brown7373

My 72 has a 3 row radiator in it now, but I also have a brand new 4 row original type I want to install. I know I would need a top plate for a 4 row, but what about the bottom metal mounts? do any of the companies sell them, and do they bolt on or were they welded? Will I need anything else? Hoses the same or different?

I live in south Florida, and sometimes when I run the A/C on hot days, it gets warmer than I like. Since I already have the bigger radiator, I thought I'd change it.

oldcutlass

If your running a stock top plate then the only thing you may have to change are the rubber upper and lower cushions.

Allan R

Repops for 4 core rad top plate, mounts and rubber inserts available from Fusicks, PartsPlace, In Line Tube...From what I can see the rad supports are tack welded in place. Probably could rivet them.

oldcutlass: Why would GM have made a different top plate for the 4 core if the 3 core would do with just changing the rubber insert?

oldcutlass

I'm not familiar with a different top plate, I am familiar with the difference between the old style down draft vs xflow radiators. I would assume all you need to do is change the cushions.

Let the other guys with your body style chime in on the difference if there is one.

Allan R

Actually there is a different top plate. The tabs that hold the rad are located in different spots to accomodate the difference in tank design for a 4 core.

oldcutlass

So is the plate different or the plates the same with a different location of the cushions.

Allan R

I'm going by what GM put in writing on this.
According to the GM Parts Manual, the rad top plate is the same for 71/72 Cutlass models. ref: Group 1.270 part 407116 all cars EXCEPT Y72 - Heavy Duty cooling.

I know the 3 core is one solid stamping because I just went to my car and looked at it. You may be right it's the same top plate just modified with different mounting for the insulators. I think it's a different stamping though because of the cutback area where the rad cushion mounts are.

But, tell you what. Have a look at the pics and form your own conclusion. IMO these are 2 different top plates for 2 different rads.

First pic - 4 core from Thornton. Second pic - my 3 core. Third pic - my 3 core insulator close up

2blu442

There are different top plates and bottom saddles for the 3 and 4 row radiators in 1968-72 Cutlass/442. Some of the full sized cars of the 1968-73ish vintage had a three row radiator with one three row tank and one 4 row tank. Those have the wider saddles with one 4 row rubber insert and one that's moulded to fit the smaller 3 row tank. I've got some pictures of each installed in a car, if I can find them I'll post them. John

2blu442

OK, here's a 4 row radiator top plate
P1010087.jpg

P1010091.jpg

P1010363-1.jpg

P1010364.jpg

brown7373

I know you can't install the 4 row radiator with the 3 row mounts on the bottom and the 3 row top plate, because I tried. the bottom mount is curved and is too narrow (front to back), so the radiator sits on top instead if in the mount. Same for the top plate. It is also too narrow front to back so the plate won't sit down enough to bolt it up. It does seem like they should have made all 4 row plates and mounts, and then just used different size rubber cushions to fit correctly, rather that tooling up separate parts.

I don't think the radiator is wider, is it?

70Post

Funny you mention that because the first picture posted by 2Blu442 above is just that.....a 4 row top plate with a special rubber isolator made for a 3 row tank.

On to your dilemma:

Top plate - options...

1) You can take your existing 3 row top plate and grab the ends of the the 3 row formed metal saddles and sort of pull them outwards a bit to allow clearance for the top of 4 row radiator tank. Definitely the cheapo/crude, home-brew method. This was/is pretty common on these cars and was done alot before 4 row top plates became a bit more plentiful. The saddles won't have a real tight "grip" on the tops of the tanks but as I said, it's been done a lot in the past.

2)Get a repro 4 core top plate

3)Get an original 4 core top plate


Bottom of radiator/radiator support options....

1)Same as #1 above...spread out the 3 row saddles with a pair of Channel Lock pliers, etc....again, pretty crude but it's been done plenty of times.

2)Get new repro brackets and weld/rivet/bolt them in place of your old 3 row brackets

3)Get some original 4 row brackets and do the same as #1. I've also found some pretty cool 4 row bolt in brackets on older Toros (and maybe some other large body models)....held in with a single sheet metal bolt/screw. Used a pair the other day to hold an original 4 row radiator in a junk '70 Cutlass core support that had the original saddles removed. These are nice since they are factory pieces (thus they fit) and are easy to install/remove.

