. My understanding is because the bearing is pressed onto the axle they normally get damaged when removing the axle. IE come apart.
During the Restoration on my Rallye 350, One of my projects will be to inspect the Rear End. It is stamped SF. Which I believe is Anti-Spin 3.23 Gear. It is not leaking and the axle bearings do not seem to have any play, but I am thinking about pulling the axles so I can clean and paint everything. With that said, Before I open the Cover I want to ensure I have what I need on-hand.
Here is my list, looking for advice and recommendations before I make a mistake:
Axle Bearing and Retainer: This is the part that is very confusing for me. I have read several posts, but I am just not understanding what I need as far as the correct bearing, Seal and Retainer. I am assuming that if I pull the axles the bearings will not longer be useable, is that correct?
Lastly, Is the Differential Oil and Additive, I would assume I could get this at a local Auto Parts store, but really have no idea. Is there a specific brand or type I need to find?
Thanks for any help, what am I missing?
WOW, i NEED TO JACK UP MY PRICES...LOL.
I try to give the car forums deals on these parts and answer all the questions had on the sites...If not known I will try my darn-est to find the answers.
The question here is - are you keeping the car ? Liek a LONG time? over 5-10 years...If so spend the money you will not be sorry.
Axle bearings and seals will depend on the actual year of your differential
1967 68 69 take the seals bearing system and the 1970 takes the oiled bearing system.
Clutches master rebuild kit axle bearings and seals ...we have it all even NEW posi units and 3.42 3.90 gear sets and axle shafts if you need.... ALL better priced than the internet Big guy companies inflating the prices.
PLUS you get all the help you can handle with tech... LOL
Jim
J D
Last edited by monzaz; February 16th, 2018 at 03:15 PM.
The bearing is fine it stays on axle and axle pops out and goes back in fine done it many times.
^^^This. You need a slide hammer to pull the axle shaft out once the four retainer bolts are out, but this in no way damages the bearing.
OK, truth be told, I've never used a slide hammer. I just flip the brake drum around, thread three lug nuts back on loosely (flat side in) and use the drum as the slide hammer.
WOW, i NEED TO JACK UP MY PRICES...LOL.
I try to give the car forums deals on these parts and answer all the questions had on the sites...If not known I will try my darn-est to find the answers.
The question here is - are you keeping the car ? Liek a LONG time? over 5-10 years...If so spend the money you will not be sorry.
Axle bearings and seals will depend on the actual year of your differential
1967 68 69 take the seals bearing system and the 1970 takes the oiled bearing system.
Clutches master rebuild kit axle bearings and seals ...we have it all even NEW posi units and 3.42 3.90 gear sets and axle shafts if you need.... ALL better priced than the internet Big guy companies inflating the prices.
PLUS you get all the help you can handle with tech... LOL
Jim
J D
Jim, Please don't jack up your prices.
Yes, I do plan to keep the car. I guess that since I said it was for my Rallye 350 that it would be understood it is a 1970. Also, I gathered from some of your post that you rebuilt Rear ends but had no idea that you also sold parts. This weekend I plan to do some work on the frame but want to start the rear end soon after. I will definitely keep you in mind.
Thanks,
By the way, the factory gasket (P/N 402783) looks like this.
Joe, that looks like the same one as the first link I posted. Why the difference in that one and the second link I posted? What does that area with the hook shape do?
Did your differential make noise, leak, chatter? These are the questions you need to answer before you embark on this journey. First, the current replacement axle bearings are wrong. Next, the clutches sold are made different from the originals. I have no experience with the new repros. If you feel that your posi unit is "loose", then, you can shim your current clutch pack. Even if you put a new clutch pack, you still will need to shim it. I hope this helps
Joe, that looks like the same one as the first link I posted. Why the difference in that one and the second link I posted? What does that area with the hook shape do?
I wish I knew...
402783 is listed for 69-70 Type O only. The 66-68 Type O uses P/N 393207, which I believe is the one Supercars sells. Both fit and seal the same on all A-body Type O axles.
