hinz57

I purchased and installed the Ralley Pack combo into my 72 supreme. Everything seems to be working, just not well. I bought it from The Parts Place but I assume all that sell this probably purchase from the same manufacturer. Anyhow the tach does read high as I've heard from people who operate these in their vehicle. My issue is with the needle jumping all around. It bobs up and down and does not read steady and smooth like a normal tach. Also the Temp gauge is pegged on "H" when the car is not hot. I guess that could be a defective sending unit or something. The fuel, oil pressure and clock seem to function normally. It is wired and grounded correctly. Is is just the nature of this overpriced after market crap or what? If I would have known my $500 could have been better spent elsewhere. Has anyone had trouble with this??

chuck

svnt442

I had an issue with my factory tach jumping around ujnder part throttle only. Turned out to be an issue witht he distributor. Ireplaced it and the issue was gone.
As far as the temp gauge being pegged all the time have you checked the sending unit to makse sure it is functioning properly?

z11375ss

When I added an MSD a while back I needed a resistor or something between the tach and the distributor. Otherwise the tach jumped around. Check MSD and see what they think.

Lady72nRob71

I added one of these kits and it all worked fine, sort of...
I found that the temp and oil gauge like to read a little high during normal conditions. My tach had no issue, and i did not even use the costly shielded cable they sell for high $.
You got it connected to the negative side of the coil with a 2A inline fuse? (Fuse is just for protection).

I assume you replaced the temp switch with a sender for gauges.
Where did you get it? The parts stores might have sold you the wrong one.
Do you have an ohm meter and IR thermometer? If so, these will aid in troubleshooting.
On my car with a stock replacement sending unit (borg warner WT203) the gauge top H line is 212*f. Middle line is 130 Ohms and 7.03V, temp is about 170*F, so I plan to add inline resistors to put the middle line at 190*F or so.


I heard somewhere that the BW senders are not that great, but not sure what else is out there...

hinz57

Thanks for the responses. Yes the tach is connected to the negative side of the coil. I used the sending units provided in the wiring kit from The Parts Place along with the gauges. I do have a volt/ohm meter not a IR temp. Do sending units vary with output voltage with regards to temp range or are they all the same?

Thanks

Chuck

Lady72nRob71

The sending unit ~should~ be correct since you got it from the PP.

The sending unit is just a resistor that changes resistance with temperature. they are not all the same, as resistances will differ by temperature by car maker.

A ballpark range for my 72 Olds is 100 Ohms at 200*F, 1000 Ohms at 60*F. I have the accurate data at home...
The voltages I listed ont he previous post was with the sender connected, key on, but engine off.

My car was actually running hot when I installed the rally pack. It had only a 2-core radiator, which was plugged up some, and a faulty fan clutch.

Since you bought their costly installation kit, they should stand by it completely if it does not work right. They cannot blame aftermarket senders... They are not very friendly to talk to, but at that price, they should help you. The nice guy there is Mike - ask for him. The owner of the place is the one you want to avoid.

hinz57

The sending units are the problem according to The Parts Place. They claim that the manufacturer of the units has changed their calibration of the sending units and is not the same as the old GM calibration. Thus the higher readings. Oh, and by the way "there is nothing they can do about it"! So if you're thinking of installing these along with the so-called upgraded sending units be aware you will have false high readings. Which in my opinion is not worth the price of the gauges.

Creativeindy

Nothing they can do about it my ****....They sold the product didn't they? Reguardless of who makes the individual part, if there going to sell it as a hole an a part of there kits, then IMO there liable for it's functioning like any other place who sells parts.

Hopefully you paid by Credit Card, and if so, I would do like I have any other vendor that has tried to screw me, and that is simply call and tell them to either replace the junk crap they sold/sent regardless of who is to blame (Them or the manufacturer of the sender unit) or expect a charge back by the end of business day and the rest of there junk in the mail within a few days after.

Business's hate charge backs as it cost them money...not sure what the fee is now when a company gets hit with one, but it's costly none the less and can't be good for business. I would then file a report with the BBB and see where that gets ya.

I hate companies that sell you crap and then try and say, it's so and so fault and were sorry but hey...deal with it.