4)Drill out the spot welds holding your old 3 row saddles onto the bottom of the radiator support (2 spot welds per saddle). Then, cut each saddle in half and re-attach (weld/screw/rivet, etc) with a gap b/n them to allow enough space for the 4 row tank. Done this before and the car has been running for years...no problems whatsoever. This way saves you the time and $$ waiting on new brackets and once these "split" brackets are installed with the radiator you can't tell it's been done. For further savings you can cut your old rubber isolators in half and install each half in your newly cut 3-into-4 row metal saddles. Maybe glue them in place well so they don't get knocked out of place when dropping the radiator in.

OTHER:

>The brackets are factory spot welded onto the bottom of the radiator support....if you get up real close to the underside of the support you can see a couple small round "divots" where the spot welds are. You can weld on new/used brackets as well as bolt them on or even rivet them in place.

>"Wider"---you said this...in which direction do you mean "wider"? From end to end (L to R across the top) the 3 row radiators and 4 row radiators are the same width....at least from tank seam to tank seam since the tank seams are what sit in the saddles.

PICS BELOW OF A COUPLE 4 ROW BRACKETS:

70Post

Better post a pic of my 4 row top plate as well. That pinstriping on 2Blu442's top plate is pretty cool. With all the top plate and top-of-radiator metal surface these things do sort of beg for some custom striping, etc.

oldcutlass

What 70Post said is what I believed to be true, but was not sure.

brown7373

When I said wider, I meant wider front to back...the saddles (and top plate saddle) being longer might have been a better description.

70Post

Yes, in that regard the 4 row tanks are "wider".....and the brackets as well.

>Not sure on the hoses....check with an auto parts supply place as they may have books/catalogs showing hose end diameters so you can compare b/n car and radiator combos. Or just measure the 4 row tank hose outlet and inlet and compare to the hoses on your car or to your 3 row radiator.

brown7373

The Olds catalogs all list the hoses and say the upper and lower are for all, with no differencw for engine size.

yeahbuddy

I recently put in an all aluminum rad to replace my original and it fit perfectly without the cushions on the top plate. Is this a no-no? Dont yell too loud haha

2blu442, how much for that overflow tank?

70Post

Get an old bicycle inner tube and fashion some insulators...fairly thin and might help avoid metal-to-metal contact, rubbing, etc. Being real thin the tube material might not cause to much interference with the currently-nice fit.

2blu442

I knew someone was going to spot that This car was my daily driver in the early 1990's. Money was tight and when it started puking antifreeze out the overflow I used what I had. When I get around to restoring the car I'll use an NOS overflow bottle I picked up a few years back. John

Allan R

How much would it take to part company with it?

w-30dreamin

Your not the only one upgrading to 4 row cooling,I'm in the middle of this swap on my 71.
I have the 4 row top plate and lower 4 row saddles. Have removed the 3 row saddles from the core support.
Now I'm in the process of test fitting everything so I can mark where the new 4 row saddles need to be attached.
I've found my trans lines to be to long now so I need to get underneath and see if there is somewhere in the lines to make some slight bends to try and gain about an inch where they enter the radiator.
My Father-in-law told me he has a 110 volt spot welder I should try and use for the new saddles,I need to stop by his place to pick it up,get a look at it and see if it will work.

2blu442

Oops! Did I say that outloud? Allen, send me a PM or email since this is off topic of the thread. John

Allan R

My bad John, PM on the way

brown7373

I haven't started yet or compared the two radiators side by sid, so this is just theory, but I assume the lower saddles need to go in the same spot, unless the 4 row tanks are wider. The extra length of the saddle should extend toward the engine, right? I wouldn't expect there be any room to move the whole radiator forward, toward the bumper, unless the whole radfiator is radically different.

70Post

Been a bit of time since I did the last conversion on one of these but I'm pretty sure your thinking is correct as far as placement. Same spot, side to side, but the extra length of the 4 core brackets is towards the motor.

Could probably get you more exact measurements given some time.

W-27

I am amazed that nobody talks about the positioning of the saddles as the peak portion of each one must be places towards the inside not the outside or neither the bottom hose or drain **** will clear ( I know this because without a chassis manual I welded both in the opposite way and need to re-do but would love to see pictures of installed ones to see the exact positioning of them as the original 3 core ones are towards the front of the car. Please look at my pictures as this is the wrong and incorrect way to install them and learn from my mistake (in the process of fixing it just need to know side to side position (towards engine or radiator pictures would be great). It's a 68 442.