Jim,
Did your differential make noise, leak, chatter? These are the questions you need to answer before you embark on this journey. First, the current replacement axle bearings are wrong. Next, the clutches sold are made different from the originals. I have no experience with the new repros. If you feel that your posi unit is "loose", then, you can shim your current clutch pack. Even if you put a new clutch pack, you still will need to shim it. I hope this helps
Joe, Actually, no leaks, noise or chatter. I think I am just going to go ahead and take the cover off and see what's there. I at least need to change to oil. I was mainly concerned about pulling the axles to help in cleaning and painting. I really don't want to change anything unless a should.
How about the Differential Oil and Additive?; is there anything special about it? Can it be bought at any Auto parts store??
Jim, Please don't jack up your prices.
Yes, I do plan to keep the car. I guess that since I said it was for my Rallye 350 that it would be understood it is a 1970. Also, I gathered from some of your post that you rebuilt Rear ends but had no idea that you also sold parts. This weekend I plan to do some work on the frame but want to start the rear end soon after. I will definitely keep you in mind.
Thanks,
Yep, BUT just because you have a 1970 rallye does not mean you have a 1970 rear under the car... I say this so much I am really surprised that there is not a POST IT on the drivetrain / differential beginning...
It does not matter if your car came from the factory original...IT MAY still not have a rear under it that it might have supposedly come with. Especially in 1970 year as there was a strike in GM.
Then there are factors like warranty repair, the dealer ship may have not installed a correct replacement rear.
Then the age factor if your not the original owner, again failure and replacement might have been an issue or restoration ....
All these factors will determine if the car is still original. The higher the optional HP the less likely the original parts are still with the car. These cars were not bought to make money but to hammer down on the street and track IF it was a special optional model.
If your car has an original 1970 rear it should have the OILED bearing system on the axles...meaning the axle seal is also on the axle shaft outboard the bearing and inboard the retaining plate.
Monzaz, has an excellent point on whether your differential may be original to your car. But that can be determined easily without taking the rear apart. On the center section of the rear there is a casting number and a Julian date. If interested you can gather that info, and post it if you are interested. Furthermore, on the left side next to the cover, there should also be an assemble date code with a letter and number. Hope this helps.
Monzaz, has an excellent point on whether your differential may be original to your car. But that can be determined easily without taking the rear apart. On the center section of the rear there is a casting number and a Julian date. If interested you can gather that info, and post it if you are interested. Furthermore, on the left side next to the cover, there should also be an assemble date code with a letter and number. Hope this helps.
what about the inside...That is the most important part...No matter what is stamped, casting date, etc. STILL will never know what exactly is in the rear (condition and part options) with out actually opening the rear up.
You own a collector car...Your going to have to get dirty sooner or later.
what about the inside...That is the most important part...No matter what is stamped, casting date, etc. STILL will never know what exactly is in the rear (condition and part options) with out actually opening the rear up.
You own a collector car...Your going to have to get dirty sooner or later.
jIM
Jim,
This is true, he could gather the posi casting number, casting date, and the casting numbers and dates from the ring and pinion. Furthermore, could pull the posi clutches out and inspect them, and re-shim the posi. Inspect the ring and pinion. Lastly, we would have the snow ball effect. BUT, I was providing information for identification purposes. Assisting on whether he has a 1970 rear. I wish him the best of luck.
Last edited by joesw31; February 18th, 2018 at 03:26 AM.
This is true, he could gather the posi casting number, casting date, and the casting numbers and dates from the ring and pinion. Furthermore, could pull the posi clutches out and inspect them, and re-shim the posi. Inspect the ring and pinion. Lastly, we would have the snow ball effect. BUT, I was providing information for identification purposes. Assisting on whether he has a 1970 rear. I wish him the best of luck.
If you have a 1970 rear it will have oiled axle bearings ...12 bolt cover 10 bolt guts AKA 12 bolt Olds 8.5 rear) this was the only year they had oiled bearings for this rear. 67 68 69 were sealed bearing with oil seal in the housing tube end like a dough nut.