Lady72nRob71

Well it looks like the COSTLY parts place sending units are the same as the cheap Borg warner units you can get at any parts store... The BW sender make the gauges read high also...

I think the parts place should let you return the senders for credit - tell them you found some good GM units that are accurate!

I think the gauges are okay overall, BUT the illumination needs fixing (look at the fixes in my signiture link).

The sending units I used for my 72 Cutlass:
BWD oil sensor - S769 $16
BWD temp sensor - WT203 $6.29
Oil sender elbow was from Fusick for a whopping 22 bucks. I used regular wire and a $2 fuse holder with 3A fuse for tach.

Yes the temp and oil readings are high, so these are prolly the ones the parts place put in their $110 "installation kit".

The only way to get these gauges accurate with the new BW senders are to add a resistor in series with the sender.
I like to calibrate the gauge so the middle temp line is on the thermostat temp (180* in my case...)
The middle line should be 130 Ohms. To test your gauge, get a 130 ohm, 1/2W resistor and connect one side to ground and the other side to the temp sender wire (removed from block sending unit). Resistors can be had at Radio shack, Frys, or other electronics supply places.

Actual test data can be had here:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...html#post98959

hinz57

okay I think I understand how to test the gauge. Disconnect the wire from the sending unit and connect a 130 ohm 1/2 watt resistor to that wire and the other end of the resistor to ground, turn the ignition on and the gauge should read somewhere in the middle? If it is in the middle is that the actual resistor I want to use between the sending unit and the gauge? Am I to assume that the resistor reduces the DC current by 1/2 a watt?

chuck

hinz57

Radio Shack did not have a 130 ohm resistor only 100 and then 150. They had 68 ohm resistors so I strung two together. You can do that right? Giving you 136 ohms. Or not? Seems like it didn't work because it did not even move the needle to 1/4.

hinz57

Never mind I used only a 68 ohm resistor and had a 3/4 reading on the temp gauge. So I guess I answered my own question. Apparently the Parts Place sending units are different from the Borg Warner since the 134 ohms on Rob's chart is center line with the same Parts Place ralley gauges. Looks as if my center line will be closer to 100 ohms.

Lady72nRob71

Okay, so I did what you did and got the same needle deflection - almost 1/4.
Now take ONE 68 Ohm and use it only - you should get almost to 3/4 scale.
The resistors act quite a bit different than the sending unit, but the resistors are just to see if your gauge itself works...
75 Ohm puts my gauge almost in the middle.

If this happens, your gauge is working fine.
If you decide to keep your parts place sender, you will need to calibrate your gauge to it. I will not have that data.
You will need an IR thermometer to do this though. If you have one, I will walk you through the process.

How long does it take for the temp gauge to rise to the hottest, when the car is started cold? If it is always pegged high, then the sender defective.

hinz57

I do not have an IR thermometer, but can go to Harbor Freight tomarrow and get one. Yes I did read 3/4 with only one 68 ohm resistor. The gauge takes a few minutes to reach half way betweem the 3/4 and the "H" mark and the resistance changes as the engine gets hotter so I know the gauge and the sending unit work. As you say they are just not calibrated to one another. That is the part that I need help with....Thanks a bunch.

hinz57

I have read that the IR thermometer isn't necessarily that accurate. The coolant inside isn't the same as the outside of the engine.

Lady72nRob71

Sounds like your gauge is working fine.
I posted the cal procedure in the profiling post below.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...html#post99155

The resistance will increase as the engine cools.
You will be measuring on the manifold, right next to the factory temp sender. (Yes, the radiator will be cooler than the engine itself as it cools faster.)

Hope this helps!

My442

American Autowire has senders that have the correct resistance for these gauges.

I used the tempreture sender unit on my Rally Pack, and it reads correctly.

The 1/4 hash mark on the temp gauge is 180 degrees.

hinz57

I would expect normal operating temp to be in the middle of the gauge, not on the first hash mark. However, at least that isn't near the "H" line like the one from "The Parts Place".

Thanks for the info...

Chuck

jensenracing77

i had 3 cars with factory temp gauges that read just a needle width past the first hash mark for normal operating temp. 2 of those had the original sending unit and the other had an auto zone sending unit (don't know who made it). they all had the same reading.

hinz57

Well I sent enough nasty e-mails to The Parts Place that they have offered to take them back. I would rather find a solution to not only the temp gauge but the high readings I also have on the oil pressure gauge. Don't really want to yank it all out and hastle with sending it all back, but it would certainly serve them right. OPG says they have no problem with their rally gauges and sending units, but they also charge $100 more.

Lady72nRob71

OPG often runs free shipping deals, so it would be more like $90 more...
OPG has a good return policy. If they cannot resolve a problem you are having, they will take it back easily (at least that happened to me...)
Hope you get this straightened out soon.

hinz57

okay issue resolved. I purchased the OPG sending units and installed them and guess what? They work perfectly! The funny thing is OPG purchases the Rally Gauges from The Parts Place and resells them. The only reason I went with The Parts Place was $100 less in price. I've sent back the sending units to The Parts Place so we'll see what they do. Anyway had a great experience in dealing with this issue from OPG. They went out of their way in researching this issue and were confident their units would work properly, and they do. Not from AC/Delco!

So everything is working as it should except the tach needle jumping up and down, which was my original post!

Yellowstatue

If you have points ignition maybe the condenser is defective... and there should be another condenser on the coil bracket to the coil terminal that the tach feeds from (would be giving voltage spikes)... When my car was new the temp guage sat at one needle width past the first hash mark...'68 M20

Lady72nRob71

GREAT!!
So where are your temp and oil gauge needle positions at normal operating temp at idle? Are there any markings on the sending units to hint at who made them?
That really sux at how the parts place charged so much for those little stinkers that did not even work with their gauges...

hinz57

The temp gauges needle sits right in the middle and the oil pressure I believe sits a little more than halfway between the "L" mark and the center line. At 60 mph it sits a little over the center hash mark.

OPG uses Warren Engineering for the oil pressure units and Muscel Car Mike (muscelcarmike.com) for the temp units. They said that the oil pressure units are specifically for the Rally Gauges, not some generic multi application unit that The Parts Place claims AC/Delco makes. OPG also says that the temp senders come in a GM box with a GM part number, but they sent it to me in a plastic bag with their own part number on it. It doesn't really have any markings on it except a number "6" engraved on the hexagonal portion right above where it screws in.

#1CutlassSupreme

Another victim of the The Parts Place's shoddy customer service! Sorry to hear about your experience my friend...I feel your pain.

1971 442 convert

So everything is working as it should except the tach needle jumping up and down, which was my original post!


Did you ever get this issue resolved?

rustyroger

Swinging tacho needles can be an indication the coil is about to go bad, that used to be the case on the poor quality Lucas ignition systems British cars were mostly fitted with when we used to make cars.

pcard

Has anyone found the cause and a resolution for the Tach jumping around?

I know this is an older thread, but I am about to purchase the RP kit from OPG (unless someone has an original set they want to sell???).

Thanks, Peter

1971 442 convert

Here is how my mech fixed mine.

Diode part # 1N4004 (Motorola) installed under dash in series with the wire going to the coil.
Negative silver band must be pointing to the tach.

Sorry hope this is clear?

pcard

Thanks!!!

65Delta

I'm in the process of installing the Rally Pac gauges on my '69 and am running into the exact same issue with the tachometer. When running the tach bounces at least +- 200 RPM and, when you shut the car off, the tach pegs at redline before dropping to 0 (car shuts off normally). I do have a Pertronix Ignitor in place of the points & condenser but I haven't found anything indicating the Pertronix would cause an issue.

I appreciate you posting what resolved the issue on your tach. I'm trying to wrap my brain around the function of the rectifier diode on the waveform being fed to the tach by the - coil lead. Regardless it seems like I have nothing to lose by trying the 1N4004 diode

65Delta

Problem solved! I ended up making a low band pass filter to clean up the tach signal. I was aiming for a 100Hz threshold but ended up at 107Hz using the parts Radio Shack had on hand.

65Delta

I had to tune the low band pass filter as the tach was cutting out at 2,000RPM. Retargeted 256Hz and took her for another test drive. Tach works great now

442 Lebanon

Thank you for this very helpful hint. I bought the Motorola diode from eBay and installed it as per your recommendation, a one-minute job. It worked perfectly and the jumping needle is now giving a steady reading. Very cheap and effective solution.