From his first thread.... it only sounded like to me from the words is that he wants to refurbish what he has clean it gear maybe bearings and gaskets seals etc that he MAY need to restore this rear to good working condition. NOW what I am trying to get through is NUMBERS are only so good for buying parts for any mechanical item. Different parts can still be in the housing like axle bearings and seals even though the housing is stamped 70 it could be early or late housing which means it could have sealed bearings if it is a early 70 and ot oiled bearing if it is a late 70... ALL depends on the plant. WE run into this ALL the time in rebuilding diffs engines transmissions body panel Everything... lol. Plants will keep the cars rolling because it is money when the line stops... Taht is why I am so on the physical inspection on this thread. ...from his first post. I think we covered it pretty darn good for him ...were good. Jim
Last edited by monzaz; February 18th, 2018 at 12:20 PM.
I know it has been a while since I started this post, but got wrapped up in doing other areas of the car. This week I decided to start on the rear end. Started Media Blasting but then decided to Removed the cover to verify the numbers.
It does appear to be a 3.23. Does have a 12 Bolt Cover and 10 Bolt Guts.
Also, pulled both axles. I am going to assume it has been apart before as the left and right axle bearing retainers are different styles. Also, if you look close at the right axle between the seal and axle retaining plate, it appears to have gotten very hot as some point. I would think that is not a good. See below pictures.
I am thinking I may as well continue with the disassembly. It will certainly make it easier to media blast the case. So, I guess I am back to my original post. I am looking for any advice and recommendations on needed parts for refurbishment. The Axle seals were not leaking when I pulled them out. I am not sure if that axle is any good.
I am hoping Jim (Monzaz) will pipe in as I would like to get his advice and buy any needed parts from him.
Looks like a nice clean 3.23 rear
It is a 1970 rear as the axle bearings are oiled type.
The right axle is STOCK from the factory crimped retainer and the other left was probably change way back in the late 70 -early 80 as it still has the Bower straight roller bearings which I BELIEVE to be superior to the newer tapered bearing in the trouble free area. The straight roller bearings have not been available for 20 years. ...UNLESS some one found one on ebay but the looks of the seal it has been on there for a while.
You can take the axles to a machine shp and chuck them up in the lathe to determine straightness.
check the splines for roll or twist.
looks like some studs were replaced on the LEFT axle as the one stud is not seated all the way.
This weekend I was able to get the Rear Differential back together and installed in the car. I will post some pictures tonight, not able to from work.
My next project was to install the Timken Set 9 Axle bearings and retainers. The Bearings went onto the axles fairly easily. When I was installing the Bearing retainer the Outer Race on the Set 9 bearing popped off. My understanding is that this is not a issue. My question is: Since they are already off, is it best/easier to install the Race into the Rear Axle Housing first, and then install the Axle and bearing or install it all at the same time? Or, does it matter.
Pictures of this weekends progress.
Differential is installed, ready for some shocks and Axles. As my previous post stated, the Outer Race popped off when I was pressing the Retainer on. I am wondering if it is best to install the Outer Race into the axle tube (since it is already off) and then install the axle and bearing or install it all together? Or does it really matter?
Regarding the bearing race(s). It is better to mount the race in the axle tube separately from the axle and mounted bearing. You don't want to put too much pressure on the individual bearings by using them to press the race. If you don't have a bearing race installer, you can probably borrow a kit with various sized adapters at your local auto parts store. My local O'Reilly's has them. To borrow the kit, they will want a hold charge placed on your credit card. When you return the tool within 24 hours, they cancel the charge. Otherwise, you own the tool
Last edited by BackInTheGame; August 20th, 2018 at 07:55 PM.
Reason: misunderstood the timeline - doh!
The Tapered bearing setup the A-body cars use is a slip fit,not press fit into the tube it is a press onto the axle shaft.... so it does not matter if you put the race on the axle or in the tube. Just be sure the tube end is clean from debris.
light oil will be your best friend installing the axle no matter which way you decide. Normally the bearing race is all together in the package when purchased New...After the car is run and the axle is removed, it separates.... so sooner or later it will break away from the bearing.
I just wish we had the older non tapered bearing it was much less sensitive to axle end play.
February 16th, 2018, 10:38 AM
LOL 
